Still no ground

[ryotgz]

Most posters in this thread are well aware of how much fun I had trying to get D* installed. Everything has been going great and I noticed off the bat there was no ground wire from the Dish to a ground. When the installer left he left behind a piece of paper for any service issues to call the service manager complete with ext. At first I called the guy who sold me the system and he acted like it was no big deal there was no ground. So a few days later I called the service mgr complimenting the installer and stating there was no ground wire ran. Today is about 7 days later and no response. This is kinda irritating because the paper with service manger ph# on it states in "If you get my voice mail, leave a message. I WILL CALL BACK." So called again just now stating no return call even though the paper says you would call back in caps. In the message I stated that we had some yard work done that required an inspector to come out and he noticed the Dish not being grounded and told him they were coming out to fix this. They can't dispute that because we really did have yard work and have mounds of dirt in the yard from a replaced sewer line.

Yes I could run the ground wire myself, but the Dish is on the roof and I only have a 6' ladder and don't want to kill myself. If I still don't get a response will calling D* corporate help any?

 

[Jimbo]

Most posters in this thread are well aware of how much fun I had trying to get D* installed. Everything has been going great and I noticed off the bat there was no ground wire from the Dish to a ground. When the installer left he left behind a piece of paper for any service issues to call the service manager complete with ext. At first I called the guy who sold me the system and he acted like it was no big deal there was no ground. So a few days later I called the service mgr complimenting the installer and stating there was no ground wire ran. Today is about 7 days later and no response. This is kinda irritating because the paper with service manger ph# on it states in "If you get my voice mail, leave a message. I WILL CALL BACK." So called again just now stating no return call even though the paper says you would call back in caps. In the message I stated that we had some yard work done that required an inspector to come out and he noticed the Dish not being grounded and told him they were coming out to fix this. They can't dispute that because we really did have yard work and have mounds of dirt in the yard from a replaced sewer line.

Yes I could run the ground wire myself, but the Dish is on the roof and I only have a 6' ladder and don't want to kill myself. If I still don't get a response will calling D* corporate help any?

Is it grounded at the ground block ?

 

[ryotgz]

Is it grounded at the ground block ?

Ground block?

The only wire coming from the dish is the RG6 cable. One of the previous installers ran a RG6 cable with the ground attached to it, but was taken down. The new RG6 cable has no ground attached to it. Nor is there a separate run.

 

[Jimbo]

Ground block?

The only wire coming from the dish is the RG6 cable. One of the previous installers ran a RG6 cable with the ground attached to it, but was taken down. The new RG6 cable has no ground attached to it. Nor is there a separate run.

So you have straight runs from your dish right into the recvrs ?
No ground block where it comes to the house ?

 

[ryotgz]

So you have straight runs from your dish right into the recvrs ?
No ground block where it comes to the house ?

It goes from the receiver, inside the house to the 4 port SWIM to the receivers. There is no ground from the SWIM going anywhere.

 

[Jimbo]

It goes from the receiver, inside the house to the 4 port SWIM to the receivers. There is no ground from the SWIM going anywhere.

There should always be a ground block between the dish and the recvr, normally it's right before it goes into the house, or the closes place on the house from the dish.

 

[ryotgz]

There should always be a ground block between the dish and the recvr, normally it's right before it goes into the house, or the closes place on the house from the dish.

Not on this install. One wire going straight into the house.

 

[RandallA]

ryotgz,

I thought you said there was a ground block outside when you had Dish Network. Could you use that same ground block for Directv? You'll probably need a jumper cable.

Dish (lnb) >> ground block >> 4 ports swim >> to receivers.

 

[ryotgz]

ryotgz,

I thought you said there was a ground block outside when you had Dish Network. Could you use that same ground block for Directv? You'll probably need a jumper cable.

Dish (lnb) >> ground block >> 4 ports swim >> to receivers.

I believe the attached picture is what you are referring to. If so I could use that but I don't have the proper tool for the RG6. I have a crimper instead of the compression tool. Would a ground need to be run from the satellite if that is used instead? My DN install had the satellite ground line running to the attached picture, but never made a ground connection anywhere beyond that.

Well see what happens when they listen to my message tomorrow. I would rather them come out to ground the install instead of me trying to get it hooked up correctly. It shouldn't take them that long. I shouldn't have to be there when they do it and there is a new ground bracket from one of the previous D* installers right next to the run that isn't being used.

 

[Jimbo]

I believe the attached picture is what you are referring to. If so I could use that but I don't have the proper tool for the RG6. I have a crimper instead of the compression tool. Would a ground need to be run from the satellite if that is used instead? My DN install had the satellite ground line running to the attached picture, but never made a ground connection anywhere beyond that.

Well see what happens when they listen to my message tomorrow. I would rather them come out to ground the install instead of me trying to get it hooked up correctly. It shouldn't take them that long. I shouldn't have to be there when they do it and there is a new ground bracket from one of the previous D* installers right next to the run that isn't being used.

Yup, thats the one ... I wonder, you said they had one going from the dish to that ground block ?
Possibly he forgot it, got distracted or something, might be an honest mistake, or he couldn't find a place for a ground there ... hard to say.

 

[ryotgz]

Yup, thats the one ... I wonder, you said they had one going from the dish to that ground block ?
Possibly he forgot it, got distracted or something, might be an honest mistake, or he couldn't find a place for a ground there ... hard to say.

Thats from my E* install which was in a different area. The E* satellite had a ground cable from it to that ground block. But since it wasn't where the D* setup is I took it all down.

As for the D* install. The second installer that I had at my house actually put a ground bracket on the power pole going down into the basement and put a wire on it for it to be grounded, but he left. The third and final installer just didn't do anything at all with that bracket and just ran a RG6 cable straight into the house. No ground cables, ground blocks or anything else related to that.

 

[ryotgz]

Got a call earlier today and I met them out there. He ran a ground cable from the SWIM to the cold water line where our service box connects to the water line. He said there didn't need to be one ran from the dish to the ground.

 

[Jimbo]

Got a call earlier today and I met them out there. He ran a ground cable from the SWIM to the cold water line where our service box connects to the water line. He said there didn't need to be one ran from the dish to the ground.

I've never ran one from the dish to a ground either.
My personal set up has a 16' pole sunk in concrete 3' into the ground, so I see no need for it to have a separate ground as it's grounded to the earth ground.

 

[cfb]

Presuming the pole actually touches the earth and not just the concrete it might be okay. But usually the grounding rod needs to go ~8' into the ground. If the ground is always wet around the pole, then functionally there shouldnt be a problem. But if its bone dry any of the time...

Got a call earlier today and I met them out there. He ran a ground cable from the SWIM to the cold water line where our service box connects to the water line. He said there didn't need to be one ran from the dish to the ground.

Check your local code for grounding. Most require connection to the grounding rod in the main electrical panel, or to a sub panel thats suitably grounded back to the ground in the main panel. Connecting to a water pipe is in some areas okay for the 'third prong' grounding in an electrical outlet. The ground for satellite is not only for draining static, its also for draining current created by nearby lightning strikes. In some areas code requires that the cold, hot and gas lines are bonded together, so that if normal household 110/220v ends up shorted to the gas line, its got somewhere to go.

If your lines are triple bonded, I dont think you want lightning level current coming from the satellite dish finding its way to your gas line.

For the record, I've never had directv's installers connect a proper ground. Its a pain in the butt to do, so they always tell me I dont need it. I just end up doing it myself the right way.

 

[Jimbo]

Presuming the pole actually touches the earth and not just the concrete it might be okay. But usually the grounding rod needs to go ~8' into the ground. If the ground is always wet around the pole, then functionally there shouldnt be a problem. But if its bone dry any of the time...



Check your local code for grounding. Most require connection to the grounding rod in the main electrical panel, or to a sub panel thats suitably grounded back to the ground in the main panel. Connecting to a water pipe is in some areas okay for the 'third prong' grounding in an electrical outlet. The ground for satellite is not only for draining static, its also for draining current created by nearby lightning strikes. In some areas code requires that the cold, hot and gas lines are bonded together, so that if normal household 110/220v ends up shorted to the gas line, its got somewhere to go.

If your lines are triple bonded, I dont think you want lightning level current coming from the satellite dish finding its way to your gas line.

For the record, I've never had directv's installers connect a proper ground. Its a pain in the butt to do, so they always tell me I dont need it. I just end up doing it myself the right way.

Have you EVER placed a 8' Ground Rod ?

I have as we used them at work for awhile, shortly afterwards they changed rules and NO ONE uses a 8' Ground rod anymore that I'm aware of.

Really want to be on top of an 8' ladder swinging a sledge ?

When the POWER company uses a 8' ground, then I'll consider it again.

 

[ryotgz]

Check your local code for grounding. Most require connection to the grounding rod in the main electrical panel, or to a sub panel thats suitably grounded back to the ground in the main panel. Connecting to a water pipe is in some areas okay for the 'third prong' grounding in an electrical outlet. The ground for satellite is not only for draining static, its also for draining current created by nearby lightning strikes. In some areas code requires that the cold, hot and gas lines are bonded together, so that if normal household 110/220v ends up shorted to the gas line, its got somewhere to go.

Our house was built in the mid 50s and there is no ground rod. In our basement the electrical panel grounds to the cold water line that is directly above it. This also is the same location where the D* RG6 line comes in and goes to the SWIM and was grounded right next to where the electrical panel is grounded. I am assuming this is the only way it can be done unless I want to purchase a ground rod.

 

[Jimbo]

Our house was built in the mid 50s and there is no ground rod. In our basement the electrical panel grounds to the cold water line that is directly above it. This also is the same location where the D* RG6 line comes in and goes to the SWIM and was grounded right next to where the electrical panel is grounded. I am assuming this is the only way it can be done unless I want to purchase a ground rod.

The concern with the Cold water line is if it's NOT right where it comes into the house, if it's where it comes in your fine.

The issue is in many cases people have replaced the copper with PVC and no longer have a connected ground, so as long as your using it where it comes in your good.

 

[ryotgz]

The concern with the Cold water line is if it's NOT right where it comes into the house, if it's where it comes in your fine.

The issue is in many cases people have replaced the copper with PVC and no longer have a connected ground, so as long as your using it where it comes in your good.

The water comes in at the front of the house. Both grounds are connected at the back of the house.

 

[cfb]

Thats probably okay but not to code for electrical safety, but its not at all suitable for the ground for the dish. Fine for static dissipation, but if you get a near lightning strike the ground will pass all that current through the water pipe, under the house, where it'll arc to any other nearby metal on its way to the front of the house.

Have you EVER placed a 8' Ground Rod ?

Nope, I just use the one that came with the house.

shortly afterwards they changed rules and NO ONE uses a 8' Ground rod anymore that I'm aware of.

Who are 'they'? Problems with a shorter ground rod are that corrosion can reduce the effectiveness over time. The 8' length is usually good for 50+ years, and the NEC still calls for it. But I guess some folks are just shooting for what'll work for a couple of years and then becomes someone elses problem.

Really want to be on top of an 8' ladder swinging a sledge ?

Usually one digs a hole or uses an auger. Unless the house foots on solid rock, its not that big of a job. I mean, its only the safety anchor for the entire homes electrical system and a point for a lightning drain. Hardly any big deal

[quoteWhen the POWER company uses a 8' ground, then I'll consider it again.[/QUOTE]

The power company should be using methods that comply with the NEC and local code. If they arent, then they arent doing a good job and they're putting the homeowner at risk. That doesnt make it 'right', it just makes them lazy.

If Joey the power company guy jumped off a bridge, would you?

 

[cparker]

I put in a second ground rod below my dish installation. 8 foot ground rod. I dug a hole about 1 shovel depth to give me a "bowl" to start out with. Then I added water and basically PUSHED the ground rod into the ground. No, it's not as easy as it sounds. It's a lot of twist, push, pull, add water, twist, push, pull.

Got about half way in before I got smarter. Got my 1/2" hammer drill, set it to hammer full, chucked up a bit I had with a socket that fit over the ground rod and let it do its thing. It hammered it the rest of the way in. I live in the north east and the ground was hard. Not like in Florida at my brother's house where you're pushing through mostly sand.

Once that ground rod was in it had to be bonded to the main house ground. So I ran about 75 ft of #6 wire around the house to where the main house ground rod is and I bonded it to that ground rod. If you have multiple ground rods, they have to be bonded. I now have a THIRD ground rod as I have built a workshop with its own 60amp panel detached from the house by about 50 feet. All 3 ground rods are bonded.

You don't ground the dish antennas to dissipate a lightning strike. If lightning DOES hit, all bets are off as lightning does screwy things. Having the antenna grounded (and this goes for OTA antennas as well) constantly dissipates the static charge they pick up as airborne particles (dust) blow across the antenna. Dissipating the static charge makes them less LIKELY to be a lightning target.

For what it's worth I think I recall reading that burying an 8ft ground rod horizontally is also acceptable under certain conditions. But you'd have to look at the NEC to confirm and understand under what conditions it's acceptable and exactly what the procedure is.

Yes, it's a huge pain in the butt. I also wanted to try to do things right. It's my house, my family, and my equipment.