Nissan LEAF

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yorktown

yorktown

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I thought the TOYOTA PRIUS was kinda ugly.

The new NISSAN LEAF make the PRIUS look pretty good.

Sure it's electric, but it's also fugly.
 

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yourbeliefs

yourbeliefs

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I prefer hybrids that don't look like hybrids. I'd pick a Camry Hybrid over a Prius based on looks alone.
 
yorktown

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It doesn't look anything like a lot(not alot) of other cars out there now.
WTF?
 
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Mr Tony

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smartcar is still one of the worst

or the "box on wheels"...honda pilot
 
yorktown

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Here's a couple of other fugly ones.

I've never seen these on the road.
 

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navychop

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Fugly is in the eye of the beholder? ;)
 
TNGTony

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I have a problem with the "no emissions" claim from Nissan. It's an outright lie. How about deffered emmissions? Or no emmisions fromt he car but 3 gigatons of carbon at the sulfurous coal burning power plant? :)

Sorry... electric cars are dirtier than any IC car in the same class. They just make the owner feel better.
 
yorktown

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I have a problem with the "no emissions" claim from Nissan. It's an outright lie. How about deffered emmissions? Or no emmisions fromt he car but 3 gigatons of carbon at the sulfurous coal burning power plant? :)

I'll agree that you have a problem. :)
 
Geronimo

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I would agree that saying an electric ora hybrid car hasd no emissions is misleading. Whether their total emissiions are higher or lower than a very efficient gas or diesel I just don't know.
 
TNGTony

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It is really dependent on how the local power is generated. Nuclear, gas, coal. All have some sort of emission. The additional demand of electric vehicles all having to be charged does have an impact. And this does not count the actual battery "recycling" and chemical disposal issue which is no small problem. Electric vehicles at best move the emissions to power plants. If they are nuclear the emissions are radioactive material that will be deadly for 10,000 years that must be safely disposed of for longer than current recorded human history.

I am not against electric vehicles, but advertising them as zero emission vehicles is a lie unless the power used to charge them was generated through hydro-electric, PE/Solar or wind power. Since 44% of power generation in the US is coal and another 24% is natural gas and 20% is nuclear, electic cars have plenty of emissions, just not from the tail pipe.

Electric Power Monthly
fig2.jpg



Some light reading :)

Greentech Media: Electric Cars: Bad for Your Health?
Electric cars increase CO2 emissions Don Surber
The Yale Forum on Climate Change & The Media Hybrid Car? Or All-Electric Vehicle?They All Take Energy, So How to Decide?
Old http://www.energy.ca.gov/papers/CEC-999-1996-015.PDF
New http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/41410.pdf
 
TNGTony

TNGTony

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HA :D

[putting on pocket protector, horn rim glasses and "spock" ears]
Of course any trekie knows that the Dilithum Crystals are just the component that focuses and controls the mater/anti-mater reaction that powers the ship's warp drive engines, but the ship's power for computers and lighting comes from the on-board fusion generators.
[removing spock ears, pocket protector and horn rim glasses] :)

BTW, mater/anti-mater power generation is no longer science fiction!
Antimatter Breakthrough: Big Batch Created in Lab
Of course right now it would take the total global GDP for 100 years to make enough anti-mater to power a city for a day. :)
 
Geronimo

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I don't disagree with your second post---or with the contention that it is misleading to call them zero emission vehicles. They themselveshave no emissions but of course there are emissions form somewhere else.

But it is till possible that the emissions from the power plants is less than what would have been produced by IC or diesel engines.


BTW Greentech Media is funded by the petroleum industry as were some other studies you cite. I agree that we need to think it through I just don't think that the matter is as settled as you portraying it to be.
 
TNGTony

TNGTony

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Geronimo, it depends which study you read and who is behind it.
I guess I should have said "just as dirty" instead of dirtier. :)

The studies that say its worse to have IC are electric car companies like Tesla Motors or lobbyist agencies trying to push policies through state and federal governments to enrich their clients. The ones that say EHVs are worse are funded by petrolium companies. The ones that hedge their bets one way or another or are inconclusive are generally university funded (they want to say its better to have EHVs but can't quite get the definite numbers). And power generation is not the only issue here. Manufacturing, materials used, lingevity of service, waste disposal, and carbon footprint of manufacture is another item often overlooked.
 
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