Thinking about coming back, but...

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mnassour

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Nov 1, 2004
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OK folks, I've been away from Dish (and this board) for quite a while, almost six years now. I'm considering coming back to Dish as I'm having issues with Spectrum and its waning cablecard support for TiVo. So I've still got a basic understanding of how satellite works, but some of the new receivers and features recently introduced by Dish have me a bit confused, even after reading our site here and dish.com. Maybe I can get some info? (I see it still says "Guru" by my name, but I sure don't feel like one right now! ;)

First of all, I see that when I go to sign up, the local channels have been broken out. I still have the old OTA USB adapter for my previous Dish DVR that did a pretty good job of recording locals and their subchannels on my old DVR. Any chance this still works with the new equipment?


When I try to signup online, I am offered a Hopper 2 or a Hopper Duo DVR. But elsewhere in the website Dish is offering the Hopper 3. Is the three currently available for all subscribers?

What are the current ongoing disputes? What channels has Dish dropped and are unlikely to return? I see “HBOMax” all over the place but are the actual HBO feeds back on satellite?

At the end of two years, how much have programming prices been going up. Can we still call and renegotiate the third year?

I see “Dish 55” for seniors, but no pricing on the website. What kind of discounts can I (as an old coot! :) ) expect?

Thanks so much for any help ya'll can provide. I've got a local dealer who still installs Dish and DirecTV, so I won't have to fool with any national install desks. I had ENOUGH of that when I went to DirecTV a few years back!
 
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ethanlerma

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First of all, I see that when I go to sign up, the local channels have been broken out. I still have the old OTA USB adapter for my previous Dish DVR that did a pretty good job of recording locals and their subchannels on my old DVR. Any chance this still works with the new equipment?
Depends, do you have a picture of it? Sounds like the early single tuner model for 211z/Hopper2000, which should work fine but a picture and/or the info on the sticker would help confirm that. You might be able to get a newer dual-tuner model out of the tech once he makes the install as well (dunno if that’s allowed but I’ve gotten free WiFi dongles for my Wally’s before so I guess it’s worth a shot).

When I try to signup online, I am offered a Hopper 2 or a Hopper Duo DVR. But elsewhere in the website Dish is offering the Hopper 3. Is the three currently available for all subscribers?
I think you need to call for the Hopper3. From what I know, they run your credit and based on how solid of a credit score you have they either give you a H3 system for free or for a one time fee. If a fee is mentioned you can usually negotiate for it to be waived since they want your business at the end of the day, but be prepared for an attempt to be talked out of one and convinced you only need a HWS/Duo.

What are the current ongoing disputes? What channels has Dish dropped and are unlikely to return? I see “HBOMax” all over the place but are the actual HBO feeds back on satellite?
HBO and Cinemax are back in both satellite feeds and app form in the case of HBO Max. It is less channels then before however, only 6 linear HBO channels out of the which 2 are internet delivered and therefor non-recordable. Right now there isn’t any notable disputes, besides regional sport networks that are likely not coming back anytime soon if ever.

At the end of two years, how much have programming prices been going up. Can we still call and renegotiate the third year?
You lose around $30-$40 in discounts a the beginning of the third year depending on the package you go for and equipment you get. And yes, you can still call to renegotiate at any time you are not under contract. Flex pack also exists now which probably wasn’t there when you left, it allows (as it’s name implies) some flexibility in your package because it has a reasonably cheap base package you can then add/remove extras to as you need them. I would still get one of the Americas Top packages initially since they are discounted but at the end of the two years it is something to look into.

I see “Dish 55” for seniors, but no pricing on the website. What kind of discounts can I (as an old coot! :) ) expect?
As a youngling myself I’m actually unsure of this one, I believe it is not a discount but rather a promotion however. Someone else that has it can clarify.

Thanks so much for any help ya'll can provide. I've got a local dealer who still installs Dish and DirecTV, so I won't have to fool with any national install desks. I had ENOUGH of that when I went to DirecTV a few years back!
If they give you the same prices as advertised online then I guess that’s fine, just keep in mind that some of these dealers might do stuff that makes them more money at the end of the day, like sign you up for extras you don’t want or install equipment that is most convenient to them. If you walk/call in knowing exactly what you want/need you should be fine.
 
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chuckster_dude

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Oct 2, 2006
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Buffalo, NY
What are the current ongoing disputes? What channels has Dish dropped and are unlikely to return? I see “HBOMax” all over the place but are the actual HBO feeds back on satellite?
Regional Sports Networks (RSN) are sparse if not totally non-existent on DISH. If you're a fan of your home team on any major sports league that is on an RSN, do your homework so you don't discover it after the fact that DISH doesn't carry that RSN (and probably never will).
 
dweber

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Dish Seniors over 55 receive the following perks.
1) 1 Free Movie Certificate per month.
2) Dish Protect Gold for the cost of Dish Protect which is $10.99 instead of $13.99
3) I also believe they give you Dish Protect Gold for free for the first 6 months.
 
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mnassour

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Nov 1, 2004
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Thanks so much, folks! Sorry I didn't get back before now. Now that HBO's back, Dish is once again a possibility for us. The RSNs have never been a big deal in this household, I think I'm going to watch baseball, then PFFFT! I do like college football in the fall and frankly, Spectrum has everyone else beat on that score. But if they can no longer support cablecard or supply a decent DVR, then they don't get my business.

And finally, on the install. I understand (hopefully this is wrong) that my local guy is no longer doing Dish. Is, oh what was it called, DNSC, still doing Dish installs? And are there any thoughts on their, well, competency? After my fiasco with AT&T over DirecTV (FIVE trips to get a dual dish system installed and running), I'd really like to give my money to a local, RESPONSIBLE, dealer if at all possible. And sometimes, a free install is worth what you pay for it.

Here are a couple of pics of the dongle. I think it was indeed the first one Dish produced from at least six years back.

Also, where might I find a printable list of every single channel that Dish has up there?

And Hello Scott! :wave I'm glad to see you folks are still here. There seems to be a lot of satellite that's disappeared in recent years.
 

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mnassour

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That makes sense. Do I just ask for the two-tuner dongle, or does it have a name and/or model number?
 
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ethanlerma

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And finally, on the install. I understand (hopefully this is wrong) that my local guy is no longer doing Dish. Is, oh what was it called, DNSC, still doing Dish installs? And are there any thoughts on their, well, competency? After my fiasco with AT&T over DirecTV (FIVE trips to get a dual dish system installed and running), I'd really like to give my money to a local, RESPONSIBLE, dealer if at all possible. And sometimes, a free install is worth what you pay for it.
I might be wrong here, but I believe DNSC installers are just the normal Dish employees (or am I confusing those with contract workers?). Either way you are getting something vetoed/done by Dish, which is usually what you want (or not?). Found this page on the Dish website that might help with the search for local installers as well (again, this list probably only shows Dish authorized retailers, so it might not be complete).

That makes sense. Do I just ask for the two-tuner dongle, or does it have a name and/or model number?
Just dual tuner OTA dongle should be fine, there is two models of it but either one would be an upgrade to the one you have. The newest one has a non-detachable USB cord on it.

Also, where might I find a printable list of every single channel that Dish has up there?
You can check out this official site by Dish, or this unofficial one by James Long with way more details then necessary if that peaks your interests.
 
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mnassour

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My gosh, and James Long is still around as well? It's old home week! :party His site was always excellent, but Dish's official list is what I'll print out. And, of course, I've got one more thing.

Even after reading the threads here, I'm still a bit turned around as to how a Joey can be connected over Ethernet. Right now, I have my TiVos on my home network along with the PCs and everything else. That's what I'd like to do with Dish. But if necessary, I can do a home run from the Hopper to the Joey in the bedroom, where coax is not available. Will either or both of these work?
 
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ethanlerma

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Even after reading the threads here, I'm still a bit turned around as to how a Joey can be connected over Ethernet. Right now, I have my TiVos on my home network along with the PCs and everything else. That's what I'd like to do with Dish. But if necessary, I can do a home run from the Hopper to the Joey in the bedroom, where coax is not available. Will either or both of these work?
Small rundown on how that works then, Joey's and Hopper's connect via a IP (Internet Protocol) connection done on either your own home network router, or on one hosted by the Hopper if you don't have internet. The coax used for wired Joey's don't actually carry any data from the satellite dish itself, but rather a MoCA communication line back to the Hopper that acts as a server. Since this MoCA connection in nothing more then a LAN connection in coax cable form, you can use Ethernet or WiFi if you get creative with mesh access points. As long as both the server (Hopper) and clients (Joeys) see themselves on the same subnet (eg 192.168.1.0 or 10.0.0.0) the devices will communicate and work. I believe your TiVo's work on the same principle but don't quote me on that since I've never had TiVo's.

Here is the issue though, Dish officially does not allow installation of wired Joey's using ethernet/WIFI, and wireless Joey's can only be installed with the WIFI access point they provide. So you would need to either allow the tech to run a new coax line, or install the Joey(s) in a room that does have coax ran to it and once he leaves use ethernet or any other means you prefer to connect the Joey's in the rooms you want afterwards. Just don't expect any support from dish if you do this, and a tech will outright refuse to troubleshoot/work on an installation involving ethernet connected Joey's.
 
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mnassour

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Due to several issues, there's going to be no coax anywhere near a bedroom Joey. Right now, I have the main TiVo (a Roamio Pro) acting as a server for a TiVo mini in the bedroom. They talk quite nicely to each other over the house Ethernet network. There is also a separate off-network Ethernet cable between the two locations. So as long as one of those will work, I'm golden.

I read a note from Scott in one of the other threads warning that indeed, Dish does not support Ethernet connection of Joeys and indeed has the ability to disable it at any time. At that point I guess I'm getting a wireless Joey and sticking its wireless access point on one of the switches I have in the house.

Maybe it would make sense just to go ahead and get the wireless Joey with its access point?
 
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ethanlerma

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At that point I guess I'm getting a wireless Joey and sticking its wireless access point on one of the switches I have in the house.

Maybe it would make sense just to go ahead and get the wireless Joey with its access point?
I would recommend going this route. You wont get the newest Joey (the current Wireless Joey is based on the Wired 2.0 model, with 3.0 being the newest Wired model released to the public), but you will be able to have the tech install it any place in range of the provided access point, then once he leaves disconnect the access point and hardwire the Joey since the Wireless model has an ethernet port as well. If you ever need a tech visit or the functionality gets axed like Scott claims (which is very unlikely at this point, the Joey's have been able to do this since launch and it has been close to a decade at this point) you can always unplug your ethernet cable then reconnect the access point. I actually have my Wireless Joey setup this way, makes a lot of difference in terms of latency depending on how your network is setup.
 
navychop

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I wish to reiterate, accept nothing less than a Hopper 3. Many reasons, even if you never use all 16 tuners.

I have a single tuner OTA tuner for the Hopper and it works just fine.
 
HipKat

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Here is the issue though, Dish officially does not allow installation of wired Joey's using ethernet/WIFI, and wireless Joey's can only be installed with the WIFI access point they provide.
Found out the hard way that Wireless Joeys will not work this way, even connected via Ethernet to an Eero mesh router on a job last week at a massive, high-dollar home where the Wireless Joey was just way to far form the WAP with no way to relocate the WAP.

On another though, replacing a Fiber Optic video system where Ethernet was run directly from the main receiver (Where the Hopper is), I used on of the Ethernet lines to connect to Joey 3 at the opposite end of the house, so it's connected directly to the Hopper 3 and that Joey is running just fine
 
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mnassour

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Well, my preference is to keep the video traffic off the home network. So, to sum up:

1. Accept nothing less than Hopper 3
2. Have tech connect wireless Joey with supplied wireless access point
3. Later, replace WAP with direct, off-network, Ethernet line between Hopper & Joey

Am I there, folks?
 
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ethanlerma

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Found out the hard way that Wireless Joeys will not work this way, even connected via Ethernet to an Eero mesh router on a job last week at a massive, high-dollar home where the Wireless Joey was just way to far form the WAP with no way to relocate the WAP.
That is interesting, my wireless Joey is connected to a gigabit switch that is then connected to a MoCA adapter (consumer MoCA network separate to the Dish one) that then communicates to another MoCA adapter on the main 10GBE switch in the house that has one of the Hopper3’s hooked up to it. This has been working fine for a few years now, maybe the latency for a wireless mesh network is to much? Or you need to setup/activate the WJ on its access point first then move it to Ethernet? Hard to tell.

Well, my preference is to keep the video traffic off the home network. So, to sum up:

1. Accept nothing less than Hopper 3
2. Have tech connect wireless Joey with supplied wireless access point
3. Later, replace WAP with direct, off-network, Ethernet line between Hopper & Joey

Am I there, folks?
Yep, sounds about right. I would add ask the tech if he would kindly provide a dual-tuner OTA adapter, or just use the one you have as long as it gets enough ventilation.
 
HipKat

HipKat

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That is interesting, my wireless Joey is connected to a gigabit switch that is then connected to a MoCA adapter (consumer MoCA network separate to the Dish one) that then communicates to another MoCA adapter on the main 10GBE switch in the house that has one of the Hopper3’s hooked up to it. This has been working fine for a few years now, maybe the latency for a wireless mesh network is to much? Or you need to setup/activate the WJ on its access point first then move it to Ethernet? Hard to tell.


Yep, sounds about right. I would add ask the tech if he would kindly provide a dual-tuner OTA adapter, or just use the one you have as long as it gets enough ventilation.
I thought for sure it would work. The Hopper is connected via Ethernet to one Eero and the Wireless, activated, is just too far from the WAP so we moved another Eero to its location and connected it. Had a guide and menus, but the picture would freeze immediately. Network showed connected via Ethernet with a 100% signal
 
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