The company I install for just recently told us we had to start mounting our sw34's in the same area that we put our ground blocks and run our cable from the dish to the ground blocks (now 3) before the 34 switch...is it just me or does this sound kind of ridiculous? Can you imagine the pain in the you know what this is. Oh yeah...they also are claiming this is a requirement from dishnet. Anybody else hear of this...? Thanks
new grounding requirements?
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Maybe it's a procedure that is gradually being implimented at some companies. But I guess my real question is why not just use the 34 switch itself as the ground block...aren't you doing the exact same thing if you were to ground to the lugs on the switch itself instead of installing 3 ground blocks? Not to mention using less fittings would be less potential problems.
milt007 said:
Hi welcome to the Fourm!
Its because the 34 switch is not UL listed. Because it is not UL listed it dosent meet NEC requirements.. Witch would be a Failed QC... not to mention it could potentually rune the coustomers equipment.Thanks for the welcome! I guess I'm kind of confused. How would it make a diff if the case of the 34 switch was the junction point of ground wire to cable shield or the ground blocks were the junction point of ground wire to cable shield and then you have 3 short cable jumpers to the 34 switch anyway..? Is it just an arbitrary policy because of the lack of UL listing that makes the switch an unacceptable ground block? And how has lack of grounding ever risked the equipment.A good surge suppressor is far more of a protection for equipment than all the grounding in the world.I know this subject has been the topic of major debate for years, and I'm really not trying to sound like a 'know it all' but I have installed/serviced satellite systems for 20 years (thats right,even the old 12ft systems) and have always found the grounded systems far more prone to lightning/power surge damage than the ungrounded systems. It seems hard to find a definitive answer for some of these issues...!
milt007 I agree with you 100% Put up my first dish in 1982 no ground, now have 7 with no ground.
I have had 1 2700,3 7200s 1 921, 2 721s and never had a failure or replacement
all have Panamax surge prot. and NO ground
I have had 1 2700,3 7200s 1 921, 2 721s and never had a failure or replacement
all have Panamax surge prot. and NO ground
This is on page 123 of the 508 users manual:
The 921 manual just says to refer to the NEC code. Don't know if something has changed since that manual was written.
This groud point must be near where the cable enters the house. So many installations leave the multiswitch at the dish, and then add ground blocks at the house entry point.
The 921 manual just says to refer to the NEC code. Don't know if something has changed since that manual was written.
This groud point must be near where the cable enters the house. So many installations leave the multiswitch at the dish, and then add ground blocks at the house entry point.
More on grounding
Thanks for all the input. Another confusing thing is the way they are always changing the requirements. I know the laws of physics in regards to electrical engineering don't change.I'ld like to know who sits around and thinks this stuff up. For example the last post quoted the owners manual as specificly stating that a switch CAN take the place of a ground block. I just went to dishnets tech portal and looked at the posted owners/installation manuel for the same reciever and guess what...now it states that a multiswitch CANNOT be used as a ground block and the instructions are for ground blocks ONLY. By the way I had an Interesting experience a few years ago. After going through the SBCA classes I asked the instructor in private if grounding the system INCREASED or DECREASED the risk potential to the equipment, home, or occupants and guess what...he carefully looked around to make sure there wasn't anyone around.and admitted that it INCREASED risk. I was suprised that he was so honest.
Thanks for all the input. Another confusing thing is the way they are always changing the requirements. I know the laws of physics in regards to electrical engineering don't change.I'ld like to know who sits around and thinks this stuff up. For example the last post quoted the owners manual as specificly stating that a switch CAN take the place of a ground block. I just went to dishnets tech portal and looked at the posted owners/installation manuel for the same reciever and guess what...now it states that a multiswitch CANNOT be used as a ground block and the instructions are for ground blocks ONLY. By the way I had an Interesting experience a few years ago. After going through the SBCA classes I asked the instructor in private if grounding the system INCREASED or DECREASED the risk potential to the equipment, home, or occupants and guess what...he carefully looked around to make sure there wasn't anyone around.and admitted that it INCREASED risk. I was suprised that he was so honest.
That part is false.goaliebob99 said:
There's two things we're dealing with here. REality and LEGality.
Reality is that the DP34 works just fine for grounding. Last one I opened (last week), the manual STILL said it could be used. Other people have posted a version of the manual that says it's NOT legal for grounding. No proof as to which is newer, but like I said, the brand-new one from my distributor has the manual version that said it was OK.
Legality is that if some idiot inspector wants to frell with you, they probably can.
As for whether the installation SHOULD be grounded, the answer is an absolute YES. Ground the mast, and the coax shields (via block or switch).
That leads to the question of what's good ground and why. We argue that all the time.
My position is that grounding is mostly to act as a static drain. This helps prevent air ionization that can attract a lightning strike. Secondarily, IF the cables and ground line are on the shortest path to ground, it can help encourage a strike to follow that path. No, it does NOT carry the current, but can help direct the strike. I've seen it happen.
Electricians have a totally different view of grounding than us low-voltage guys do. Both are rght for different reasons.
milt007 said:
lightning capital of the world is about an hour from me, so we learn a bit more of this than some, as i get one of MY dishes (installs, not my house . . lol) hit on average every third year.
the purpose of the ground is to reduce the likelihood of collected static electricity at the dish, as that is what invites the cloud and the earth to commune so loudly. this from a guy who does rods on tall buildings all over florida, but he adds proviso's.
the nature of this ground working for reasons way beyond this forum and my lowly head is that the rod at its highest point needs to taper smoothly to a fairly sharp point, as it is the nature of this point to disperse all the excess electrons that invite the strike.
ergo, his opinion was that a grounded dish might actually be of benefit towards reduced possibility of lightning, that it definitely wouldn't increase chances of being hit, but that the only way it really would affect things to the benefit of the homeowner would be to top the dish with as nearly plumb a rod with a sharp point as E* could afford to place there.
which i don't see happening
he closed our lunch by picking up the check (making him a GREAT expert . . hehe) and by saying that the ludicrous rhetoric about the ground saving anything should a strike actually happen was just that, ludicrous . . .
Per dishnetwork as has been stated to us each year and is done in training for all new technicians. No switch assembly can be used as a ground device as our switchs are not approved for grounding, any switch in the system should be placed after the grounding as well. If lightning hits a system that is grounded at the switch and that structure catchs fire and the investigator determins that lightning hitting the dish caused the fire they are going to scrutinize that system from top to bottom and if the grounding is not done to code then that investigator has found the target of a lawsuit, the company and the person that installed it.
milt007 said:
Why three ground blocks?
Grounding is supposed to be done within a certain area of the penetration and within a certain area of the primary ground, as for the swtich location its supposed to be after the ground blocks and not before but its proximity to the ground blocks has never come up.
Well...there are 3 cables coming from the dish, right? According to the principle of switch after ground wouldn't you have to ground all 3 cables or is it ok to ground just one? Another thing that I can't figure out..( I'm sure there's a good explanation ) Is how this applies to dishpro twin and quad lnbs. Of course we all know that there is no magical way for these devices to know which sat the reciever wants to look at and thus there is an internal switch integral to these lnbs. The switch just happens to be inside rather than outside.This format of dish/switch is of course widely used where you only need to see 2 sats. How are you supposed to place the ground between these types of switches and the house...? and if you don't have to; then logic would dictate its not necessary, and the question would arise then why make us do it in the case of the external switches.
Ive been used to using dual ground blocks for several years now, havent seen a single ground block since 02.
Im not sure whats up with having to locate the switch next to the ground blocks, I dont recall anything like that coming from recent dishnetwork technical training unless its something that came along on a day I had off.
Im not sure whats up with having to locate the switch next to the ground blocks, I dont recall anything like that coming from recent dishnetwork technical training unless its something that came along on a day I had off.
I just do the install the way dish wants it. The QAS, FSM and IM are all happy. I don't put up with all the crap other techs do that take short cuts. The main thing do it thier way stay employed, take short cuts you could be looking for another job. Just my 2 cents
I just asked cause you are asking some pretty basic questions about grounding.
Yes you have to bond all cables from LNB and the dish it's self to the house ground.
I have not heard that Dish requires that a DP34 be placed after the ground block. I would suspect that the company you are installing for really just wants the DP34 in the house out of the weather. If you are doing a 3 tuner or 4 tuner install it will be no difference or even less cable to run. If it's only a 1 or 2 tuner install yeah you have to use a bit more cable.
Yes you have to bond all cables from LNB and the dish it's self to the house ground.
I have not heard that Dish requires that a DP34 be placed after the ground block. I would suspect that the company you are installing for really just wants the DP34 in the house out of the weather. If you are doing a 3 tuner or 4 tuner install it will be no difference or even less cable to run. If it's only a 1 or 2 tuner install yeah you have to use a bit more cable.
Dish does want all switches after the ground blocks now, its to cover them under the protection of grounding. The big draw back to this is if your installing a legacy switch such as a sw64 wich means that you have to run up to 6 coax lines all over the house potentialy. Its a pain to have to run alot of lines in a trench to, I'd hate to be a sub that has to buy his own coax.
from what i was told grounding doesnt do anything for a satellite system. if struck by lightning that # 10 wont do a thing other then melt,but it does have more to do with liability we had a tech get shocked so bad he couldnt work for over a month for him to come back to light duty. the insurance adjuster for that customer said that if the system had been grounded they would have covered the cost ,but we ended up paying for the damages --but weeks later come to find out it was and it was bad wires inthe customers home in combination with the ground caused the short/almost electrocution
