New home pre Dish wiring questions

[isptech]

I am building a new house and have a few questions about installing Dish Network. I am planning on prewiring the home before the installers arrive.

I am going to get the package that has locals on Sat @ 105. What satellites does dish normally pick up 110 & 119 ? With the local channel this should be a Superdish. Will the installers use a SW 34 ? I might want expand later and add another Switch for more receivers.

I am going to run RG 6 to all the locations in the house. I know that dual tuner receivers need 2 feeds back to the switch, all my boxes for the TV outlets have conduit down through the floor into the basement (unfinished). Can I use a diplexer to back feed to the tv set in the other room on one of the sat coaxes, or is it better to run 3 coaxes to the dual tuner boxes. Is there a disadvantage to using a diplexer ?

I am planning on running all RG-6 coaxes in the house to a center distribution panel which will be a 19" rack mount blank with F barrels bolted thru it. This should make moving TVs and receivers around much easier. Is there a problem with all of the coaxes being grounded together or is it better to have isolated grounds ?

Great forum

 

[ZandarKoad]

The limitations of diplexors are not significant enough to justify 3 RG6 cables to each location. I'd say run your dual RG6 to EVERY location where you MIGHT want a TV and you've covered all the bases. (don't forget your cat5e cable too though for phone and internet networking!)

Of course, in MY dream home I'm going to run four RG11 cables to two locations in every room. ...so I guess it's up to you! Sounds like your main panel setup is going to make the install a MONEY job for the lucky sub who gets it.

 

[token]

I would use speedwrap to each location actually (2 RG6, 2 Cat5e, 1 pair (2 wire) fiber). You don't have to have it all terminated right now, but you will need it soon enough. I just remodeled my 1940s home and ran speedwrap to everything, even the garage. Runs about $.80/foot off the shelf. Probably find it cheaper from an installer who will sell to you.

 

[Mike500]

I do a lot of new work and old work home theater, cable, dbs, and high speed network systems.

I like the open work method. Run all cables drilled through one inch holes through the top plate or the sill plate centered in the width of the stud and right next to it. If doing new work, use nail on electrical boxes, but cut off the nail holders along with the nails. Cut two 3/8" holes on one side of the box spaced 3 inches apart and 1/2 inch back from the lip. Using a 2 inch hole saw cut 2 inch holes at the top and bottom of the box where the cable entry holes reside. When installing the boxes in new work, drive 1-1/4" dry wall screws through the sides of the plastic boxes into the studs. The reason for this preparation will be clearly seen, if you will ever have to upgrade. Run all of the cables necessary. Apply clips or staples in the attic or in the basement to lightly tension the cables. It is important that the clips or staples are only in areas accessible after the walls and floors are finished. After installing all of the cables, tape the front of the box and all of the cables in place with blue masking tape.

If you never staple the cables onto the studs inside the wall, you will be able to take off the accessable staples and use the existing cables to pull new ones. The side of the studs will also direct push rods and guide any new cables you need to pull.

By preparing the box as stated above, a screwdriver can be used to remove the two dry wall screws holding it to the studs. Since the nail holding protrusions are gone, the box will also come out the front hole in the dry wall without making the hole larger. It can also be easily replaced.

Cat6 wiring is already here. I've seen articles in engineering trade journals on Cat7. You will eventually add and replace cables.

 

[Dish Dude]

they already make prefab boxes for that, check out arlington boxes, personally I would send a minimum of 6 RG 6 to your main location with 2 Cat 5e or above, you can run fiber if you want, I wouldn't take the cost on that as most things are going wireless anyways. than run 2 and 2 to the rest of your locations. This will cover you for almost anything. The extra feeds can be great for sending signals via whole house DVD player, whole house video, not including Dish channels but anything else.

 

[anik]

All that hacking on electrical boxes is unnecessary. All you really need is what's called a "mud ring" - think of it as the front of an electrical box with no sides or back. It's held in place by metal tabs (in the case of a metal ring) or plastic screw-down ears (in the case of a plastic one). You can get them at any electrical supply house (just go where the electricians go - look under something like "electrical equipment and supplies" in the yellow pages, it will usually be a place in an industrial park or other business/industrial district. In the old days a lot of these places wouldn't even sell to anyone that wasn't an electrician but in my neck of the woods, at least, those days are long gone, These places also will very often have good deals on things like cable, packages of RG-6 or RJ-45 connectors, crimping tools, etc. and very often they even beat out places like Home Depot or Menards in price. They also usually carry the snap in components where you can mix and match devices under one wall plate - for example you could have three RG-6 connectors, a phone jack, and a computer network jack (plus one blank for a spare) all under one plate that holds six devices.

The advantage of a "mud ring" is that since the back is wide open you can leave a little excess RG-6 in the wall and not make any sharp bends. Same with Cat5 or Cat6 wire, it's not supposed to have any sharp bends either. Mud rings are not legal for electrical wiring but they are fine for low voltage wiring. You can even put them in an existing wall (use a stud/electrical wire finder to avoid those, then a keyhole or short drywall saw to cut the proper size opening) and once the mud rings are in, assuming you put them reasonably close to the floor, you can use a drill extension and maybe a 3/4" or even 1" drill to drill down into the basement (this works better on inside walls than outside, because on an outside wall you're not only dealing with insulation in the wall but also you've very likely to drill into a support plate around the foundation of your home. Also measure first to see approximately where your hole will be coming down so you don't drill into an existing electrical wire, water or sewer pipe, air duct, etc.).

Some people prefer mud rings in new homes simply because you don't have to decide where to put them until the house is finished, the furniture is mostly in place and you know for certain (and have spouse approval of) where your entertainment center is going to go.

Also, depending on the type of floor supports used in the home there may be places where you can use nylon ty-wraps to support wires instead of staples. It depends on how the floor is constructed, but to be honest I hate using a staple on any kind of wire (other than electrical wires to lights and outlets, etc., where they are required by code) so I try to avoid it unless gravity is simply working against me and to not staple would mean that the wire would be under stress from its own weight.

Slightly OT Disclaimer: I am NOT an electrician. But electrical wiring is NOT that hard if you want to learn, and there are books and videos that can teach you. In many areas you are not required to be a licensed electrician to do your own work in your own home, as long as you follow the electrical codes. I know people who are scared to replace a wall switch, but I've added circuits (yes that means opening the dreaded circuit breaker panel - best you educate yourself as to where the live electricity is before doing that, and shut off the main breaker before mucking around in there). The key phrase here is "if you want to learn" - anyone who thinks they can learn to do electrical wiring in 15 minutes by reading one article is deluding themselves, but the key concepts really aren't that difficult and there are some very good books and videos available, and if you take the time to learn you will have a better idea what you are talking about when you go to "shop where the pros shop."

 

[rowemance]

Don't forget your phone lines.

 

[token]

Everyone above mentioned Cat5/6. You can run all your data and voice on that.

 

[Van]

Think carefully about where you want your tv's in each room to be at, for instance if you have a room that faces south then you will want to have the tv in a location thats not directly facing the southern and western windows to cut down on glare. Also your not always going to have the bedroom tv in the same location, same thing really goes for most rooms in the house so plan on multiple outlettes in each room. It is a good idea to to label each set of runs in the basement to make it easy to do your hoop up of the sat system and for troubleshooting. Idealy as others have stated you would want to run two rg-6 coax to each outlette along with your telco line, and while your at it you can run your wiring for your surround sound system as well. Unless you want to waste cash on pricey coax then all you need is standard RG-6 coax such as belden or vextra makes that is rated for DBS.

 

[angiodan]

Don't forget to run lines from your distribution closet to where you are going to place your dishes outside. Same goes with cable/phone trunk lines.

I ran 9 lines of RG6 to my sat/OTA antenna locations, and 2 RG6/2 Cat5e to where cable and phone comes into the house.

Mind you I also have a total of 18 drops of 2 RG6/2 Cat5e throughout the house, with 3 drops to my family room, and 3 drops to my equipment rack in my theater room. I also pulled another 4 more lines of RG6 to my theater room rack just to have. Not to mention HDTV bundles from my theater room to 5 other locations in the house to distribute HD, cat 5 lines for IR sensors, whole house audio speaker wires and controllers, security system and camera wiring; grand total of about 5300 feet of cable.

Let's just say, I went a little crazy! The Arlington boxes are what I used. They worked great. The other thing to think about is to drop lines in two different locations of the room, that way if you ever rearrange furniture, you'll still be good to go. Also, you may want to put drops up high, like 70-84" above the floor, if you ever go with a wall mount TV. I did that in our master bedroom, a small guest bedroom, and my patio area outside. Have the electricians put an electrical box up there as well.

You'll never be completely future proofed, but you'll be in pretty good shape. I was tempted to run the fiber as well, but I have enough space to walk in my attic to run that when the time comes. It was also pretty pricey!

 

[BrettTRay]

yea if you are ever thinking about adding a antenna for OTA HD then that extra coax drop in every outlet will come in handy. By the way, how much does single mode fiber usually cost per foot? What would this be used for? I don't know to much about the broadband or wireless computer/internet side of things yet.

 

[Texanmutt]

Ideally you can use one coax per TV using DP+ separators and diplexers can be used to back to tv2. Since you are going to use an wiring panel you should run 3 coax lines (one for each sat) from the panel to the outside of the house close to a grounding source (such as the main power panel). Using this setup they will need to use a DP+ 44 switch. If they attempt to charge you for it, then threaten to cancel the service. If you threaten to cancel, %99 of the time they will install the switch for free. You might what to run four lines in case you want to add a voom package.

 

[Mike500]

Over the past 30 years, I've seen frames, boxes and mud rings of all kinds come and go. Ive tried conduit. I prefer not to use it, unless it's required by code. But all are restrictive and results in damage, when changed or removed.

Using the "open work" method, I can easily remove, replace an add any new cabling I need, whenever and wherever I need it.

I've been doing rewires for over 30 years. Everytime I install a prewire, I thought I installed the state of the art. Wrong! It keeps on changing.

When I do retrofits, I often modify the wiring for easy future upgrades.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Texanmutt is low-balling, and thinking too narrowly. While diplexers and stuff work, you're always better prepared by having more wire!

The other guys are on the mark for new construction. Cable is cheap - be generous with it while you can!

Mud rings rule!

 

[Texanmutt]

Texanmutt is low-balling, and thinking too narrowly. While diplexers and stuff work, you're always better prepared by having more wire!

The other guys are on the mark for new construction. Cable is cheap - be generous with it while you can!

Mud rings rule!

LOL. No just thinking practically and from the stand point of experience. There is notthing wrong at all with using diplexers. He's not going to have to pay for it. If the tech tries to charge him for diplexers (for tv2 backfeeds), he should kick him out of the house.

While he's at it he should just run 10 coaxes to each room.

 

[isptech]

After running half of the Cat 5 cables, this evening 2 coaxes per box it is. What a PITA and this is new construction. I feel sorry for you installers. Drywall is up and the boxes and conduit are already installed. Drywallers missed one cutting out around one box however . I know a local dish installer / business and I will call him first, to see what he says.


Thanks for everyones help..

 

[angiodan]

That sucks, I think we all thought you were just at the framing stage. Drywall makes it tough.

Here are a couple of pics of my wiring fun. On the left my home run closet, on the right, where my main equipment room for my home theater was going to be.