Running Cables

[Sapient]

Here is my stupid set of questions for the day.

I'm upgrading to HD next week, which includes replacing my 522 with a 622. Because I am changing the location of my home theater, I need to get cables to a new area of my house. There is already one line of coax to that location, so I need to get two more out there (two lines in and one out to another TV).

So I'm wondering if I can do this myself, how hard it is, and if I could just bribe the Dish installer to do it for me. I hope I can describe what I need to do.

My basement is half finished, so I can get into the basement ceiling (or the floor of my first floor) on one half of my basement. My TV is going to be on the first floor on the opposite end. So I can stick my head up into the basement ceiling and see just below where the TV will be. The cable needs to get to the far end of the house and up into the wall.

Can this be done? What if I take the cable that is there, attach a pull cord to it, pull it back out to the unfinished area, attach two more cables, and pull it back?

I'm sorry if this is stupid, or impossible to visualize. I just want to avoid having cables wrapping half way around the outside of my house and drilling holes through my new siding.

 

[navychop]

I always run my own cables. The satellite or cable installer will always try to take the easy route for him- run cables around the house and drill thru.

Sounds like you have a relatively straightforward situation. Use fish tape and fish rods.

I recommend you run 3 coax to each TV- simplest approach for feeding dual tuners. The third one is for OTA. This approach maximizes future utility and resale value. Certain D* setups do not allow diplexers (AP9?). Plus, if you DO use a separator for feeding a dual tuner STB, the extra coax might be useful to run a TV2 signal elsewhere. Don't forget to run a phone line there too, to plug your box into. Also, a couple of RJ-45 for home networking. One for future use by the STB, one to plug in a laptop or other device.

 

[Sapient]

Thanks. But I think you underestimate my ignorance. I have neither experience with, nor ownership of, fish tapes or rods. Is there any reason I can't use the cable I already have there as a pull to get my new cables through?

 

[RandallA]

"Is there any reason I can't use the cable I already have there as a pull to get my new cables through?"

No, there isn't. That's what I do, if I have an old cable already in place, I just tape the new cable to the old one and pull them both. I would suggest running 4 cables to that location now that you can.

 

[navychop]

Pulling may well work. It depends upon the radius and if there are any holes or other pinch points.

 

[Sapient]

Thanks much! I'll see what I can do.

 

[jbcheshire]

I've seen people install PVC pipe and run it the length of the floor with openings at both ends. Then you just tie a string to a pretty good sized nut and stick a shop vac on the other end to pull it to you... Then you just tape the string to the cables and pull them through..

 

[Sapient]

I think I am most concerned with getting it up the wall at the far end of my run. I'm hoping to not cut too large a hole in the drywall. I have to do some investigating to see what is actually there. I like the pvc idea, though.

 

[jbcheshire]

Well you could always remove the baseboard trim and cut a little hole there first. That way you can stick the trim up without having to patch the hole, if you aren't into the drywall fixing mode...

 

[micqn]

If I can't fish through the walls I will actually just push the coax under the base moulding and the carpet. Doors are difficult to deal with though. I wouldn't do this if you are getting paid for the work but it works well in my home.

 

[Sapient]

Good advice from all. Thanks!

 

[Sapient]

Apparently either my depth perception or my memory was WAY off. There is a plywood wall about 15 feet in front of where I need to get my cable. I can't cut throught the ceiling at that point to get at that wall, and I see no way around it. I guess this project is dead. I guess the cables are going on the outside of the house.

Unless I can drop a line two floors from my attic?

 

[VegasVoomer]

I ran a cable from the roof to the basement one time. Went from the dish into a vent on the side of the house into the attic. There was a passage leading all the way to the basement where the furnace duct was. I tied a fishing sinker to the cable and dropped it down there and it was right up against a wall on the other side of the room I needed it to be at. Drilled one hole and job was done. The attic may be a good option for you.

 

[rich88]

I'm under the impression that you have a Super Dish since you mentioned that you needed 2 more lines down to the new location. If you have a Dish 500, I don't understand why it doesn't have a DP Plus Twin since you have a dual-tuner receiver.

But, if you're upgrading to a HD 622, maybe you won't need to run another line to your new spot.

You'll need a Dish 1000 to pick-up the HD channels off the 129. The Dish 1000 comes with a DP Plus Twin which when used with diplexers only needs one line to each dual-tuner receiver (maximum of two dual-tuner receivers).

If I'm understanding you correctly, as long as that cable already going to the new location is RG6, you don't need to run any additional cable.

If you can't directly connect the TV2 line to the 1st diplexer coming from the dish 1000, you should be able to connect your TV2 line to your present satellite line, and then connect it the the VHF/UHF port on the diplexer nearest to the dish.

 

[Sapient]

I guess it is not likely to run the line from my attic. I would need this to run down an outside wall, which I assume is full of insulation. Thanks everyone for letting me think out loud.

 

[Sapient]

I'm under the impression that you have a Super Dish since you mentioned that you needed 2 more lines down to the new location. If you have a Dish 500, I don't understand why it doesn't have a DP Plus Twin since you have a dual-tuner receiver.

But, if you're upgrading to a HD 622, maybe you won't need to run another line to your new spot.

You'll need a Dish 1000 to pick-up the HD channels off the 129. The Dish 1000 comes with a DP Plus Twin which when used with diplexers only needs one line to each dual-tuner receiver (maximum of two dual-tuner receivers).

If I'm understanding you correctly, as long as that cable already going to the new location is RG6, you don't need to run any additional cable.

If you can't directly connect the TV2 line to the 1st diplexer coming from the dish 1000, you should be able to connect your TV2 line to your present satellite line, and then connect it the the VHF/UHF port on the diplexer nearest to the dish.

Wow, this is way out of my depth. So if my single line of coax running to my location is RG6, it can handle both tuner signals at once?

Will my installer know how to do this?

You are correct, by the way, that I have a Dish 500. I don't know what a DP Plus Twin is, or if I have one. I have two lines of coax coming into my house, where both are connected to my 522. From there I have two more lines of coax running to two different TVs.

 

[Jared Twomey]

yeah, dont pull any wire... as long as it is RG6 the installer should be able to use the 1 coax to run your dual-tuner and backfeed the second tv output back out... and yes, he will know how to do it. Dual tuner recievers have been around long enough, that if he doesnt... tell him to get out of your house

 

[rich88]

Wow, this is way out of my depth. So if my single line of coax running to my location is RG6, it can handle both tuner signals at once?

Will my installer know how to do this?

You are correct, by the way, that I have a Dish 500. I don't know what a DP Plus Twin is, or if I have one. I have two lines of coax coming into my house, where both are connected to my 522. From there I have two more lines of coax running to two different TVs.

1- yes

2- I'm guessing he will.

The DP Plus Twin LNB is a god-send when it comes to installations. It allows you to run just one-line to dual-tuner receiver. Then you use a "DP Separater" right behind the receiver to separate the signal into the 2 satellite inputs.

Sorry, I could draw it better than I explained it.

 

[Sapient]

Wow. I'm living in the future!

 

[navychop]

Yes, the single coax can take 2 signals from the dish and feed both tuners in your dual tuner STB, using a separator. It can also feed an OTA signal from a rooftop antenna. Or you could backfeed TV2 thru the same coax. Actually, with a little care, I believe you can feed 2 tuners, and an OTA signal from a rooftop antenna, AND backfeed to TV2. This approach would use a combination of separators and diplexers. Really not hard, installer will know what to do (famous last words).

If the current coax is good, and is RG6, then this might be the best approach for you. But there is a drawback- diplexing the OTA signal works today with current Dish (E*) equipment, and much of the D* equipment. But that may change in the future. And the OTA signal would be best if run on it's own coax.

I gather you really don't care about OTA. However, this is usually the highest quality signal you can get, and it's free, after you pay for the antenna and associated parts. The PQ is better than you'll get by subscribing to LiL from satellite. Also, Dish only provides the primary signal for HD locals (digital ATSC stations). That digital station may have 1 or more subcarriers that you can pick up OTA but won't get from Dish. Remember, digital stations can actually broadcast (multicast) up to 4 or even 6 programs simultaneously.

If the current coax is RG59 or otherwise suspect, best to replace it. And if you run new cables, it's not hard to run the extra cables. Might as well run 2 satellite cables and avoid the separator. And then if something happens to one cable, you'll have the other and can move to the separator. Or you'll have the extra for future use.

Best of luck- please let us know how it all turns out.