charlie and his business have a target on them now for poor dishhonest business practices like selling the old low fee packages as contracts to new subs where their first bill will be the new higher pricing.
TiVo Sued: A Taste of Their Own Medicine
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charlie and his business have a target on them now for poor dishhonest business practices like selling the old low fee packages as contracts to new subs where their first bill will be the new higher pricing.
Aside from the fact I have no idea what you are talking about, I am not so happy to say that as a DirecTV sub, we just learned the fee increase, and on top of that, DirecTV will charge a monthly fee if we want to use the new MRV feature which will be strictly a software update, for many of us there will have no hardware changes involved.
What you know as soon as I commented about the buyout, I found this:
TMF: Re: Tivo modifies Change in Control Agreements / TiVo, Inc. (TIVO)
Personally I have doubts Charlie decided to buy TiVo, but if true, given how we know Charlie is, TiVo's investors can count on themselves being screwed
The TiVo heads will of course be covered. Seems to me if the above speculation is true, TiVo has already decided they will lose the appeal. Because if TiVo believes it will win, there is no possible chance TiVo would even consider selling to Charlie, not when there is another $300M+ from DISH awarded by the court, not to mention TiVo has the "poison pill" to prevent takeover, besides Charlie does not even have the money to buy TiVo at the current value. Therefore the only possible reason is TiVo realized they would lose, of course if that happens, Charlie will actually be able to afford it
Good find, jacmyoung...
I saw this and had a smile on my face too. It really is a tell all read between the lines piece.
For those who can't find the 8K form- here is the content absent the signatures and other form stuff-
Now the real guess is: Who made the offer?
If Charlie did, I suppose that will eat up the cache of profits and end any repeat of the huge dividend this year.
Other wild possibilities- MSFT, Google, Apple...
For investors, it may be a good time to buy some TIVO stock, especially now that the market is in a predicted pull back. Stocks usually run upward upon the announcement of a buy out. Personally, I put TIVO back on my daily watch list.
For fanboys of the TIVO equipment- look forward to a new party buy out because maybe TIVI will stop pouring money into lawyers and begin putting funds back into R&D and state of the art equipment for you.
To Tivo fan boy
It has nothing to do w/ see past Charlie's back side as you state. It has to do with the fact that over here we keep up with the TIVO very closely and have not. The statements you have made show your lack of what has been going on.
It has nothing to do w/ see past Charlie's back side as you state. It has to do with the fact that over here we keep up with the TIVO very closely and have not. The statements you have made show your lack of what has been going on.
bitch bitch bitch
This seems to be all you can do is bitch. He isn't doing what you are stating. They are selling what they have now. After Feb 1 the deals will be different that is just the way business is. You sell what you have when you have it. That's it period.
This seems to be all you can do is bitch. He isn't doing what you are stating. They are selling what they have now. After Feb 1 the deals will be different that is just the way business is. You sell what you have when you have it. That's it period.
I keep up just fine. Shortly DISH will be scrambling for a licensing deal with TiVo.
TiVo's market cap is over $1B right now, inflated based on the win at the district court of course. Can Charlie even afford to buy at this inflated value, especially consider he had just thrown $1B at the investors? Is it even in Charlie's vein to buy anything at an inflated price?
Which was why I doubted he approached TiVo for a buyout. I am ruling out MSFT and ATT also since they are currently in litigation with TiVo. You don't go in tell TiVo you are interested in buying TiVo at the same time fighting TiVo in court, TiVo will never be afraid of the fight.
Google is also unlikely because they just got what they needed from TiVo for cheap, they are not in the DVR business, the only benefit from TiVo is Goolge's ad business which they already got from TiVo recently.
Apple? Maybe. Is there any indication Apple wants to be in the DVR business? What good will that do to Apple? Their Apple TV has been their one and maybe the only big flop so far, it would be stupid to add another TV/DVR side of it from TiVo which has been proven a failure so far also.
My bet is no one approached TiVo, TiVo's heads are just preparing for the possibility of a court reversal, in that case they know TiVo will tank, and they will be covered by that "change of control provision". It is a smart move, always prepare yourself for the worst, just like what Charlie is doing.
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Change in control provision again is for friendly takeover. Promising golden parachutes in a bankruptcy does not mean anything. It more likely means that TiVo is at least considering selling the company.
Dish still has a couple billion in the bank, even after the $1 billion dividend last year.
Dish still has a couple billion in the bank, even after the $1 billion dividend last year.
Really? I thought when DISH raised that $1B it was at junk bond rate. If they have a large cash reserve, then I can see them buying TiVo after the court ruling, as Charlie said himself he saw a "relationship" with TiVo "after the path is clear." If so you can count on TiVo's investors being screwed, while the heads of TiVo are taken care of.
Besides when I said TiVo would tank in case of a court reversal, it was not the same as saying TiVo will be out of the business. TiVo will still have a value, just not an inflated one as it is now. TiVo's real value is about half of its current face value.
Yeah BUT the bills will be far different! and E KNOWS IT.
Kinda like buying anything and after the fact you find out the company had announced a large price raise, but failed to INFORM YOU, then tries collecting the larger sum.
Sure they can enforce the contract, but at what costs to reputation? future sales? media attention? bad word of mouth?
Do you know how closely investors watch this site? Years ago I prematurely
leaked Mike Dugans retirement.Found out the stock moved on the news, I got accused of attempted insider trading
E PR office got calls. Uncle mike is a nice guy didnt realize my news would cause so much troubleMike OFFICIALLY announced his retirement the following week
Now MAYBE this price scheme is the best thing since sliced bread for E?
BUT if it isnt E management and stock holders knew in advance it was a sure churn cause, which makes E stock go down.
That may be why E doesnt want to talk about new prices, hopefully they are reconsidering.
Heck one E rep reportedly told a retailer they know it will cost them subs.
there should be a grandfathering for owned equiptemernt.
In this economy some new subs may not care about their credit score, just stiff E, refuse to return leased equiptement, and complain loudly to the media, their friends and everyone they know, besides complining to the authorties.
the bad reputation as a consumer rip off can haunt E far past this quarter or year.
If you were charlie would it be worth the risk?
TIVO has never played well with others and must spend way more on lawyers than R&D or bug fixes
They really need new management and it sounds like the golden parachutes have been packed
If E or any other company bought TIVO wouldnt it be a improvement?
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Not really, TiVo only has 2.7M subs left, more than half are DirecTV TiVo subs who will move to DirecTV DVRs easily. The standalone base don't have any reason to expand only to continue to contract.
I don't see E* buying TiVo unless TiVo tanks to a very low price. Others may buy TiVo just to avoid litigation, in such event they will buy only if it is cheap, else it will be cheaper to fight in court, or if they lose it will still be cheaper to sign a license agreement. Just look at the TiVo v. E* fight, after 6 years TiVo only got $103M so far. Only when you can buy TiVo at a very low price would a buyout trump the court fight or a license agreement.
Just real tired of your broken record on every F'n thread. It's getting tiring and tedious. We will find out when it happens and the new people will get credits for a wile to off set some of the fees.
MRV will not be cost-free to support and it is more than likely that the support will need to be ongoing.
Some other grand results of our courts of law:
1. LAPD officers found innocent of beating speeding motorist, with one juror stating, "those poor officers; they weren't trained; they didn't know what to do."
2. O.J. Simpson: Jurors refused to accept the undisputed scientific fact that if DNA evidence is tainted or corrupt, test cannot produce a false negative. It results in a reading or none at all. One juror said in an interview, "I felt O.J. was guilty, but I didn't say anything, but, instead, waited for someone else on the jury to express the same thought I had, but since no one did, I just went along with everybody else and voted innocent." Even the reporter was incredulous.
Please, our courts are the worst except when compared with all others. They are horribly flawed and should never be thought of as oracles of an absolute certainty from an omnipotent being. No judge or lawyer would ever argue that. If one wants to have absolute faith in our courts, then all cases should be forwarded to the Vatican as only the Pope is infallible, certainly not our courts
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Yes, and Tom Rogers (CEO of TiVo--the creator of the TiVo getting out of hardware and exclusively into software model) was asked, point blank, in an interview why TiVo was suing TV service providers--AT&T and Verizon--and not the manufactures of the set-top boxes or providers of the software. Ol' Tom was actually flummoxed and actually stumbled to answer the question, then, finally, regained his composure and said that TiVo was pursuing litigation only with providers who have not signed deals, are not currently in talks with, or with provides who made it clear they have no intention of having talks nor signing deals with TiVo. He confirmed that AT&T and Verizon were two companies who made it clear they were not interested in TiVo technology. He left it at that.
Exactly, and Direct has been dragging its feet regarding the new Direc with TiVo box. One of the reasons most TV service providers (including Dish) don't want to do deals with TiVo is TiVo requires the service provider to pay for all advertising, marketing and other such expenses, and Direct TV is in no hurry to spend that money. Even Tom Rogers cited the "significant" financial commitment Direc TV made regarding the forthcoming new Direc with TiVo box as a way of demonstrating to the questioner that TiVo's costs are OK on that project.
In other words, if a TV service provider wants to use TiVo technology or design a co-branded box, that company must pay licensing fees, and pay for just about every other cost in the design, implementation, and marketing--specific, contractual marketing and advertising commitments with big numbers in the contract--for the privilege of crowing that they now have TiVo. The only way this works to a TV service providers advantage is if the DVR is so bad that Comcast had to take TiVo or suffer more churn.
Let's see. How many providers in the U.S. are offering TiVo today:
1. Comcast because their DVR really stank and customers were pissed.
2. Direc TV future TiVo co-branded box ONLY to avoid litigation from TiVo.
Ironically, TiVo is better than just about any other DVR product out there, except for Dish, so TiVo should be highly desired by TV service providers, but at TiVo's price? Forget it. Not to mention that some providers are contractually forbidden to use other than Scientific Atlanta or Motorola.
True that those DishPlayer 7000 series had many advanced features that Dish's subsequent home grown 501 did not. The problem wasn't with the design of the 7000 series features but Microsoft's lack of support to Dish when subscribers encountered bugs and other problems.
It was stated on several Charlie Chats and Tech Forums, back then, that Dish was extremely sorry the very long time it takes to fix problems with the 7000 series, but Dish does not own the software, Microsoft does and they won't allow Dish access to the code. All bug and problems are to forwarded to Microsoft, and they will fix it. Charlie himself was extremely exasperated at how long Microsoft took to fix problems (several months), and that Microsoft was barely even communicating with Dish and seemed to ignore Dish's concerns about the experience of their customers while Dish was getting phone calls and complaints about the 7000 series and Charlie just had to say, "there really isn't anything we can do about it." It seemed at one point that Microsoft was just ignoring Dish altogether for a while.
This is why Ergan decided NEVER again would he be dependent on another party for something as critical as software for his products. He was fuming mad in those days. That is why Dish just seemed to really stop supporting the 7000 series and create its own homegrown DVR product, and that is why the 501 is such a step backward from the 7000 series because Dish had to start from the beginning and, ironically, not infringe on patents.
However, it was a good move because now that Dish had control over the software, they really could get to fixes much faster than Microsoft ever did (I know that is hard to believe, but it's true), and they could respond to customer desires with new features that people wanted.
So, yeah, 7000 series kind of ahead of its time, but DishPlayer 7000 series really is considered a failure for Dish as it NEVER performed as they had wanted it to, and it was a huge source of problems, complaints, embarrassments, and costs for Dish, and because of its bugginess--rarely to be fixed by Microsoft and only when they were in the mood to fix it--it never penetrated as high as the Dish's 50X series, and Dish could afford to eventually give it away since they had complete control of manufacturing the product to a desired price point. My, my, once the 50x's came out, it seemed Dish acted as if the 7000 series never existed, meaning they made a concerted effort to cease as much support for it as they could because they wanted it GONE.
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What you know as soon as I commented about the buyout, I found this:
TMF: Re: Tivo modifies Change in Control Agreements / TiVo, Inc. (TIVO)
Personally I have doubts Charlie decided to buy TiVo, but if true, given how we know Charlie is, TiVo's investors can count on themselves being screwed
The TiVo heads will of course be covered. Seems to me if the above speculation is true, TiVo has already decided they will lose the appeal. Because if TiVo believes it will win, there is no possible chance TiVo would even consider selling to Charlie, not when there is another $300M+ from DISH awarded by the court, not to mention TiVo has the "poison pill" to prevent takeover, besides Charlie does not even have the money to buy TiVo at the current value. Therefore the only possible reason is TiVo realized they would lose, of course if that happens, Charlie will actually be able to afford it
So, the change could very well spell a buyer is interested. Let's face it, the only possible buyer at this point--as NO ONE wants to buy TiVo--is Echostar or Dish. In either case Charlie Ergan. Perhaps, Charlie is going to do what must be done, and the TiVo execs don't care how they get rich. I'm certain Tom Rogers will gladly abandon TiVo for a big bag of money and kiss Charlie on the lips, if necessary. I would rather see Dish buy TiVo than pay the licensing fees.
I always believed that the new fee structure/increase is being put into effect to either pay TiVo licensing--as Dish/Sats will probably lose--or, now the possibility, to help finance the purchase of TiVo. I guess we shall soon see.
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I'll drink to that. :upHere is to Tivo crashing and burning and spitting on their bloody carcass when its done...
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