The quality of HD channels?

[wcnghj]

I have been a DISH subscriber since this February and can now say I've noticed a noticeable decline in HD picture quality. Netflix HD streaming from my Xbox looks better and less blotchy than DISH HD does.

Does anybody know what is up with this? Have they been reducing the bitrate on HD Channels? I really don't think it is my receiver, and I know it isn't my TV..

Thanks,
wcnghj

 

[KAB]

Many of us have been discussing the exact opposite. Have you checked to verify that the receiver is set to 720p or 1080i? Software upgrades have been known to change it from time to time.

 

[Tampa8]

Couldn't disagree more. PQ has never looked so good. When a channel is showing true HD, it looks great on Dish. At no time do I see netflix resemble the PQ of a Dish HD channel that is showing HD content.

 

[TommyF@DISH Network]

My name is Thomas Faust with DISH Network. I agree with KAB with checking the receiver's hd output.
To do so:
1. Go into Main Menu.
2. Then numbers 6 then 8.
Get back to me on here if that fixed it or not.

 

[Scherrman]

What resolution do you guys prefer to have it on? 1080i or 720p?

 

[3HaloODST]

What resolution do you guys prefer to have it on? 1080i or 720p?

I personally prefer 720p. I prefer 720p because 1.) It's progressive and 2.) It's 60FPS.

Interlacing was first introduced on the television in the 1950's. It was designed for the CRT tube as it saved bandwidth and reduced flicker. Nowadays on our LCD TV's which are natively progressive all it does is add an extra step (deinterlacing) that reduces quality. This is why there is virtually no difference in 1080i and 720p (other than framerate.)

 

[TonyT@DISH Network]

Hi, this is Anthony Thomas with DISH Network Customer Service. Just wanted to clarify a little about resolution, as this can be a highly debated topic. There is a general rule I use when determining this. ALWAYS default to the native resolution of the screen when connected with an HD source, whether it be DISH Network or another device or television provider. If your TV is native 720p, the 720p setting should be used. This requires less processing by the chip in the tv, and gives the best picture to your display. If you have a 1080i or 1080P set, set the resolution to 1080i, as the tv (if 1080p) will deinterlace and display 1080p, even though it shows the signal coming in as 1080i. These changes on the box only affect the HD output (HDMI or Component Video). To take this a step further, Blu-ray is FORMATTED 1080p, as are some VOD now. This of course gives the best display on a 1080p set as there is no processing needed in displaying the image. On a 720p set, it really has no affect on picture quality setting the resolution higher, as the TV cannot display the resolution native to the source, but it does look sweet anyway!

Seperate of that is the refresh (60HZ vs 120HZ etc). This is the frequency at which the panel itself refreshs EVERY LINE on the display. Although related to video quality, it is slightly different then actual resolution. In an i or interlaced picture, a 60HZ frequency would refresh the entire screen 30 times in a second, half the lines on one pass, half on the second. On a p or progressive scan, the whole picture refreshes 60 times in the same second. Hard to see no matter what. The big push for the 120HZ and subsequent "faster refresh" tv's was Blu-ray. Video from most devices streams at 30 fps, and Blu-ray is 24FPS(and now 1080p VOD). What that meant was that on a 60 HZ tv, the picture would refresh frequently with Blu-ray and "lose" some frames in the middle of a refresh, while the video at 30 FPS did not. Solution, 120hz and faster. The screen could refresh 5 times with all 24 frames in that second on Blu-ray and 4 times with 30 frames on video. No loss. Hopefully this makes sense, as the post itself can be hard to follow. Most of this is not noticeable to the human eye, except that part in the film where you get motion sick due to fast camera panning and insane scenery. Hope this helps!

 

[Jim5506]

A 1080X1920 @ 30 fps picture has 62,208000 pixels per second and a 720x280 @60 fps has 52,296,000 pixels per second, about 12 % more for the 1080i display, but if you look at Dish Network's 1080i frames at 1080X1440 @ 30 fps you get 46,699,200 which is 18% fewer pixels per second than the 720p frame.

As you can see the various flavors of 1080i fall both above and below the 720p, OTA @ 1080X1920 might look better if given full bandwidth and Dish satellite 1080i @ 1080X1440 might look a little worse, that is if the eye can distinguish AND your display is capable of reproducing it.

 

[wcnghj]

Hello,

I've been bouncing back between 720p and 1080i to try and see if I can see a difference. Based on threads here, I settled on 720p. I have also tried both Component and HDMI with no visible difference. In addition, I have worked around with my TVs settings.

I am thinking, based on Netflix HD looking better, it is my receiver. I don't remember if it's been like this all along, but I have the 222k and the menus are by no means in HD, if you know what I mean.

 

[TonyT@DISH Network]

I do agree with you Jim on the "various flavors of 1080i," but I think it also follows along the same lines as varying degrees of 1080 and 720. They are denoting general display settings when advertised 720p as some 720p sets are 1280x720 and some are 1366x733, progressively scanned of course. They denote the "family" to which they belong. I noticed it on spec sheets for different manufacturers. Same instance with 1080p. To clarify what you are talking about to anyone just joining you are basically multiplying those numbers together to get the number of pixels on the screen, then the number of times they are refreshed per second. Can get really confusing, especially when you consider on some sources, the tv starts using "line doubling" or some other picture filling technology to get the whole picture full (SD sources, etc).

 

[TonyT@DISH Network]

Hi wcnghj, you normally will not notice the difference between the two unless you video tape it with a really good camera that you can playback ultra slow and "watch" the lines being drawn. However, I am curious about your situation where the picture does not seem so good. You have a 222k, hooked up with HDMI currently and set to 720p (a good native for sports, btw). Do you see "staircases" in the lines or where is the picture quality not so good?

 

[Jim5506]

wcnghj, I have a ViP211 connected by HDMI to a native 720p LCD display and my menus are very sharp with no stairstepping on angled letters or round letters.

It sounds like your receiver is not outputting in Hd for whatever reason.

I'd first check MENU, 6, 7 and make sure the TV HD output type is either 720p or 1080i.

 

[KAB]

I do agree with you Jim on the "various flavors of 1080i," but I think it also follows along the same lines as varying degrees of 1080 and 720. They are denoting general display settings when advertised 720p as some 720p sets are 1280x720 and some are 1366x733, progressively scanned of course. They denote the "family" to which they belong. I noticed it on spec sheets for different manufacturers. Same instance with 1080p. To clarify what you are talking about to anyone just joining you are basically multiplying those numbers together to get the number of pixels on the screen, then the number of times they are refreshed per second. Can get really confusing, especially when you consider on some sources, the tv starts using "line doubling" or some other picture filling technology to get the whole picture full (SD sources, etc).

OK, I'll be the first. WHO ARE YOU GUYS??. About four of you have been coming out of the woodwork acting like the new Messiahs. And one of you doesn't know their A** from a hole in the ground. Seriously, I doubt any one of you "experts" know half of what some of us VETS know. So, maybe you should be sitting back and learning before you start instructing. No offense to you personally, but some of your peers should not be here.

 

[3HaloODST]

A 1080X1920 @ 30 fps picture has 62,208000 pixels per second and a 720x280 @60 fps has 52,296,000 pixels per second, about 12 % more for the 1080i display

12% sounds like a great number on paper but when people see it with their eyes there's a very minute difference. Especially taking into account that having to deinterlace can reduce quality. 1080i does technically have greater spatial resolution (1920x1080i anyway,) but I much prefer the temporal resolution of 720p (at least, when the channel itself is 720p.) 1080i may benefit a tad with movies and other such material that is 24fps, or 30fps, but really, the difference is very small considering that with 1080i on a progressive display (virtually any modern HDTV sans CRT variants) needs some of the finer details blurred out in order to prevent flicker.

Interlacing needs to die.

 

[primetimeguy]

OK, I'll be the first. WHO ARE YOU GUYS??. About four of you have been coming out of the woodwork acting like the new Messiahs. And one of you doesn't know their A** from a hole in the ground. Seriously, I doubt any one of you "experts" know half of what some of us VETS know. So, maybe you should be sitting back and learning before you start instructing. No offense to you personally, but some of your peers should not be here.

I'll be the second.

 

[3HaloODST]

OK, I'll be the first. WHO ARE YOU GUYS??. About four of you have been coming out of the woodwork acting like the new Messiahs. And one of you doesn't know their A** from a hole in the ground. Seriously, I doubt any one of you "experts" know half of what some of us VETS know. So, maybe you should be sitting back and learning before you start instructing. No offense to you personally, but some of your peers should not be here.

I sort of thought it was neat that they are here trying to help out. Yeah, they sound like typical CSR's that you talk to on the phone, but I dunno I feel like at least they're trying to care.

 

[wcnghj]

Just a quick correction, I have a 722k, and the output is defiantly set on 720p. The TVs information screen confirms this.

I guess I am referencing a type of "unclairity" in the picture and notice that the image on HD channels is blotchy. I don't think it's my TV because things from my Netflix HD/ Zune Marketplace on my Xbox don't have this blotchyness.

When I discuss the menus, I mean that I don't believe the menus are in HD by any means. They aren't very sharp. Due to other issues(slow menus/program guide) this is my third receiver since February. The program guide is once again slow, so I'm not sure where to go from here(i.e., it takes up to three seconds to pop up after pressing the guide button at times).


Thanks,
wcnghj

 

[bobvick]

OK, I'll be the first. WHO ARE YOU GUYS??. About four of you have been coming out of the woodwork acting like the new Messiahs. And one of you doesn't know their A** from a hole in the ground. Seriously, I doubt any one of you "experts" know half of what some of us VETS know. So, maybe you should be sitting back and learning before you start instructing. No offense to you personally, but some of your peers should not be here.

I agree with you, they are mostly posting the same thing that other members have posted, but they have the heir about them that because xxx@Dish Network has now posted the exact same information that it now carries "authority." I wonder if any of them have messed with this stuff (satellite tv) for half as long as most of us here? I also wonder if they all use the product that they are advising us about?

 

[Barry Erick]

I wonder if the guy has a defective receiver as it sounds like very low resolution (blotchiness) is coming out of the receiver. This can be caused by a lousy HDMI cable, but he has tried Component. Just for fun, have you tried the hdmi cable coming from your blu ray, or changing the hdmi input of your tv?

 

[jerryez]

I am sure that the Dish guys are just trying to help, but most of their answers sound canned, like they are copying them right out of a book. They need to personalize their answers and not be so formal. Welcome to Sat Guys, guys or girls.