My FIOS TV vs. DISH Compare

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dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
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How is the signal transmitted from the Fiber node to each box?

is it standard coax?

can you use the regular cable tv splitters?
Went to the Verizon Webby and wikipedia..FiOS is described as Fiber To The premises...Or FTTP......In the illustartions I saw there appeared to be a interface box installed by Verizon..I assume this is the point where the Fiber intefaces with the existing coaxial wiring in the home...I don't know for sure..I haven't been able to track that part down..Any FiOS subs out there can chime in please...I have this question...when your FiOS was installed did the telco tech run fiber through your home or did the system connect to the interior wiring in your home?...
 
AllieVi

AllieVi

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Sep 11, 2003
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Temecula, CA (area)
Went to the Verizon Webby and wikipedia..FiOS is described as Fiber To The premises...Or FTTP......In the illustartions I saw there appeared to be a interface box installed by Verizon..I assume this is the point where the Fiber intefaces with the existing coaxial wiring in the home...I don't know for sure..I haven't been able to track that part down..Any FiOS subs out there can chime in please...I have this question...when your FiOS was installed did the telco tech run fiber through your home or did the system connect to the interior wiring in your home?...
Your suspicion is correct. Inside the house, it's standard coaxial cable (for TV) and ethernet (for networking/Internet).

The interface box you describe is mounted on your house and does the necessary conversion from fiber to copper.

Verizon touts FTTP because some other companies don't actually bring fiber all the way to the house. Instead, they bring it to a neighborhood terminal and then go with copper from there to the house.
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

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Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
Cherrypicking is fine, until it affects you.

The idea that cable (and by the way the tech works, sat too) must provide service to an entire area while the phone companies can waltz in and just give service to who they want is wrong. The cost to deploy FIOS is no greater than it was to do cable Internet. Don't buy the phone company BS that they need special help!

Imagine how many people might be willing to pay for the service, but they live in an area with too many "poor" people. There are all sorts of people I know of that have rennovated old downtown homes and can afford to pay for the top tier of services. However, when you look at the downtown area, there are a lot of "poor" people as well. So those customers that live there AND can pay for the service get passed up.

The other part of this is that the "poor" people STAY poor. Without the compitition from the phone company, the cable company will keep their rates high.

In the end, the person to blame isn't the phone company. Blame the lawmakers that bought the BS and changed the laws so the phone company could get away with this.
jUst like anything we "want", FiOS is NOT an entitlement..I cannot get it right now..Does that mean I have the right to seek the use of the courts to make my local phone company provide a service that that company had not intended for me to obtain?
I don't know what you refer to when you say satellite has to provide service to all..But I will tell you this, if my employer becomes aware that a potential customer(sale) resides in a high crime area, we will decline the business..

"The cost to deploy FiOS is no greater than it was to do cable Internet." Really..Where's your data to support that claim?...BTW this nothing to do with cable internet as a standalone product..
I can walk right across the street and get the straight dope on thnat..And I will tell you right off that my friend across the street is a manager for Sprint and all he works on is fiber. He has told what is costs just to find and repair and excavation cut....Try $100,000. That's the average cost....Now do want to me to ask him which is more expensive, FOC or.500/.750 single aluminum conductor transmission cable for CATV? Or do you want to just back off that assertion about the costs being the same?...
So now that we have that out of the way. I would like to know why it is you think that a business must be compelled to attempt to sell it's wares in an area where there is little potential customer base?
Sounds to me like you have a bone to pick with the phone companies.....I politely request we do not discuss your griveances with telcos.
If one chooses to live in an economically challenged part of town and they people of means that is their choice..The business has no choice but to research the market and determine whether a cross section of the market is within their target deomgraphic, or not.. I don't think it is very prudent for a business to look at the scenario you put forth and say "Oops, there's a upper middle class guy who renovated a town house down on Cherry Street that wants FiOS, let's spend a few hundred thousand to wire the whole neighborhood"..
Whether the cable company in a given area has competition or not isn't going to change the economic status of anyone..Quite frankly people living on shoestring budgets should be doing a better job prioritizing their spending..That means pay tv for most of these people is a frill.
The phone company isn't "getting away" with anything...Look at it from the other angle. It would be then safe to say that the cable companies allowed this to happen to them..They allowed the politicians to tell them how to do business..I would be willing to wager a few bucks that if cable tv wanted to with it's ultra powerful lobby in DC get some rules changed and perhaps get the same rules as the telcos, they could do just that...
Remember one important item..The telcos have to provide the availability of their service to EVERY home in their service areas..Cable tv only has to go where there is a certain home density..In the case of the county I live in Time Warner must provide cable plant whenver the density of homes reaches 18 houses per one mile of roadway....That still leaves 40% of the county uncabled. Imagine the furor if the cable co's had to play by the same rules that the telcos do....I am not sure but I would imagine the govt allowed the exception because the telco system already covers so much territory....
 
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dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
554
suburbia
Cable has done their own cherry picking. I have known people that wanted cable, but couldn't get it. They weren't in an area with enough people to make it worth it to the cable companies to run the cable. They would only do it if the individuals were willing to pay the full cost of running the cable to them. When more developments were built nearby, then Comcast would run the cable to them. These weren't people in the middle of nowhere, just not in a dense enough area for Comcast. I don't see how it is any different with what FIOS is doing. I don't like what is happening, but I can't say one is worse than the other. Satellite doesn't care, as they don't have to run cables or fiber so it doesn't matter where the person lives, as long as they will pay the bill.

Yes they do it all the time...Cable co's negotiate density to require service when the franchise agreement is renewed..In my county the old agreement was 35 houses per mile..The latest agreement was set at 18 houses per mile of roadway..That still leaves about 40% of the county without cable tv...The phone company can't do that...
 
scooby2

scooby2

Pub Member / Supporter
Jun 25, 2005
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Chicago, IL
Yes they do it all the time...Cable co's negotiate density to require service when the franchise agreement is renewed..In my county the old agreement was 35 houses per mile..The latest agreement was set at 18 houses per mile of roadway..That still leaves about 40% of the county without cable tv...The phone company can't do that...
You are very correct. A good friend has a house that is about 700 ft off the main road. He has phone and electric service but cable wants $40,000 to make a run to his house. Yes, $40,000 so thus he will most likely never get cable. No Fios as its an AT&T area but I bet AT&T would hook him up when they roll out Uverse there.
 
I

ItsMyLife

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Jan 1, 2007
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With FIOS... do you have to have a dedicated box for every TV or do they have dual mode boxes like Dish that control 2 TVs?

This is one feature I love... especially with the DVR content being able to be view on any of two TVs.

And for the guy who switched to Comcast... good luck... I just switched off of them to E* (even with FIOS TV due later this year) as I couldn't stand to give them one more cent of my money due to their incompetence and unethical behavior. Not to mention ridiculous pricing.
 
dishcomm

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,388
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suburbia
You are very correct. A good friend has a house that is about 700 ft off the main road. He has phone and electric service but cable wants $40,000 to make a run to his house. Yes, $40,000 so thus he will most likely never get cable. No Fios as its an AT&T area but I bet AT&T would hook him up when they roll out Uverse there.

Yes, but the "its' not fair" and the "I am entitled to that" people would beg to differ...
 
S

SummitAdvantageRetailer

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 11, 2004
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East Coast
Nice review. It looks like FIOS is a good solution for HD and SD fans alike as their picture quality as of now is great. Only if their receivers had the kind of technology that DISH has, you'd have great features to go with the great picture quality.

My neighborhood is getting FIOS installed right now and I'll probably just get their internet service and maybe test their TV service, too, if they have a special trial offer with no obligation. I get HD locals fine with an OTA antenna (should be equal or better than FIOS since it's OTA) plus HD channels on DISH are acceptable (not great, but OK) so it'll take a lot for me to switch. Now I hear FIOS has some Voom channels or are planning to carry them. So Voom fans shouldn't wait too long before FIOS carries 'em. Again, not sure if they already carry it since that info's a few months old.

Lastly, it's interesting how FIOS is carrying SportsNet Philly and The Weather Channel's "true" Local on the 8's. I thought Comcast was able to keep SportsNet Philly exclusive to themselves through some legal "loophole" that wasn't closed even with the recent satellite law regulations?
 
S

Sarang

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 30, 2005
315
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Wow I wish we could get FioS. We're in an AT&T area though I could be wrong and it could be everyone.
My only big issue with U-Verse vs. FioS is the idiots at AT&T are carrying TV Japan instead of MBC with FioS which I want instead. I'm a big fan of MBC because of "Music Camp" and I've heard TV Japan is a giant pos for a channel. Wishing for an American version of TV Tokyo here!
Actually now that I think about it maybe two big issues. Does U-Verse do FTTP? If not then they're idiots because once people end up with two or three HDTV's in the home they're going to need around 80 MBps to really cover that spread. The reason why I say so big a number is I predict some HD channels will start broadcasting some programming in 1080p and NO I'm not joking.
Btw in terms of MBC maybe someone else needs to contact www.itvn.org/ and suggest they pick up MBC, SBS and KBS World at least so they can steal all the Korean business Dish and DirecTV are getting and make fortune while they're at it. HINT, HINT, Summit. I'm surprised ITVN hasn't taken initiative already and done it. I'm about to contact ImaginAsian and suggest they do this to get their service easily covered to the whole U.S., well everyone with BB or BB capabilities in this country which is still a better # than they have now even if only a fraction of people get them.
 
psumattDE

psumattDE

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 2, 2006
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Wilmington, DE
Nice review. It looks like FIOS is a good solution for HD and SD fans alike as their picture quality as of now is great. Only if their receivers had the kind of technology that DISH has, you'd have great features to go with the great picture quality.

Lastly, it's interesting how FIOS is carrying SportsNet Philly and The Weather Channel's "true" Local on the 8's. I thought Comcast was able to keep SportsNet Philly exclusive to themselves through some legal "loophole" that wasn't closed even with the recent satellite law regulations?

VZ signed a deal with Comcast and installed their own fiber link to the Wachovia Center where Sportsnet Philly is originated.

VZ also came out with a press release yesterday that they are completely revamping the interactive guide - so that's pretty exciting.

http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2007/verizon-unveils-next.html

No VOOM channels on VZ yet - not sure if they talked about them during the recent negotiations with Rainbow Media.
 
R

rmr_in_dfw

Member
Feb 10, 2006
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I'm a recent FIOS TV Sub

First let me say, I was quite glad to ditch my Comcast, then recently Time Warner cable modem service for FIOS internet. That 2MB upload is nice for working from home & uploading photos. On to the TV service...

I've had it a week. HD picture is great, SD's seem slightly better than Dish - not great, but certainly no worse, at least on the channels I watch. I have 1 SD STB and 1 HD STB, with FIOS Premium and HD for $50/mth plus tax. It is most equivalent I think to Dish HD Silver + Locals as far as channel lineup, which is more expensive per month. The interface isn't as good, yet is being worked on as others note. I do like the weather & traffic widgets.

As far as hookups, I will explain. The fiber cable comes to a box on the side of your house. From there the fiber is converted to Ethernet for internet (and goes to a router in my office) and Coax for TV. So, as long as your cables are good, they can use existing wiring for TV, as they did in my house. One thing to keep in mind, the internet router has a Coax connection. It just needs to be connected to a Coax splitter. The STB's get IP addresses, and get the guide data and do VOD via IP. For whoever aksed, if you don't use an STB you can get locals and public access channels 2-49 just by hooking directly to a TV. Also, on the HD box, both HD and SD outputs are active. I have the SD output feeding a 15" TV through the wall in my workout room. So far I am happy and plan to cancel Dish this week. I have really no complaints with Dish, but a comparable package will cost more $$$ and I'd need a new Dish on my roof to get all of the Dish HD channels, many of which I don't care about (Voom). I do miss the RF remote, but I recently got a Logitech Harmony anyway. Oh, and I do miss the on-screen Caller ID. My advice to Dish - if you wish to stay competitive, lose the upgrade fees on leasing new equipment and stop the nickle & diming, OTA guide data was free on my 811 without locals, but not on the 211 or 622 from what I've hear. Oh, and quit releasing buggy firmware!
 
Stargazer

Stargazer

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I The new price increase coming from Dish is bigger than any I ever paid with cable. I have lost channels and will be paying more. I have also had issues with installers and the billing department this past year. I am also tired of trying to communicate to csr's that don't understand basic English. I have found Comcast csr's all speak English well.


I have had the same issues with Dish Network this past year. They misunderstand you and stuff and that makes it even harder to get anything done. They will not do things for you to resolve issues like they used to. They are like puppets. I do not even want to get into the billing issues that I had with them.
 
Stargazer

Stargazer

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You are very correct. A good friend has a house that is about 700 ft off the main road. He has phone and electric service but cable wants $40,000 to make a run to his house. Yes, $40,000 so thus he will most likely never get cable. No Fios as its an AT&T area but I bet AT&T would hook him up when they roll out Uverse there.

WOW $40,000? It wouldn't cost that much to get electric or phone service run in there. That sounds very very rediculously high. The only thing the cable company uses from what I have seen around here is RG-6 coax (some places RG-59) on the poles and 700 foot of coax would cost $50-100 at the most. So they want to make about a $40,000 profit off of that? Wow they sure do not want your business. Even if a guy wire was to be used it still would not cost near that much. Ask them why it would cost $40,000. Call the public utility commission telling them how much they wanted to charge you for running coax cable only 700 feet. A pole costs $1,000 to set. I just can't see it adding up to $40,000.
 
GaryPen

GaryPen

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Supporting Founder
Wow I wish we could get FioS. We're in an AT&T area though I could be wrong and it could be everyone.
My only big issue with U-Verse vs. FioS is the idiots at AT&T are carrying TV Japan instead of MBC with FioS which I want instead. I'm a big fan of MBC because of "Music Camp" and I've heard TV Japan is a giant pos for a channel. Wishing for an American version of TV Tokyo here!
Actually, TVJapan is mostly NHK programming. That's about as far from POS as you can get. It's very high quality programming similar to BBC, CBC, or PBS.

However, if you like dopey game shows, idiotic video challenges, horrible Pop music, over-acted and silly "dramas" (and the poorly dubbed imports of even sillier Koreans dramas) and that sort of stuff, perhaps you should get a SlingBox or Sony LF server, and set it up in Japan or Korea. You can get ALL of the local programming, ranging from high-quality NHK (or its Korean eqvivilent) to all that Fuji, TBS, and the Japanese commercial programming.

Of course, there is quality programming on the commercial networks, in addition to all the goofy sh*t. (I enjoy some of it myself.) But, there is no way one can consider NHK a POS. A little dry, on occasion. But, not sh*t.

EDIT: I almost forgot! If you want more Korean programming. Simply set up an FTA system. There are TONS of Korean channels FOR FREE. MBS, KBS, CBS, etc.
 
psumattDE

psumattDE

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Feb 2, 2006
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Wilmington, DE
Well,
I officially broke up with DISH this morning. Man, are the cancellation reps difficult to deal with!

They'll be sending me the boxes to send back the receivers - but she also said I have to send back the LNB's!

There's no way in hell i'm getting on the roof of my 2 story house to remove these things. What's a boy to do?
 
Voyager6

Voyager6

*Cancelled*
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Nov 30, 2005
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Well,
I officially broke up with DISH this morning. Man, are the cancellation reps difficult to deal with!

They'll be sending me the boxes to send back the receivers - but she also said I have to send back the LNB's!

There's no way in hell i'm getting on the roof of my 2 story house to remove these things. What's a boy to do?
Tell them if they want 'em to send a tech to remove them. You don't have a ladder for roof access and are afraid of heights.:D
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

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WOW $40,000? It wouldn't cost that much to get electric or phone service run in there. That sounds very very rediculously high. The only thing the cable company uses from what I have seen around here is RG-6 coax (some places RG-59) on the poles and 700 foot of coax would cost $50-100 at the most.
RG-6 won't cut it nor will RG-11 at that distance. Plus, this is buried cable. They will need to tap directly into the main cable trunk line: someone will need to pay the surveyors when using public rights of way, a crew of cable techs are needed to trench and connect it to the the main line cable, equipment rental charges need to be paid, main line cable is expensive, conduit is eqully expensive, and trench needs to prepped for proper draining (layers of pebbles/stones), and inspected. Even so, 15k seems like a more reasonable charge. Unless the Cable Co is required to run cable to this subscriber, someone (the poor customer) will have to foot the bill for time, materials, overhead, and profit too.
 
S

sprintcarcrazy

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Dec 18, 2003
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Don't worry about the LNB's, tell them if they want them to come remove them. They may try to charge your account for them. I was on autopay and knew they would try some crap, so I cancelled my debit card so they couldn't try to rip me off. That was after 8 years with them, been back as a new customer for a year now, all is good so far.
 
K

KwestJones

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 8, 2006
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I have found Comcast csr's all speak English well.

Yeah...the Comcast Call Center is in Mt Laurel NJ....not Mt Kandahar, India.

I can't wait til we can get FIOS in South Jersey. We finally got all of the approvals through but they aren't putting it in my township yet. :mad:

I'm pretty pissed with the price increases from DISH but I will miss WorldSportHD with La Liga but I'd be gaining CWHD and Comcast Sportsnet HD...even tho the Sixers, Phillies, and Flyers all suck.

If you could give more info on the DVR. Is it Dual Tuner? Can you attach an OTA antenna like the 622 to record 3 things at one time? Does it have the PiP?
 
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