Multiple Dwelling Unit question (1 Viewer)

barfo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 18, 2006
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Mom lives in a retirement home and they have a rack of 311 receivers, each tuned to a specific DN channel. Each resident receives the 73 channel package on their TV. There is no STB, residents simply change channels like they would if they subscribed to analog cable. It is actually quite a good package but Mom misses two of her favorite channels, LMN and FX. Retirement home management would be glad to add these channels and delete some other useless ones, but they say the private tech provider says they can't do this. I find this answer suspect, since some of the channels on the package are actually from a higher subscription package than LMN and FX are part of. My question: If management simply changed the channel on two of the receivers to LMN and FX, do you think they would get the desired channels?
 

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,351
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Dorchester, TX.
Commercial accounts don't buy the same packages that consumers do. What you are looking at is a commercial headend system converting the DISH channels to TV or cable frequencies.
 

TimberWolf

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 7, 2010
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PA
I've seen management mess with these systems. Its not pretty. Half the recs end up on the same channel or on a channel they are not subscribed to.
If enough people in the home are interested, they may be able to get management to change the programming package
 

Tyralak

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Oct 21, 2003
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Secure, Undisclosed Location
This is called a SMATV system. I maintain these and other types of commercial systems. The channels are determined by the contract the complex signed with the provider. These contracts run several years, and are either re-signed or re-negotiated at the end of the contract. So, if the complex goes in and changes the channels, they could be in breach of contract. Not to mention potentially screwing up the system.
 

barfo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 18, 2006
63
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Thanks for the informative replies. Management and maintenance have been given authorization to reboot and retune a receiver when it gets stuck, as happens on occasion like after a power spike. Is each receiver electronically authorized to receive only one channel? If they are set to receive a wide range of channels, I would ask management to simply change a useless channel to FX or whatever on a temporary basis just to prove that it can be easily done. Management is being told by the provider that these channels cannot be received, but management (and yours truly) thinks this is BS. Management is willing to pay extra for an enhanced package, as the missing channels stop people from switching from the cable company to their in house system.
 

TG2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 7, 2011
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Viginia
If managment has been given the instructions on reboot & retune .. then I can't see where it would harm anything to "accidentally" reboot and retune one to a different channel to see if it does what you & they think that it might do. At the worst they call the company .. "hey we followed your instrcutions but this one unit isn't responding" ... tech comes on site .. "hey its not right it should be on 'x'" ... Oh.. that was Peter... damn it he always makes mistakes.. ..... etc..

or reboot and retune if it doesn't work like they instructed.. either way if their instructions don't account for some loose nut behind the clicker, anything *could* have happened... :)

And of course.. it becomes the reason that some of these companies really shouldn't be so restrictive ... if the provision of channels doesn't include changing them without a big hullabaloo then they are putting themselves on thin ice with a customer that finally tells them to F off and in comes the next provider.. that might also be a tactic to take with this company... "look if you're not going to be flexible, then we WILL replace you, the previous administration didn't know jack about how you operated, and you didn't exactly set out to be as helpful as you could've been so we will not keep you".. etc..
 

TimberWolf

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 7, 2010
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Every rec onsite should be authorized for all the channels in the package they are subscribed to. There may be more channels in the package than the number of recs.'
If that is the case, management can tune the recs to any channel in their package they want.
 

sA :: Shaggy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 18, 2005
1,102
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5701 S Santa Fe Dr
Yes, the receivers do get all the channels that the site is paying for. make sure you are not in a favorites list which would be why only 1 channel would be showing up. But do keep in mind what was said before. The commercial packages and residential packages are totally different. espn is not part of the basic package for example.

Also remember if you do not have a contract to show those channels you are in breach of contract and can get hit with re-distribution issues.

Now all that said if the system you are talking about is a 73 channel system. THEN IT AINT MINE, so have fun.

tip: Put electrical tape over the receivers you don't want to change. No fun changing all the channels and trying to figure out how to put them back.
 

Claude Greiner

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
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What you need to do is 3 things...

#1 Determine if all the receivers can see both 110 and 119. Since these receivers always stay on the same channel, sometimes they are wired to see only 119, and other times wired only to see 110. If the receivers are connected to a switch to see both satellites, then there is some flexability in moving channels around.

If the some receivers are wired to only see 119, or only see 110, then before you switch channels around you need to make sure the channel your going to change on the receiver is on the satellite its wired for.

Lets say the receiver is on 119 for USA, and you want to switch it to DYI which is on 110, it may not be possible, unless you want to dig into the wiring in the rack and change the satellite input to the other satellite.

#2 Obtain a copy of the bill, and look at the packages. The channel may already be included as part of the package, and it may be as simple as changing a channel on the receiver.

If the reciever can tune in the channel, then its included as part of the package. There would be no way to breach the contract, because the receivers are authorized for all the channels in the package.

For example, you could subscribe to HBO and the receivers would be authorized for all 8 or 9 channels. However since its a headend system, you may only have 1 HBO channel on the system. You could easily add another receiver and modulator and get another HBO channel added to the system at no additional monthly cost. Or you could change one of the channels in the rack to a different channel to add a second HBO channel.

The only thing you cannot mess with is ESPN, as your required to show all the ESPN channels that you pay. For example, there is an ESPN package with 1 channel and an ESPN package with 5 channels. The package with 5 channels is less money then the package with 1 channel, however the contract that Dish has with ESPN is that if you take the discount for the 5 channel package, the headend must show all 5 ESPN channels.

#3 It could be as easy as changing the channel on the receiver, if the programming is part of the package. If not, you need to fill out the add change form and fax it into Dish.

Finally, to ansewer your question LMN is not part of any bulk packages unless they have Top200 as a core programming package which is very unlikely. Its probably too expensive to add Lifetime Movie Network.

It might be possible to add FX, however it will require "The Edge" package which is $.85 per drop. So if there is lets say 100 rooms in this nursing home, then its going to cost an extra $85 per month to have FX.

The tech provider was lying to you when he said it can't be done. This can be added, but does the nursing home want to pay more money per month, if the channels are not included with the package?

If the channels are that important to your mother, she can always get her own Dish account and put a receiver in her room and she can pay a seperate bill under a residential account.
 

barfo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 18, 2006
63
0
Thanks to everyone, and especially Claude, for some very useful info. I will pass this on to management, although I now see that it is all more complicated than I realized. The assisted living facilty has some kind of contract with a tech provider, and this contract includes the satellite package, telephone, and internet. Some of the cost is passed on to the residents on an optional basis. Mom gets all 3 for an extra $50 added to her rent. My strategy is to convince management that making a few extra channels available would be a money maker for them, because I know for a fact that over half of the 300 (?) room facilty sticks with the Time Warner full analogue service for $65 because they cannot live without a couple of channels. BTW, we tried a STB and top 200 which is an option at the facility, but Mom, like many seniors, simply had too much trouble keeping the TV on channel 3 while changing the channel on the STB.
 

SaltiDawg

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 1, 2004
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If managment has been given the instructions on reboot & retune .. then I can't see where it would harm anything to "accidentally" reboot and retune one to a different channel to see if it does what you & they think that it might do...
So, you think the OP's Mom gets to decide what channels should be available? I suppose after following your advice to break the Terms of Service Agreement or the Contract, "someone" will bitch about how screwed up Dish is....
 

TG2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 7, 2011
1,380
7
Viginia
BTW, we tried a STB and top 200 which is an option at the facility, but Mom, like many seniors, simply had too much trouble keeping the TV on channel 3 while changing the channel on the STB.
what about replacing the TV with an HDMI LCD Monitor .. then you have on / off / input ... no channels to change and no remote. They're a little more than a comprable LCD TV set (ie. 27inch Acer H274HLBMID $279 @1080p, or 249 for 32in TV @720p) but they'd do the trick .. my 22 inch LG works with a simple HDMI to DVI converter (don't forget to check monitor specs for HDCP compliance)


So, you think the OP's Mom gets to decide what channels should be available? I suppose after following your advice to break the Terms of Service Agreement or the Contract, "someone" will bitch about how screwed up Dish is....
That's right its all TG2's fault that someone decided to try what they were asking is possible... if you tell a customer it can't be done, and its a lie ... you damage your credibility with that customer.

As Claude explained it can be done, and now that the end users & management know it, have a way to do it themselves they can make that educated decision on what to do next. Now are you going to bitch at Claude for giving them instructions (and forms no less!) that could cause the Senior Home to violate their contract with that Tech/Company that installed the system? :eek:

And why not beat up the Little Old Lady while you're at it ... I mean she's the one that started it all right SD? She's the one that wants to be the dictator ... heavens forbid that the management had no problem with fulfilling a request from a member if it could be done, etc.. its gotta be that terrible TG2's fault .. lets all kill him instead of hitler.
 

Claude Greiner

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
13,225
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Detroit - The Paris of the Midwest
Thanks to everyone, and especially Claude, for some very useful info. I will pass this on to management, although I now see that it is all more complicated than I realized. The assisted living facilty has some kind of contract with a tech provider, and this contract includes the satellite package, telephone, and internet. Some of the cost is passed on to the residents on an optional basis. Mom gets all 3 for an extra $50 added to her rent. My strategy is to convince management that making a few extra channels available would be a money maker for them, because I know for a fact that over half of the 300 (?) room facilty sticks with the Time Warner full analogue service for $65 because they cannot live without a couple of channels. BTW, we tried a STB and top 200 which is an option at the facility, but Mom, like many seniors, simply had too much trouble keeping the TV on channel 3 while changing the channel on the STB.

Ahh, sounds like you have a DISH Network Retailer that is a Private cable Operator and bills each one of the residents individually. That sounds like why the retailer who has set this up is being a little less cooperative in changing the lineup, as he would have the absorb the $.85 cent per drop price increase, and then pass it back to the residents by raising everyones bills.

The thing that sucks about these types of deals is that the nursing home is made the deal where they allow this system to be installed and bill the residents because its no cost to them.

It would be far cheaper in the long run to have the nursing home to pay 1 bill each month for the Dish and the Internet, and then just increase the rent themselves. Depending on what you subscribe to they could get the TV down to about $12 per resident, and the Internet down to around $5. Phone you could take care with a $400 per month PRI with a few hundred DID numbers and a small phone system.
 

SaltiDawg

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 1, 2004
1,004
3
That's right its all TG2's fault that someone decided to try what they were asking is possible... if you tell a customer it can't be done, and its a lie ... you damage your credibility with that customer.
Oh for Chrissake. I quoted you as saying, "If managment has been given the instructions on reboot & retune .. then I can't see where it would harm anything to "accidentally" reboot and retune one to a different channel to see if it does what you & they think that it might do. At the worst they call the company .. "hey we followed your instrcutions but this one unit isn't responding" ... tech comes on site .. "hey its not right it should be on 'x'" ... Oh.. that was Peter... damn it he always makes mistakes.. ..... etc.. " and commented about that. You came here a few months ago and do nothing but whine and whine and whine about Dish ... frequently taking pages to do it and often demonstrating a lack of understanding of some of the issues.
 

TG2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 7, 2011
1,380
7
Viginia
Oh for Chrissake.
:eek:
yeah.. that's about all that's right..

I suggest the OP try it to see if it will work.. I don't tell him to leave it that way.. and I even suggest a cover-up for if they have to call in the tech (... oh that peter guy ... or call him joe-bob or "tom" if that makes you happy)

Beyond that.. you missed that the OP checked with building management.. and *they* were ok with changing channels for a resident ... so what the hell? And again I don't see you busting Claude's balls for posting to break any contract... it seemed this isn't a Nursing Home to Dish but nursing home to some 3rd party provider contract issue..

So why be one of the cadre posting negatively about "a new guy". I understand the cadre.. but I won't stand for what they are.

As for post length.. some people get it ... some people don't The people that don't would post question after question after question ... or snipe ... or cadre that get it but stand above us... so in trying to nip both sides' arguments in the bud... yeah I might post longer than some..

And as for whine ... you tell me one thing dish does right... 100% of the time (90% of the time? 80?), for the money people pay them..


  • Signals from the sky? - Audio drop outs that they didn't take seriously for how many days?
  • Reported audio problems from an upstream that dish wouldn't take and file an engineering report for ... so that Dish's people could talk to Epix's people?
  • Video drop outs documented on YouTube that happen often for some over in CA.. and its taken dish how long to track that down?
  • Dish Remote Access, and Dish Online? do you really want to go there?
It seems the only thing dish is good at, is charging money, and even there they've failed for some users posting here and at DishSupport.com

whups too many notes ... you'll probably be mad at me for this post too..
 

barfo

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 18, 2006
63
0
Ahh, sounds like you have a DISH Network Retailer that is a Private cable Operator and bills each one of the residents individually. That sounds like why the retailer who has set this up is being a little less cooperative in changing the lineup, as he would have the absorb the $.85 cent per drop price increase, and then pass it back to the residents by raising everyones bills.

The thing that sucks about these types of deals is that the nursing home is made the deal where they allow this system to be installed and bill the residents because its no cost to them.

It would be far cheaper in the long run to have the nursing home to pay 1 bill each month for the Dish and the Internet, and then just increase the rent themselves. Depending on what you subscribe to they could get the TV down to about $12 per resident, and the Internet down to around $5. Phone you could take care with a $400 per month PRI with a few hundred DID numbers and a small phone system.

The new young and ambitious associate director of the facility is actually having difficulty getting clarification about the nature of the contract. I suspect that it is a package contract along the line of what you suggest above, but I don't know. But thanks to everyone's comments, we now know that instead of being told that it can't be done, he should have been told that it can be done, but it will cost you a little more. Whether or not he decides to pursue this is up to him. BTW, if Claude or anyone reading this would like to contact management to make a competitive proposal you are welcome to pm me and I will pass the info along. The assisted living facility is in the northern Cincinnati area.
 

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