OTA antenna, 622, locals and Dish

[rubytopaz]

I joined this group to put out the word and help anyone who is frustrated like I was. I just want to save people from the major headache I went through. I actually called Dish and gave them the fix, so that they could help anyone with this problem.
First ,the backround:
I was a Voom customer (LOVED IT!!!), I really bummed when the debacle hit (I can't believe what the son did to the father, and all of us, when he forced Voom out of business). Anyway, when I heard that Dish had aquired Voom channels, I switched over. I initially had some problems, but someone referred me to Judd Strickland and he was GREAT. He addressed all my problems and I was a happy camper. With Voom, along with tons of HD satellite programming, I had 22 locals with my OTA antenna.
I switched to Dish, 22 locals with my OTA antenna. Switched to the 942 DVR box, 22 locals. Fried the hard drive, new 942 box, 22 locals. Swiched to the 622, 6 locals (which in reality is two to three stations)?!!! I called them to tell them what happened and request a new box. They treated me as though I was from Mars and lying to them. "You are only supposed to be getting 6 locals" is what they said. I told them that, for over a year and a half, I have been getting 22 locals, with 4 different boxes and two different companies, and it all stopped with the 622, so it must be the box. They sent a tech out who told me (after going on the roof) that my amplified antenna wasn't really a good one. "Why was I getting 22 stations for over a year and half with multiple boxes and two different companies, if my antenna is so bad?" I asked. No good response. He called Dish and said that I "claimed" to have 22 local stations (as though I was lying), and that he couldn't find anything wrong. He told the guy that he suggests I try a signal amplifier. After much arguing with the guy, he told me to try a signal amplifier (mind you, I have an amplified antenna) and if that doesn't work to call back and he will send me new box with no questions asked. I asked if there would be any notation on the account, so that I wouldn't have to go through this again. He said there would be extensive notes on there, so there won't be a problem. I did what he asked, it didn't work, I called back, got a different guy, he didn't know what the heck I was talking about and proceeded to put me through the whole nightmare again. After getting switched to the advanced tech (and again being treated as though I was lying: "you not supposed to be getting all those locals"). I finally screamed: "I was lied to! I was told to try the signal amplifier and, if it didn't work, you would send me a new box!" They finally sent me a new box, and although I now got nine stations and a far better picture, It was still a far cry from 22 locals with my OTA antenna. I decided to try one more thing. I went to Radio Shack and bought what they call a "Satellite/TV/FM In-Line Signal Amplifier." It comes with a signal amplifier that goes near your antenna on the roof, and a pwer supply that goes near your receiver. In the directions it tells you that, if you have an amplified antenna, don't use the signal amplifier that goes near your antenna, just use the power supply that goes near the receiver. That's what I did...33 LOCAL STATIONS!!!!!! The HD on the locals is stunning!
I figure that all the boxes that I had, VOOM's box and the Dish 942, all had power supplies for the OTA. The 622, although it has a power supply for the Satellite, it does not have a power supply for the OTA antenna like all the previous boxes did.
I hope that this note saves people with my problem from the frustration that i went through. Good Luck!
Mark

 

[bhelms]

I'm hoping I'm not missing somthing here (certainly possible at the end of a long week!), the 622's OTA tuner is digital only, so any analog channels you were receiving with the other "boxes" will no longer be part of your mix.

Sorry to say, I'm completely confused as to your configuration. Are you using a separate cable from your OTA antenna to the OTA input on the 622, or do you have both the sat signals and OTA signals diplexed into a single downlead? That combination including a preamp at the OTA antenna is possible, but you would need a preamp that can operate from the same power as the sat LNBs (as provided by the receiver) and the diplexers need to be matched to that configuration to provide power to the OTA antenna side as well as the LNBs. If your cables are separate, the OTA cable needs a power supply somewhere in it to operate the amplifier in your OTA antenna. No sat box I know of provides power from the OTA input, so you must have had a separate power supply originally when you got those 22 channels. If that original power supply was removed for some reason that would explain why you lost most of your signals; only the very strong ones could pass through the "dead" (unpowered) amp!

Perhaps the existing amp at your antenna no longer had power after the 622 was first installed (its power supply might have been removed or burned-out or whatever) and when you added in just the new power supply that made it work again.

Without more information on your specific configuration I can't comment further.

It is widely reported in this forum that the 622 has a superior OTA tuner vs. other E* receivers (tho' that has not yet been my experience). I suspect that the 622's tuner was ready and able to work but was confounded by the lack of an amplified signal until you "replaced" the missing or defective power supply with your new one. The fact that the amplified antenna works with the RS power supply is coincidental, but likely. However, it may not be optimal!

Tks for the information and welcome...!

 

[GRG]

I just replaced my 921 with a 622 last night and OMG the 622 OTA tuner rocks!
My signal strength is up on all channels and I now receive 2 additional channels that the POS 921 tuner could not get reliably. I have a top of the line Blonger Tongue UHF antenna which is now paired with an equally competant tuner...

Good job Dish! (I can't believe I'm saying that)...

 

[rubytopaz]

When I had my original box installed, over a year and a half ago, The tech who set it up ran the coax straight from my OTA antenna to my box. It has worked that way all this time. Never had a problem. I watching TV right up until the guy came to swtch the box, and it was still working. I watched him put the new box on top of the old box, switch the cables (putting them in the same place as the old, without deviation), and then setting the box up. I lost my channels then. No one was on the roof (until they came a week later to troubleshoot), so they couldn't have broken anything. It was fine until they switched the box, so there must have been power being sent to the OTA before, but not now. Dish validated for me, during my last phone call to technical, That the satellites dishes get power from the box, and agreed with me that it must be the case that the 622 doesn't give power to the OTA. It just seems logical to me: all this time with different boxes, at different times, and I always had all my locals (obviously my antenna getting power). Works right up the minute the 622 is installed. then no locals. Add a power supply; locals again (even more than before). It didn't seem a stretch to come to this conclusion

 

[rubytopaz]

I forgot to add a thank you for the response and for the welcome.
Mark

 

[Grandude]

Mark,
I'm glad you finally resolved your problem.
Note though, it was your problem, not a Dish problem. The amplified VOOM antenna is/was not part of the Dish installation and you were just lucky that your older boxes worked for you. Dish provides the power up to the switches and LNBs to operate them properly and is not responsible for powering anything else connected on your roof.
Again, I am really glad to hear that all is well now.

 

[bhelms]

Well, I'm at a loss here. Agreed, the 622 and all receivers provide power on the sat cables to power the LNBs/switches. But as I said, I was unaware of any receiver that also has power available at the OTA terminal - Guess I am wrong on that account since apparently your previous set-up was somehow getting the power from the receivers.

What type of antenna amplifier do you have? I'm suggesting that you confirm that the RS power supply is giving exactly the power required and not underpowered (specifically too low of a current capability) in which case it will have a short life. Otherwise, don't fix what's not broken! I assume you're using just the power inserter and ac adapter from a RS 15-1170 in-line signal amp...

 

[smokey982]

I also noticed a difference in switching from my old 811 to a new 622. Although when I changed to the 622, I did show a stronger signal on a couple of channles (CBS,NBC). But I also lost some signal strength on a couple of the weaker stations.

My local Fox, which has never had a strong signal. With my 811 it bounced between 65 - 75%. But after changing to my 622, I receive NO signal at all.

Also my PBS which used to be between 85-92%, Now stays around 62-68%. Which is usually unwatchable. It's very frustrating.

 

[rubytopaz]

Yes, that's right, I'm just using the power inserter and ac adapter from a RS 15-1170 in-line signal amp. I don't know the brand of antenna, as I've never been on the roof (don't like heights). As you said, it's not broke, so I won't fix it. I'm getting 33 locals, instead of the 22 I had prior to the 622. To address Grandude's post. The reason I considered it a Dish problem was that: It was a Dish tech that ran the wire that way and told me that it was better and that I'd get more stations (I don't know how it was set up with Voom). I'm not a Dish tech (I'm technical, in that I am a musician and have a recording studio and an extensive guitar rig that I put together and programmed), so I had to go by what he said, and he was right. I loved having all those stations with very sharp, detailed HD signal. I was very happy with my 942. I only switched to the 622 because I was told that everything was switching to MPEG4 and I wouldn't be able to get any new channels, so I switched. It was disappointing to lose all those channels; it was frustrating and really made me angry to be treated as though I were a liar (they basically implied that there was no way that I could get all those channels). At that point, I just wanted my 942 back. I live in Providence. Boston transmitters are only about 33 miles away. I had Providence, Boston, and Connecticut stations (and do again now). It would have been nice if someone knew what was going on, and could have helped me, instead of claiming that Dish wasn't responsible for the locals. I figured that: if their tech installed it that way (he was very knowledgeable and I wish I could have had him trouble shoot this), and it worked all this time, and then something was changed; I would think that there was some responsibility there (beside the fact that the first box wasn't even giving me my Providence locals and the picture was dull). The replacement box brought in all my Providence stations and has a beautifully detailed picture, so there was something wrong with my first 622. Now that the power supply has been added, I couldn't be happier with the image quality and channels.