Reasons why you should NOT get a 522.

mrschwarz said:
Is the unit going to selectively screw things up? How does it feel about made for TV movies?

That's gold, mrschwarz! Gold!

AJF, it's my understanding that there's no copy protection of any sort on the 522. Just the standard decryption that all Dish products use. Also, I've never even had a 522 connected to an external recorder. Just a straight shot right to Sony TVs on both TV1 and TV2.

P.S. Big thanks to Scott for taking a personal interest in this and trying to help.
 
ChrisCoop said:
... it's my understanding that there's no copy protection of any sort on the 522..
Just to clarify. There IS copy protection (encryption) on the content stored on the hard drive.

So far as I know, the 522 does not 'respect' the data stream's 'Copy Protect' flag - if it's even being transmitted by Dish or an upstream provider.
 
Thank you Simon .
I was beginning to think that I was speaking a different language because nobody seems to understand what I'm talking about .
 
Simon, I understand the info on the hard drive is encrypted, but it's just stored the way it comes in off the satellite, and then decrypted before being passed on to the outputs, (like other models, minus the hard drive) right? I mean, they're not using additional steps like Macrovision just for their DVRs, or are they? I thought (from reading the manual and watching channel 101) that they actually encourage people to move recordings to VCR. :confused:
 
No additional encryption steps so far as I know.

I'm gonna speculate a little bit here as to the difference between say, a 501 and a 721. I think the 501 decrypts BEFORE storing to disk and the 721 does it AFTER.

Hmmm. I wonder what happens if you drop a subscription and then try to view an already recorded event. Hmmm.
 
Uh Oh

I'm getting a 522 tomorrow. I hope I don't have all the problems Chris has.

That is TEH SUXXZ0r! :eek:

(btw, I LOVE the emoticons and crap you can post here. MUCH funnier than other bbs's I've been on)
 
No Uh Oh

Well, so far our new 522 has performed flawlessly. No color loss, no audio or video signal loss or dropout. DVR works fine, have tested on the fly instant recording and timed event recording. All is 100% functioning. The only thing I can possibly find to gripe about with the equipment is no PIP. But we really never will have a need for that so I don't care. :D

Our satellite install company, on the other hand... :mad:

What a bunch of f**king idiots. :confused: Two trips to our place by two different guys, neither of which had the necessary building materials. The third trip by the 2nd guy (who was thoughtful enough to stop by Radio Shack and buy a tripod this time) went well. They had the dish mounted and the cables installed in about 1.5 hours, then another 1/2 hour for synching/activating/testing and showing me how to run the thing. :eek:

So far, I'm very pleased, and the picture (even on our crappy $300 27" panasonic TV) is clearer and sharper than digital cable from Comcast. Top 120 package is $20/mo less than the cheapest digital plan grandfathered in from ATTBI, $5/mo for DVR and fucing Cumcast charges $15/mo more for cable modem without cable TV, so financially, it'll be a wash, but we get a DVR out of the deal. :rolleyes:

I'm happy :yes
 
Thats funny, thats kinda how my install went also. They didn't have tools, they bowwowed mine. They never even stay during the initial download and never even new if it worked! They never explained how to use it at.
As for the 522 so far so good, after a week. I never had a DVR and its really cool! My Non digital cable (around 65 channels) no premium channels was $49.00 a month. Dish with the 522 120 Chanel with locals $39.00.
It was a no brainier.
Now we'll see what happens when it rains, and we'll see how the reliable the service is.
Lenny
 
Day 2 update

We were paying $60/mo for the cheapest digital package from Comcast (which was grandfathered in when they bought ATTBI - their new suscriber cheapest digital package is $68/mo). So it's $20 cheaper with Dish, + $5/mo for DVR, +$15/mo additional fee for cable modem WITHOUT subscribing to cable TV. So it will be a pretty much negligible difference for us money wise, but we get a DVR out of the deal.

So far no problems of any kind at all. :)
 
So how does everyone like the new single mode now that you just got new software for it? Does it work similar to the 721 with pip? Or does it now have a new list of bugs?
 
I want single mode... but i cant have it yet :(

On teh other hand I have only had 1 problem with the reciever.. the guide locked up completely... I had to do a reboot... no big deal.. My installer did a great job.. I used to install D* and was surprised at how similar the system is to install.. he even borrowed some of my tools cause mine were better... either way i love my 522...
 
Installed 2/522's ( and a 921 ) for myself a few days ago. Was fairly easy and so far no problems. Love the guide and general operation of the 522, picture quality is great. I have the outputs distributed out to several tv's and I'm really pleased that you can control TV1 with a UHF remote, just have to get a few more of them on ebay.

I've been a little reluctant to post this because I don't want to jinx myself, but I'm very happy with all the receivers . :)
 
Regarding Chris's opening post (from 5 pages ago...) and my personal experiences. I have the following perviously mentioned problems, and have L1.69 software:

- lost audio after pause (2nd bullet)

- static/beep/popping noise while jumping through time (5th bullet). I just understand this to be a not-so-graceful re-synching with the encoded audio stream, synonymous to the video sticking at one frame for a moment and maybe getting some blocking as the motion picks back up. Also, on my end the anomalous sounds are not very loud.

- forgotten favorites list names (6th bullet). This actually only happened to me once, and I wasn't aware of the L1.68 to L1.69 transition starting July 1, so it might have been right when I started using L1.69. Further, for some reason it was only my TV2 lists whose names were cleared (including the remaining default "List N" names).

- sound and picture hiccup (11th bullet). Very infrequent for me and not very bad. See my notes on the 5th bullet and below on the 17th bullet.

- receiver losing audio stream for no apparent reason (17th bullet). I agree, this is very annoying. I also see various delay in the DD decoding from barely noticeable to about 1/3 second which is intolerable. I often leave my TV's volume somewhat audible (instead of turning it all the way down which I'd rather do) when listening to DD so I can more accurately sense the delay problems. Plus, when the delay is very small, it creates a cool echo effect :rolleyes: but mainly it helps so I can actually hear things when the audio drops entirely :mad: (yes I am new... neat emoticons here!).

- someone else had mentioned about the UHF remote randomly bringing up show information. I see this as well, and I'm using my UHF remote from an upstairs opposite corner from where the receiver is downstairs, with my computer room (and a PDP-11 :D ) in the middle, surely bringing a little interference to the table. I assume the code for the Info button is just similar to or perhaps a fallback for any bad values received. It happens a lot to me, especially when the remote is horizontal over my bed, but it is always the Info button when I meant to hit another button. Incidentally this is how I found the Interactive software versions (try it with each interactive application). If I extend my arm out over the floor and hold the remote vertically (not sure if that matters) it seems to work better when the problem is occurring.

Ok, now for some that I didn't see mentioned, so I'd like to see if anyone else experiences these:

- caller-ID not going away while recording. Normally, caller-ID works fine for me in live tv and menus. But it seems when I'm recording, if I get a call the "menu" style caller-ID (bigger window) appears and it has the OK button but pressing Select doesn't make it go away, even after the recording has stopped. I have to hit Cancel. Actually, come to think of it, it doesn't even go away on its own after several seconds. This bugs me, because I had my TV on while recording something as I was doing yard work and this very bug occurred but I didn't know (outside), and my projection TV showed that stupid box for God knows how long before I came back in. I guess that's what I get for leaving the TV on without me in there.

- caller-ID registering once per ring for telemarketers and such. Somehow this one isn't very clear, but it seems to only do it for "Unavailable" or "out of area" or whatever blocked name/number calls I get. When a call comes in with actual full caller-ID information, it displays once while the phone might ring several times. However, for blocked/incomplete information calls I get one listing per ring.

- audio channel screen saver stuck at top. While I love the screen saver feature of audio channels (the TWC SciAtl 2200 box I had always showed a brightly colored more-or-less STATIC image), frequently it will lose its y-coordinate bouncing and only shift slowly from left to right but at the top of the screen. This of course defeats the purpose of the screen saver, since the more intense border lines will burn in at the top and bottom of the box, toward the middle of my screen. Also, after long enough, the hazy blue background and white blocks of "common area" where the text usually is will all be burned in. While we're at it, just nitpicking, the box "bounces" from the right edge of the screen, only quite a distance from the actual edge, as if their code thinks the box is wider than it actually is. Anyways, back on track, the "Press Sel to continue" thing gets stuck like that too.

Now just some random thoughts to finish off this lengthy post ;) ...

- timer records wrong channel if other favorites list is current (8th bullet). This is deplorable :mad: . I can see where this functionality comes from, however, since the selected list has complete control over what channels can be tuned, searched, whatever. And when tuning via numeric entry it does pick the closest numbered channel (not what I would have done!). The SciAtl 2200 would flash "????" a couple times if an invalid number was entered which to me makes more sense (and stay on the current channel). Also, I feel the favorites should still control up/down surfing, but not restrict what can be punched in numerically. That's where the locks can come in. But back to the timer bug, this is just a case where some Dish developer wasn't thinking, didn't "put 2 and 2 together".

- sort DVR events by pressing numbers (14th bullet). Interesting, I'll have to check that one when I get home. ... Ok, not much else to say on that.

As mentioned, I currently have L1.69 so I'm anxious to see whenever I get L2.01 if any of these were fixed, and not so anxious to see what new bugs were introduced. I too am frustrated with the quality of this software but since I'm new to Dish (and the 522 is fairly new) I'll give them some time and wait it out to see what gets improved, or what gets to be intolerable over time. It's stuff like this (among many, many other factors) that resulted in my long-ago total abandonment of Windows at home in favor of Linux and MacOSX.

Ok, that's all for now. BTW, I've begun putting together a list of comparisons regarding the DVR-522 and the Scientific Atlanta 2200 box I had from TWC before I switched to Dish. My parents who live across town still have the 2200, so I can refresh my memory on some of the points. When it gets substantial enough, I'll post it somewhere (maybe here) and probably on my web site where I can take additional points. Also it would be nice to throw up additional comparisons including the other Dish receivers and other digital cable boxes.

Jason
 
I just checked and I also see the black fill on the right side of the guide after pressing Info then closing the info. At the top left of the black area (just right the top edge of the rightmost time header) is a line of pixels copied from the video portion, about 10 wide and 1 high... odd...
 
TuxCoder, thank you very much for your input in this thread and on these issues. I've never noticed (or looked for) the unusual caller ID behavior you've outlined. I'll try to check it out on mine and let you know what I find. I've also noticed the "stuck" screen saver on audio channels, but as I mentioned in my original post that started this thread, my complaint list was comprehensive but by no means complete.

OK, I recently received the L201 update and wanted to update the thread with some new observations. While I can't yet comment on the really serious complaints - the meat and potatoes issues like losing the ability to rewind, losing 10 second skip back, guide button rebooting, other random reboots, timers not recording anything, picture color disappearing, random numbers in the time section of the status bar, audio loss after pressing pause, audio drop out through the optical connection on DD recordings, etc. etc. etc. - what I can comment on are some of the other annoyances and bugs that I reported on earlier. I'm happy to report that in addition to single mode being enabled (an issue that's pretty meaningless to me since we're powering two TVs with the 522), this update seems to hold a number of other fixes and tweaks.

  • When a timer now launches, it disregards what favorites list you're on and "breaks through" to another favorites list if necessary (8th bullet on page one). That means you don't have to worry about missing recordings because you're on (or were on the last time you were at the TV) a different favorites list. Very nice.
  • With "Record Plus" enabled, the unit previously wouldn't activate the record light on the front of the receiver if (from TV1) you selected "Record - Options - Stop Recording Manually" (13th bullet on page one). This has been fixed. The record light now works as it should. Very nice.
  • The DVR Events/Help screen has been updated to reflect the fact that you CAN'T sort the DVR Events list by pressing the corresponding sort number (1 for alpha/numeric, 2 for movies, etc.) (14th bullet on page one). They simply removed that section of text from the help screen. It would have been a lot nicer if they actually made it possible to sort the list by pressing the corresponding number as was originally intended, but at least we now know that someone (other than me) looked at the issue and said, "Hey, that's not right. Let's fix that." Sort of nice.
  • The "black strip" that ran vertically down the right side of the screen after cancelling an info window from within the guide (15th bullet on page one) has been fixed. No more black strip. Nice.

On the improvements front, a couple of things come to mind.

  • The banner window (both in live TV mode or while watching a recording) now shows how much time is left in the program/recording. When watching live TV, you can press "Cancel" on the remote and quickly see on the right side of the banner (without having to do any math) how much time is left in the program. When watching a recording, you can again press "Cancel" and quickly see how much time is left to go without having to pause the recording to bring up the time/status bar. This is a great (and simple) improvement. Very nice.
  • When stopping a recording, you are now prompted with a more detailed explanation of what's going on and what you're doing. Before, when you pressed "Stop" while you were recording, you got a pop up that asked if you wanted to switch to live mode. They have replaced that pop up with a more detailed message that now reads: "Your request will stop the TV recording and switch to live mode TV. Do you wish to stop the recording? Yes/No/Cancel." Nice.

On the complaint front, I've found a bug that I don't believe existed before and is incredibly annoying.

If, while watching live TV, you press "Record - OK" (the option that will "Record Remainder Of This Event") the 522 immediately throws a red dot (active) timer to the Timers List and begins to record. That's fine so far. Now, if you decide you want to stop the recording and select "Stop - Yes" (the option that will stop recording and switch you to live mode) the recording will stop, but the timer that was placed in the Timers List will NOT automatically disappear (and CANNOT be deleted manually in the Timers List). So, if you then change the channel and on a different program select "Record - OK" to record the remainder of that event, you get sent to the Timer Conflict Resolution screen and have to go in and manually delete the timer that was created before and that you know isn't even recording. It's kind of hard to explain and I'm unable to take pictures right now but if you have a 522 and want to see for yourself, just tune to a program, press "Record - OK," wait a few seconds, press "Stop - Yes," note that the recording has stopped, now go to the Timers List (Menu - 7), and try to delete the red dot timer. You can't. I think the 522 should be smart enough to remove that red dot timer on its own as soon as you stop the recording and have basically terminated the timer. FIXED

I'll try to get some pictures up later of both the good and bad points I've brought up in this post. As I mentioned earlier, I can't yet comment on some of the more serious complaints, but I have to give credit where credit is due and say kudos to Dish for making what seems to be a genuine effort to fix some of these issues, even if only the minor/cosmetic ones. This update, more than any other, seems to be loaded with minor tweaks, improvements, and bug fixes. Some of those bug fixes even seem to be addressing complaints that have come straight out of this thread and haven't been listed anywhere else. For example, the incorrect info in the DVR Events/Help section. That incorrect info has been there since the 522 was launched. Several updates in that time and it was never corrected. And I seriously doubt anyone called Dish's 1-800 number to complain about such a "trivial" issue. But I list it in a complaint thread that's seen by thousands and thousands of members here at SatelliteGuys.us, and someone at Dish finally takes notice. Maybe now the naysayers will be able to see that my "scathing report" might have actually helped all of us 522 users. More later.
 
Kudos To Chriscoop

You also deserve some recognition. So many people don't hesitate to come on the forums to bash Dish, but then don't bother to come back and commend Dish when they fix the problems that they had ranted about.

BTW, I''ve only had the 522 (two of them actually) for a couple of weeks but I am extremely happy with them so far . Same goes for the 921 which I installed a few weeks ago.
 
Almost forgot, 1 more kudo for all the help on another thread about how to convert TV1 to UHF remote control . Works like a dream .
 
Chriscoop
Just out of curiosity, is your DVR 522 inside a cabinet or some place where there is not a lot of air flow? I'm just wondering if the reason you seem to have so many problems is because your unit it getting too hot.
 
AJF, thanks for the thanks :)

maximum, our 522 sits on Metro wire shelving. So there's (literally) several feet of breathing room in all directions. But that's good thinking on your part, thanks!

Now, I hate to do this, and I know many here are going to hate it as well, but I think I might have to retract some of my earlier praise for Dish's efforts with this latest update. It appears we're not out of the woods just yet. Already, in the handful of times I've had the 522 turned on since this latest update, I've experienced a number of the "old" problems and a couple of new ones as well.

As was reported on page 1 and page 4 of this thread, the 522 still loses the ability to rewind. It appears they did make some effort to address the issue though. Previously, as was shown in the videos titled "0310 - No Rewind And Wrong Time," and "0330 - No Rewind And Wrong Time," sometimes the 522 would start to play the video in slow motion when you tried to rewind. I don't know what they did to try and fix this, but now the video simply freezes where it used to play in slow motion. It doesn't happen every time you try to rewind, but in those instances where it used to move forward slowly, the video now does nothing. It's as if you hit the pause button, only there's no way to get the video to play again. After waiting for three and a half minutes in one of the instances, we realized the only immediate way to get things back to normal was to turn the tuner off and then back on again. Across the different 522s we've had, and their various software versions, I don't recall picture freezing ever being a problem . So I would have to say this is something that was introduced in this update. Not good.

The next thing I realized is that there are still serious problems with the various time indicators for recorded events. As I stated in my last post, I think it's wonderful that they included a "Time Left" indicator on the banner. However, when that shiny new Time Left indicator doesn't work (as you'll see in a moment) it really just rubs salt in the wound. Not being able to see how long a program is, or how much of it I've watched, or how much is left to go, renders the unit, in my opinion, nearly unusable. What's the point of having a digital video recorder if I have to use the clock on the wall to keep time? It's ridiculous. In this first set of pictures, you'll see how the time remaining (and by proxy, time elapsed), and total time indicators are basically dead. Random, meaningless numbers (1193046) in the time left field in the status bar. An incorrect number (3 minutes?!?) in the total time field. And nothing, that's right NOTHING(!!!), in the new "Time Left" field on the banner. The DVR Events screen in the third picture gets the total time correct, but look at all the rest of the arrows (first and fourth pictures). PITIFUL.

Click thumbnails to enlarge.
 

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In this set of pictures, you get to see a phenomenon that's completely new on the 522. Thanks to the L201 update, the 522 exhibits some CRAZY(!!!) behavior when you turn it on or off. The first thing (and this isn't shown in the pictures) happens when you turn on the 522. Apparently, they did something that makes the 522 cache programs even when the unit is turned off. So if I turn on the 522 right now, I can actually rewind the channel that the unit was tuned to when it was last on, back through the time where the 522 was off. This is definitely kind of cool, but I know it's not supposed to operate this way. Previously, when you turned the 522 on and then hit rewind, you could only back up to the point where you turned the thing on. But now, if I turn the 522 on and hit rewind, I can just keep going back and back for who knows how long. Again, cool, but why is it caching programs when the thing is turned off? The other issues happen when you turn the 522 off and are definitely NOT cool. In this set of pictures, you'll see that sometimes the 522 can't really turn off. Hit the power button and the green light on the front of the 522 goes out, the sound disappears, the screen saver comes up, but guess what? The picture just keeps on rolling! The pictures speak for themselves. A Dish screen saver OVER a moving picture, while the 522 is turned off. Again, pitiful.

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