Signal Splitter

[Keystone7]

Hello,

I have enjoyed watching my three FTA recievers for several months now. I use a cnx-nano at every tv. The master cnx-nano I can sit the sat to 83W on Tuff Tv. I then use the (LoopOut) on the master to the other two cnx-nano's. To connect the two other cnx-nano's I use a sat splitter. This system has been working great for few months. Before I started haveing problems, the main master would be set to 83W and was turned off. I was still able to use the other recievers just fine as long as I stayed on 83W. (NOW) The master needs to be turned on and then the other two nano's will work fine. If I don't turn on the master nano, the rest will not work. I think the splitter that I am now using is going bad or something else? I just ordered a 3 ghz splitter to replace the one I think is going bad. It was just a cheap sat splitter. Anyone else had this type of program? Maybe I have been lucky up to now? Have any ideas anyone.
Keystone7

 

[Pixl]

Try leaving the master off, but have BOTH of the other two on. Might be a lnb power issue. Most of the splitters I've seen pass power only thru one port. must be the one you are watching if this is the case.

Jim

 

[Keystone7]

Thanks, I'll try that idea after I get off work tonight! K

 

[B.J.]

Hello,

I have enjoyed watching my three FTA recievers for several months now. I use a cnx-nano at every tv. The master cnx-nano I can sit the sat to 83W on Tuff Tv. I then use the (LoopOut) on the master to the other two cnx-nano's. To connect the two other cnx-nano's I use a sat splitter. This system has been working great for few months. Before I started haveing problems, the main master would be set to 83W and was turned off. I was still able to use the other recievers just fine as long as I stayed on 83W. (NOW) The master needs to be turned on and then the other two nano's will work fine. If I don't turn on the master nano, the rest will not work. I think the splitter that I am now using is going bad or something else? I just ordered a 3 ghz splitter to replace the one I think is going bad. It was just a cheap sat splitter. Anyone else had this type of program? Maybe I have been lucky up to now? Have any ideas anyone.
Keystone7

It seems apparent that you're connecting these receivers without the use of DC-blocks. Many people do this, and it works for them, but I believe that it is risky to connect the power supplies of 2 or 3 different receivers together without a DC block. Of course, when you use DC blocks, it limits what you can do, ie your master will need to be on, and control everything, which is why people risk it, and go without DC blocks. But my guess is that you've demonstrated that you have affected the hardware of at least one of your receivers via this practice. Seems like you may have either burned some component in the passthru of the master receiver, or burned out the lnb power in one or both of the slave receivers.
I really don't think your symptoms have anything to do with the splitter. It sounds like your master's passthru is no longer passing DC (which means you've destroyed some component), or that your slaves are no longer putting out DC, which also means you have destroyed some hardware. While it's also possible that you've burned out the splitter, I really can't see that happening without some component on one of the other receivers going out first.
If you have a voltmeter, it might be interesting to check the voltage coming out of your slave receivers to see if it is 13/18V when on V/H respectively, both through the current splitter and direct to each receiver, since it's possible that one of the 2 slaves is pulling up or down the voltage put out by the other. You also might try bypassing the master receiver completely to see if the slave receivers will still function, ie provide the proper LNB voltage, again both through the splitter and separately.
Anyway, it might be interesting to figure out exactly what failed, as I really have a hard time believing that it's the splitter that failed.

 

[Anole]

A proper solution would be to use a dual-output LNBF, feeding a multiswitch.
That way, any receiver could select either polarity, totally independent of the other receivers.

I'd use a 4x8 switch, just 'cause they're cheap and available, and give expansion to another LNBF if desired.
See this thread for a recommended and self-powered switch (No, the mods are not needed).

Also, see the FAQ department thread: Switch setups simplified for more complicated switch configurations.

 

[Babadem]

B.J. and Anole did make excellent points.

 

[Larry1]

For reception of TuffTV and RTV on 83w I use a single feed coming into a 3 x 4 multiswitch. It is only the horizontal signals I'm concerned with here, so only one input (the horizontal input, 15v-18v) of the multiswitch needs to be hooked up. This gives me connection to four receivers.

 

[Keystone7]

Thanks Guys,

Looks like I need to do some reading. If I do a search on the web or at one of the sponsors, just search for a dc block and where to place it when I get it? I need to read more! Thanks again!

 

[B.J.]

You used to be able to find DC blocks at Radio Shack, but they seem to have discontinued them. Sadoun used to sell them. I'm not sure if they have them anymore or not. Some of the splitters that have a power passing port have DC blocks included, except in the one power passing port, but I put the blocks at the passthru ports on all my receivers, because I don't know what's inside the receivers. Hopefully one of the dealers still sell the stand alone blocks, but I'm not sure I've seen anyone selling them recently.
But the blocks are going to require you to keep the master receiver on, and if you have have diseqC or 22KHz switches you need to power by the slaves, they need to be on the power side of the block.
Anyway, a lot of people use their receivers without DC blocks and don't have problems, but I just don't trust my luck and deal with a lack of convenience in order to protect the receivers.

 

[Keystone7]

Sat Guys,

This may seem silly, but on my two slave boxes I didn't have the lbn's turned on. Before they seems to work fine in the off settings. Now I left the master on the sat channel I wanted to see and turned it off. I went to one of the slaves and turned on the lnb and works just fine. maybe I got lucky? Both slaves are working so far. So the question is: do you turn on the slave (lnb)'s on or should they be on? I am still looking into the DC Block and have ordered a new splitter that has DC power passive on both outs. (Maybe this will work like the DC Block)?

 

[B.J.]

Sat Guys,

This may seem silly, but on my two slave boxes I didn't have the lbn's turned on. Before they seems to work fine in the off settings. Now I left the master on the sat channel I wanted to see and turned it off. I went to one of the slaves and turned on the lnb and works just fine. maybe I got lucky? Both slaves are working so far. So the question is: do you turn on the slave (lnb)'s on or should they be on? I am still looking into the DC Block and have ordered a new splitter that has DC power passive on both outs. (Maybe this will work like the DC Block)?

I don't know what the best way to do what you want is, not being familiar with those specific receivers, but it's interesting. I guess the question is where was and is the power to the LNBs coming from. If you use the DC blocks, or blocked splitter, the power has to come from the master. Some receivers keep the LNB power on even when turned off, but most DVB receivers I've used turn the power off when you turn them off, so that if you want to watch from a slaved receiver, the power has to come from the slave, AND the circuitry in the master must pass that power, and this capability seems to vary from receiver to receiver.
Relative to the two slave receivers, if both are connected to a splitter that passes DC, the question is, what happens if one receiver is on a horizontal transponder (putting out 18V), and the other receiver is on vertical (putting out 13V). The two power supplies are going to fight with each other, and the best result is that the 18V receiver will win, and you'll get horizontal on both, but it's also possible that some damage could be done to one or the other power supplies, which are both trying to regulate to different voltages.
Also it's not clear what will happen to the master receiver when you feed voltage into it's passthru when it's turned off, and the power supply isn't operating. If you assume that the master has some kind of DC block in the passthru circuitry to protect it's power supply from connected receivers, then it isn't clear how the voltage from the slaves get through, unless the DC is only blocked in one direction, but if DC can get from the slave to the LNB and also from the master to the LNB, it seems like there can be some competitions between master and slave if one is set on V and the other on H.
Anyway, how this all can work without DC blocks is real confusing to me, but apparently lots of people do it, but sometimes bad things can happen. I shut down my computer to one of those blue screens of death once when I accidently hooked up a couple receivers together (one being a computer PCI receiver) without using DC blocks. Everything eventually came back to life, but it had me using foul language for a while for doing that.
I've checked most of my receivers, and I'm pretty sure that none of them produce any voltage out of the passthru, so that suggests that there must be at least a one-way DC block on the passthru, so I THINK that should protect the slave from the master, but I'm just not clear on how the slaves can be protected from each other, or the master protected from the slaves. It's just too confusing for me, so I always use DC blocks.

 

[Keystone7]

I don't know what the best way to do what you want is, not being familiar with those specific receivers, but it's interesting. I guess the question is where was and is the power to the LNBs coming from. If you use the DC blocks, or blocked splitter, the power has to come from the master. Some receivers keep the LNB power on even when turned off, but most DVB receivers I've used turn the power off when you turn them off, so that if you want to watch from a slaved receiver, the power has to come from the slave, AND the circuitry in the master must pass that power, and this capability seems to vary from receiver to receiver.
Relative to the two slave receivers, if both are connected to a splitter that passes DC, the question is, what happens if one receiver is on a horizontal transponder (putting out 18V), and the other receiver is on vertical (putting out 13V). The two power supplies are going to fight with each other, and the best result is that the 18V receiver will win, and you'll get horizontal on both, but it's also possible that some damage could be done to one or the other power supplies, which are both trying to regulate to different voltages.
Also it's not clear what will happen to the master receiver when you feed voltage into it's passthru when it's turned off, and the power supply isn't operating. If you assume that the master has some kind of DC block in the passthru circuitry to protect it's power supply from connected receivers, then it isn't clear how the voltage from the slaves get through, unless the DC is only blocked in one direction, but if DC can get from the slave to the LNB and also from the master to the LNB, it seems like there can be some competitions between master and slave if one is set on V and the other on H.
Anyway, how this all can work without DC blocks is real confusing to me, but apparently lots of people do it, but sometimes bad things can happen. I shut down my computer to one of those blue screens of death once when I accidently hooked up a couple receivers together (one being a computer PCI receiver) without using DC blocks. Everything eventually came back to life, but it had me using foul language for a while for doing that.
I've checked most of my receivers, and I'm pretty sure that none of them produce any voltage out of the passthru, so that suggests that there must be at least a one-way DC block on the passthru, so I THINK that should protect the slave from the master, but I'm just not clear on how the slaves can be protected from each other, or the master protected from the slaves. It's just too confusing for me, so I always use DC blocks.

BJ,

Thanks, I needed to read that twice! I'm glad their are people like you that are techy so the rest of can learn! Thanks for your help. I will check with my nano manual to see what it might say about DC passing.Thanks again!

 

[Pixl]

Just another thought. Wonder what happens if you slave receiver 3 off of receiver 2 which is slaved of of the master receiver 1, using no splitter at all?

 

[Keystone7]

TantalusFLD,
I'll keep that in mind. Not sure if the cables are there to do that? Mean while, I should have that 3 ghz splitter here by Wednesday evening. Hope I didn't waste my money.

 

[Keystone7]

Cables with Switches

Hello,

Anybody have a good area on the here or on web to show how a person would cable there system? Fall is just around the corner and would like to get this done before the cold sets in.

I will be using (3) dishes with single lnb's. (One dish is on the motor).
I will be using a 4X1 DiSEqC Switch at the dishes.
I have a (ONE) 190 foot cable run back to the house.

Inside the house, my cables come in at one point and cable out to the (3) boxes.(Right now, I just use the LoopOut on my master box and (Split) off to the other two boxes from there).

Maybe I should use a (Mutiswitch)? maybe get (Dual lnbs) Really don't want to run and bury any more long cables?

Should I buy sometype of switch box for inside the house to provide for the other boxes? (Using a regular splitter at present).

There you have it. I'm still new at this and I know I can come here for the answers, Thanks SatGuys!!

Just not sure on the equiptment I need!

 

[Keystone7]

Switch Location

Hello Guys,

Right now I have Reciever >>Cable>>DiSEqc 1X4>>Motor>>signal lnbf.
I have read that it's unsafe to have it this way.
I tried to place the DiSEqc between lnbf and the Motor. Things just don't work well locating the satillites. Works better like the first line.

Next few days I will have a new 1X4 DiSEqc and a 3 ghz splitter all ports passing also if needed. Just wondering if anybody has used the first line for their setup?

 

[Keystone7]

Switches

Hello Again,

Well, I was able to get the 4X1 DiSEqC Switch moved just before the motor like suggested. (Guess what, the other 4X1 DiSEqC Switch was smoked). You guys were right on the money about where I needed to place it. Also the splitter did nothing to help and once again you guy were right again! Got a new EMP and is working great. I ordered a new (LNBF-SL2 Bullet-GEOSATpro Dual Stanard KU). I should have it this week. I bought it through one of our Gold Sponsors (SATELLITE AV)I also ordred a 1000 foot reel of RG6 off web which also will be here this week.

Inside the house I bought a mutiswitch as suggested and works great. I have only one lead to the 18 volt side. The three sat boxes go out from there. Everything looks good and works to my surprize. The question I have is do I just run the 6 footer from the other side of the dual lnbf back to the 4X1 DiSEqC Switch? And see if I get those channels off the 13 volt side? Or do I still run a new cable run back to the house and install on the mutiswitch that is empty on the 13 volts side? The cable run is 180 feet long. Really, things are looking up pretty good so far. I have learned alot here. I just want to complete my project before the cold crawels in.

I know you SatGuys will have the answers, so i'll set tight and will be checking back soon! Maybe Wendesday or Thursday my items will arrive and i'll get to work. THANKS .

 

[Babadem]

I don't know what the best way to do what you want is, not being familiar with those specific receivers, but it's interesting. I guess the question is where was and is the power to the LNBs coming from. If you use the DC blocks, or blocked splitter, the power has to come from the master. Some receivers keep the LNB power on even when turned off, but most DVB receivers I've used turn the power off when you turn them off, so that if you want to watch from a slaved receiver, the power has to come from the slave, AND the circuitry in the master must pass that power, and this capability seems to vary from receiver to receiver.
Relative to the two slave receivers, if both are connected to a splitter that passes DC, the question is, what happens if one receiver is on a horizontal transponder (putting out 18V), and the other receiver is on vertical (putting out 13V). The two power supplies are going to fight with each other, and the best result is that the 18V receiver will win, and you'll get horizontal on both, but it's also possible that some damage could be done to one or the other power supplies, which are both trying to regulate to different voltages.
Also it's not clear what will happen to the master receiver when you feed voltage into it's passthru when it's turned off, and the power supply isn't operating. If you assume that the master has some kind of DC block in the passthru circuitry to protect it's power supply from connected receivers, then it isn't clear how the voltage from the slaves get through, unless the DC is only blocked in one direction, but if DC can get from the slave to the LNB and also from the master to the LNB, it seems like there can be some competitions between master and slave if one is set on V and the other on H.
Anyway, how this all can work without DC blocks is real confusing to me, but apparently lots of people do it, but sometimes bad things can happen. I shut down my computer to one of those blue screens of death once when I accidently hooked up a couple receivers together (one being a computer PCI receiver) without using DC blocks. Everything eventually came back to life, but it had me using foul language for a while for doing that.
I've checked most of my receivers, and I'm pretty sure that none of them produce any voltage out of the passthru, so that suggests that there must be at least a one-way DC block on the passthru, so I THINK that should protect the slave from the master, but I'm just not clear on how the slaves can be protected from each other, or the master protected from the slaves. It's just too confusing for me, so I always use DC blocks.

So, should DC Blocks be used on loop-out connections only or it can be used with a regular setup that doesn't involve a loop-out? Where in the chain should the DC block be placed?

 

[Keystone7]

So, should DC Blocks be used on loop-out connections only or it can be used with a regular setup that doesn't involve a loop-out? Where in the chain should the DC block be placed?

Babadem, I'm not sure about the dc blocks myself. Hard time even finding them. I am not slaving anything. I am now going through a mutiswitch that puts out to the other two recievers. Before I was doing the (Loopout) thing, but things didn't work out so good. If I am right, this way should be safer for my recievers.

 

[B.J.]

So, should DC Blocks be used on loop-out connections only or it can be used with a regular setup that doesn't involve a loop-out? Where in the chain should the DC block be placed?

Basically any time there is a chance of DC from one receiver getting into the electronics of the 2nd receiver or interacting with the DC of the 2nd receiver.
When I first started doing digital, I don't remember them selling those power pass splitters (although they probably did), so to slave a digital receiver off an analog receiver I just used a regular TV style splitter, which passed DC on all ports. So to separate the power, I'd buy DC blocks from RS and put them on the digital receivers, and let the power from the analog go through to the LNB. Re WHERE, it's mainly just "between" receivers, but you do have to make sure that you aren't blocking DC from the master receiver to the LNB, and you don't want to block DC from any receiver to a switch, because switches require power.

I used to have a setup whereby I had an analog receiver sending DC to the C-band and Ku-band LNBs, each through a plain splitter. The other port on each splitter I had going to each of the 2 inputs of a tone burst A/B diseqC switch. The main port on the switch went to my DVB receiver. I couldn't put the DC blocks between the DVB receiver and the switch, because then the switch wouldn't work, so I had to put the DC-blocks between the switch and each splitter. Now, I accomplish the same thing using a power pass splitter, using the power pass leg on the analog receiver. BTW, for some reason, I wasn't able to do the same thing using a 22KHz switch because for some reason, it seems like most 22KHz switches are of rather poor quality, and they allow signal from both ports to leak through to the DVB receiver. Problem was, that when selecting between two LNBs powered all the time via an analog receiver, the power is always on, and signal is always coming in through both legs, whereas if you just connect a 22KHz switch directly to LNBs, then the LNBs only get power when they are selected, so there is no interferrence from the other leg. I wish I could find the old high quality switches like I used to use, but I've read similar things from other people, saying that there is poor isolation between the ports of most or many of the switches sold today. But I guess that's to be expected... my first switch probably cost me something in the $20-30 range, while now those things are down in the $3-$5 range, so they all seem to be CHEAPly made.

Anyway, I have a bunch of DC-blocks laying around, so I just always use them between receivers any time I have more than one receiver running off the same signal, and sometimes I've had as many as 4 or 5 receivers using the same signal via splitters and pass-thrus, so I've sometimes had 3 or 4 DC blocks on one signal.