On-Screen Billing Nags for Already Paid Bills

[HanoverPretzel]

It sounds like you are. I have a friend in similar financial difficulty due to her divorce, no alimony due to jobless ex-husband and medical issues. Her credit was shot and pretty much non-existent. She got a secured CC thru the same bank she has her checking account with using collateral money in a savings account (still her money earning interest, just she can't access it whle she has the active credit card) with same bank that she started up with some money from her tax refund. Having a CC (secured or not) and paying it on time all the time is the fastest way to build up good credit. Eventually you may get to the point where you won't need a prepay account anymore. Companies like Dish and your utilities for example don't report good credit events, only bad ones like missing/late payments.

I thought about that angle of using a secured card to build good credit. Problem was (and is) that my income is so low that even if I did get a secured card and used it for a while to build credit, they still might not consider me as having good enough credit to get the best offers for things or real credit cards, simply because my income is so low. If they could absolutely guarantee that it would work for that purpose, I might do it. But as things stand it's sort of a "Pay us now for nothing. Eventually you might get it back years later. It could help build you good credit- or not- no guarantees.". The fine print on the offers was all pretty clear that they weren't guaranteeing you a regular credit card or anything down the line.

Honestly, it also just bothers me that it's sort of a bum deal. I don't want to loan my money to a big corporation to try to work their own credit system that I don't really like to begin with. They sort of in a way create the problem with the way credit scores work, and then offer you a potential solution that involves loaning them money, and then in the end you aren't even guaranteed it'll fix the problem you're trying to solve. I think if I had a better income, I might give it a try, but as things stand, it just seems like I'd be putting myself in a position to get screwed again.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Yes, the goal is to get to auto pay.

And my goal is to avoid auto-pay. Doesn't give me enough financial flexibility.

They all have stupid annoyances.

That's true. Even though Dish is the only company I've seen that has this particular annoyance, other companies have their own unique annoyances.

It'd be nice if a company would just flat out try to compete to offer the best customer experience, though. I guess in my dreams.

 

[dare2be]

Honestly, it also just bothers me that it's sort of a bum deal. I don't want to loan my money to a big corporation to try to work their own credit system that I don't really like to begin with. They sort of in a way create the problem with the way credit scores work, and then offer you a potential solution that involves loaning them money, and then in the end you aren't even guaranteed it'll fix the problem you're trying to solve. I think if I had a better income, I might give it a try, but as things stand, it just seems like I'd be putting myself in a position to get screwed again.

Sorry, I'm just not sure you are understanding/listening to me. Next tax refund you get coming up, put $300 of it away in a savings account with your current bank. You will earn interest on that money, your saved money. Use that $300 savings account to get a $300 secured credit card, also thru your same bank. If you only use it within your means and never pay finance charges on it, the only bum deal is for the bank. They are paying you interest on your savings, AND loaning you money up to a month at a time interest free (credit card charges with no interest charges). Plus you get the convenience and financial flexibility by paying with credit. You get a triple benefit. Think about that. Quadruple benefit if it helps build your credit, which it will.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Sorry, I'm just not sure you are understanding/listening to me. Next tax refund you get coming up, put $300 of it away in a savings account with your current bank. You will earn interest on that money, your saved money. Use that $300 savings account to get a $300 secured credit card, also thru your same bank. If you only use it within your means and never pay finance charges on it, the only bum deal is for the bank. They are paying you interest on your savings, AND loaning you money up to a month at a time interest free (credit card charges with no interest charges). Plus you get the convenience and financial flexibility by paying with credit. You get a triple benefit. Think about that.

This is from the legal disclaimer:

"You acknowledge and agree that this security interest, pledge, and assignment means that the bank has exclusive control over the Collateral Account, You may not make any withdrawals from the Collateral Account while it secures your credit card. The Secured Card Collateral Account is a non-interest bearing account, therefore no interest will be paid to you on the Collateral Account."

It also lists a $25 annual fee. So I'd be loaning them my money without interest and literally paying them for the privilege on top of it.

Sounds like your friend's bank offered a better deal. Maybe it depends on what part of the country you live in and what banks are there.

 

[Mr Tony]

It's a difference between pre-pay and post-pay accounts. These nags only apply to pre-pay accounts. Pre-pay accounts are what you get if you sign up without providing them with a social security number, if they don't like your credit, or if you specifically request it. In my case, they didn't like my credit.

But I've paid every single bill I've ever gotten from Dish on-time. Never had a single late payment.

The DIRT team has in the past confirmed this is Dish's official policy toward pre-pay accounts. In other words, it's not just me-- it's anyone who has a pre-pay account. So it is a larger issue that could apply to other people on the forum.

You must have a receiver hooked to internet?
I am pre-pay too (I bought the equipment so no SS# on file) and usually 2 days before the due date I get a call but havent seen the pop up.

 

[dare2be]

Was the disclaimer from the same bank that you have your checking account? Banks offering unsolicited cards like that with no existing customer relationship are taking higher risks and will charge more and make more restrictions. If it's your own bank, you should get a better deal.

Also, look into a local credit union to do all your banking...they usually don't fee you to death like banks do and usually are more customer friendly.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

You must have a receiver hooked to internet?
I am pre-pay too (I bought the equipment so no SS# on file) and usually 2 days before the due date I get a call but havent seen the pop up.

Actually, it's not Internet connected. At the time of the install, I didn't have any broadband to connect it to. I got cable Internet back like six months later, but didn't feel the need to make the hookup (And if there's no wifi receiver in the receiver and it needs to be a wired connection, it'd require a lot of rewiring, because my Internet modem is on the other side of the apartment from the television).

I guess the way to test to see if you can get the nag screen would be to wait to pay until the day it's due, then pay with a debit card via Dish Network's website that day. That would be reproducing what I did exactly and should produce the same results for someone else with a pre-pay account (I would think anyway).

Was the disclaimer from the same bank that you have your checking account?

Yup.

Banks offering unsolicited cards like that with no existing customer relationship are taking higher risks and will charge more and make more restrictions. If it's your own bank, you should get a better deal.

I agree. The funny thing is that I read some press articles where my bank was saying it's big strategy was to try to get it's existing customers to use them for as many financial services as possible. So I thought they'd be a good bet to get a regular credit card from, since I was an existing customer. Then they rejected me and cited a low average balance in my existing checking account with them as one of the reasons for the rejection. It was a little frustrating, but actually kind of funny. I would have stood a better chance with a random bank I hadn't ever dealt with, or at least they made it sound that way in the letter they sent.

My savings account is with an Internet bank that doesn't offer credit cards.

Also, look into a local credit union to do all your banking...they usually don't fee you to death like banks do and usually are more customer friendly.

Yeah, I've thought about it, and love the idea of credit unions in general. What holds me back is that my existing checking account was started with a bank that got bought out and is grandfathered six ways from Sunday. I have the sort of deal banks were offering years ago before the financial collapse with no monthly fee, no direct deposit requirement, no debit card fee, no online bill pay fee, no minimum balance requirement, etc.. As long as they're giving me that and don't do anything egregious customer service wise, they'll probably keep me forever.

I am difficult to please sometimes, but not impossible to please. There are a few companies I've dealt with long-term and have few if any complaints about. I started doing business with amazon.com as a teenager way back when they only sold physical books and they're great. I probably come off sounding like a whiny curmudgeon sometimes on the forums here, and maybe I am a little bit of a curmudgeon, but I look at the evidence and, say, hey, I'm actually not impossible to please. I just need good products at a good price with good customer service- and some companies in the non-television world do managed to pull off that combination with me. So it is possible. It's just that I have some level of expectations of value and good service- and it seems like fewer and fewer people really do anymore- and even fewer companies offer it. Gotta hold these companies feet to the fire a little bit and let them know when they aren't doing things the right way.

I could see being really happy with a television service and sticking with them the rest of my life. I just haven't had a television company treat me the way amazon.com or even my bank does. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think television providers were actually in some sort of contest to see who could annoy their customers the most. I know they aren't, but it does almost seem like it sometimes.

 

[Mr Tony]

The reason I ask is a couple months ago I got the call and paid with my debit/check card (with the visa logo) and never saw the nag message.

Is it a debit card or a check card? I know debit cards the money "sits there" for a couple days before going through. Check card is almost instant (within an hour)

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Is it a debit card or a check card? I know debit cards the money "sits there" for a couple days before going through. Check card is almost instant (within an hour)

Interestingly, pre-buyout my bank called it a check card. The bank that bought it calls it a debit card and their promotional literature said it was simply a terminology difference (Two words for the same thing). I've been able to use the card the same way as I used to. Dish doesn't ask for a pin number, so they're probably processing it as credit card rather than debit. One can put it through as a credit card places and sign for things like a credit card (or do nothing on smaller purchases), or put it through as a debit card and enter a pin (User's choice).

 

[osu1991]

I'll second the local credit union part. Best thing I did, is when I moved my personal accts back to a local credit union.

 

[Mr Tony]

I always understood a debit card means a pin needs to be entered and a cash/check card had a visa logo. Maybe that has changed

 

[osu1991]

Yeah, I've thought about it, and love the idea of credit unions in general. What holds me back is that my existing checking account was started with a bank that got bought out and is grandfathered six ways from Sunday. I have the sort of deal banks were offering years ago before the financial collapse with no monthly fee, no direct deposit requirement, no debit card fee, no online bill pay fee, no minimum balance requirement, etc.. As long as they're giving me that and don't do anything egregious customer service wise, they'll probably keep me forever.

I don't know about other places, but that is and has been standard for all the local and regional banks around Oklahoma for probably 10 years. My local credit union only has a couple of locations in the entire metro area and shorter hours than my regional banking institutions, which pretty much have a location on every corner and is one of the reasons, I still have my older personal acct and my business acct there, but not having a hundred locations in the metro saves on their costs, which they can pass along to the members. The credit union pays me 10 times the interest rate on my accts, than what I get from the other two regional banks I also use. Service is a big thing, I can bring in a bucket of change that has piled up on my desk for six months and the credit union will run thru the coin counter free of change, whereas the regional banks want to change me 10% to run it thru the counter and deposit it in my accts.

It normally doesn't take much to open an acct at a credit union. $5 dollar deposit into a savings accts or $50 into a checking acct, then just slowly over time start moving more of your business to them. Usually you will have to have the savings acct in order to get a checking acct.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

I always understood a debit card means a pin needs to be entered and a cash/check card had a visa logo. Maybe that has changed

My debit card can be used the traditional way (with a PIN) or as a credit card (with a signature), and has a major credit card company logo on it. I think it's an evolving thing. I guess maybe years ago places weren't accepting debit cards for whatever reason, which gave the banks an incentive to make debit cards that can be operated as credit cards. You literally can select "credit" at a gas pump or whatever with the debit card and it'll process it as credit. The only difference from "real" credit being that the money comes directly out of your checking account. Other than that you can use it exactly like a credit card if you want to.

To use an ATM with it, obviously you need to enter a PIN. And if you select "debit" instead of "credit" at the point of sale, you need to enter a pin. I think making a purchase and a cash withdrawal simultaneously at a merchant you also would need to enter a PIN (I honestly can't remember doing that, but I think it can be done.). But if you enter it as credit at the point of sale, no PIN required, and it's accepted that way anywhere that accepts credit cards.

Occasionally you run into a machine at a cash register somewhere that prompts you for a PIN, thinking you want to run it through as debit, but you can hit "cancel" and then "credit" and then it prompts you for a signature.

There was a time when my bank charged a fee for using it as a debit card (Like a quarter), but charged no fee as long as you put it through as a credit card. I remember the teller telling me "Always hit the credit button and it's fee free" and it was. I think they've since dropped the fee for using it as a debit card, because the financial incentives for the banks have changed. Something about processing fees and how they're regulated I think-- it's different for the banks depending on how you use it, even though it's the same card being used for the same thing with the money coming from the same account.

I'm not sure if it's industry standard now that debit cards can be put through as credit cards or just something my bank does. But it does do it despite it saying "debit" right on the card.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

I don't know about other places, but that is and has been standard for all the local and regional banks around Oklahoma for probably 10 years.

The national trend that's beginning is that banks are starting to charge more and more fees or offer "no fee" accounts with strings attached-- i.e. that to get no regular monthly fee, you need to sign up for a regular direct deposit into the account from your employer (or whoever) every month or maintain a minimum average balance or both or some other condition. I know that a new customer at my bank would now not be able to get free checking without conditions or strings attached to it anymore. I get free checking with no conditions simply because I am a long standing customer of the bank from a time before they were bought out and before they had the fees, though. It's kind of like how satellite companies sometimes have grandfathered packages that new customers can't get, but long-standing customers are allowed to continue to subscribe to as long as they don't change anything.

As long as I get to keep my grandfathered banking package with it's favorable terms and conditions, I'm happy. If they choose to end the grandfathering at some point, I'll drive over to my local credit union and see if they can offer me something along the same lines as what I currently have. I don't really see reason to switch while I'm happy, but I am well aware that companies don't always grandfather you indefinitely-- eventually they often try to shift you over to their standard stuff. And their now standard fees and conditions wouldn't be acceptable to me. So that's when I'd switch (hypothetically).

 

[dare2be]

Still, even with your checking account still at your bank, I'd look into a credit union and see what kind of secured credit card you could get and what the fees and restrictions are. You might be surprised. Just a suggestion for getting you the additional financial flexibility you want.

 

[mike123abc]

Another option, but harder, is pay a month in advance. You can just put money when you have it in your Dish account and it will just sit there until your bill comes. I do this essentially I annual prepay, but there are monthly charges that cannot be annual (like additional receiver fees). I prepay these fees so I do not get any bills during the year. Income tax refund time may be a good chance to get a month ahead....

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Another option, but harder, is pay a month in advance. You can just put money when you have it in your Dish account and it will just sit there until your bill comes. I do this essentially I annual prepay, but there are monthly charges that cannot be annual (like additional receiver fees). I prepay these fees so I do not get any bills during the year. Income tax refund time may be a good chance to get a month ahead....

I was actually doing this for a while. It's a good idea. But sometimes circumstances necessitate I use that money for something else one month and then get into a groove of paying at the last minute for a while until I can get a little ahead.

I don't think it's Dish's role to play nanny and try to force me into paying early (Which benefits them, and isn't out of the goodness of their heart) to avoid nagging phone calls during the day and screen obstructions while I'm trying to watch television at night. They give me a due date when the money is due and as long as I pay on or before that due date, I should be golden with them- no harassing anything. I'm living up to the terms of our agreement no matter when I pay as long as it isn't after the due date.

And, like I said, I never had this issue with cable. I can't say for sure that Directv doesn't do it, but I doubt they do. So, this is an area where Dish is worse than their competition, and it's something they could easily fix. When you're in an industry like this where all the services are at least very roughly similar (Similar prices, most of the same channels, signals that can be hooked up to the same televisions, etc.), where you differentiate yourself for good for ill can be "little" things like this. I could see "Well, if I switch, I'll stop getting nagging phone calls and stuff obstructing my television screen." as being a deciding factor for someone somewhere, or at least one of several things together than push someone to change providers.

On the other hand, I'll try to be fair here and say that the ease with which you can switch channel packages online with Dish is something that they have that cable doesn't that is in their favor. It's great to be able to trade up or down on packages with the click of a few buttons and see all my options laid out in print rather than having to call and sit on hold and try to get the information out of someone verbally on the phone.

So, I'm not saying the cable company is all good or that Dish is all bad by any means. I'm just saying there are some specific things Dish does that are really irritating and I wish they'd stop. If I wanted to be nagged constantly, I'd get married.

 

[bigbyrd4]

Use your debit card and set up "auto pay". It will debit your card the day it is due. Since you never pay it late, it will automatically pay it for you on time.

Problem solved.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Use your debit card and set up "auto pay". It will debit your card the day it is due. Since you never pay it late, it will automatically pay it for you on time.

Problem solved.

What if I want to pay early one month so I get it done when I know I have the money? Or what if, theoretically, I'm waiting on a check to clear and do have to pay a day late to avoid an overdraft fee from my bank? The second scenario has never happened, and hopefully never will, but I'm leery of auto-pay just in case. I could even see a company drawing early in the day from account on auto-pay day, but the money to pay it doesn't get there until later, so I'd have an overdraft I could have avoided while still paying on-time, just later in the day.

Just a general concern about a lot of automated payments that you don't click the "okay" to initiate each month is that it makes it a lot easier to loose track of what's going in and what's going out and exactly when it happens. I think I've only had one overdraft fee in the last 5-10 years, and it came because I had a little $8 Netflix plan that auto-withdrew something while I was still waiting for a transfer from my savings account to cover expenses after a big unexpected veterinary bill wiped out my checking. If Netflix had allowed me to set it up so I could manually pay it, that would have never happened. They would have sent me an e-mail with a bill and I would have then put my account on hold for a month, or at least paid a day or two late (after the savings account transfer went through) to avoid an overdraft fee. That little $8 Netflix fee cost me $43 after the overdraft fee and really put me in a bad way financially combined with the vet bill that made life really rough for a while.

Auto-pay results in a lot of potential "Gotchas" for people who sometimes operate with low account balances or don't have a hawk-like attention to detail. When I set up manual payments, I know exactly what I'm spending and exactly when I'm spending it, and can compare it to my bank balance in real time before clicking "submit". It's slightly more of a hassle, I guess, but it saves me potential overdraft fees I can't afford and gives me good peace of mind. It's actually the financially responsible thing for me to do to put myself in direct control of payments as much as possible.

It's fine for companies to offer auto-pay as an option, but I shouldn't have to do it avoid harassing robo-calls and nag screens payments that either aren't due yet or were already made on-time.

 

[navychop]

My credit union doesn't charge me any fees, just like you posted re' your bank. And they never have.