Wah wah. DISH is mean!!!!

[Zero327]

Just reading a few laughs. Here's everyone's favorite subject.

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Submitted: 7/11/2007 1:13:35 PM
Modified: 7/11/2007 1:14:00 PM
Bill
Ottumwa, Iowa


I am being charged $10.00 a month now because I don't have my dish network receivers connected to a phone line!

When I called to set up installation, the person never mentioned that I had to have anything hooked to a phone line or I would be charged extra.
Then when the installer was getting ready to leave he said 'oh, yeah, you need to hook these to a phone line or there will be a penalty.' The first couple of months, there was no extra charge so I thought no big deal. Then last month the extra ten dollars appeared!

The problem is, with the old phone wiring in my house, having dish network receivers hooked up screws up my DSL internet service, even with the proper filters installed. So I either hook up the recievers full time and not have internet, or unhook them and pay an extra 10 bucks.

I emailed them and told them that I would like out of the contract because this phone line deal was not mentioned to me till after the install. They said I would need to pay $13.33 a month for the remaining 15 months.

Has anyone had any success getting out of a Dish network contract? If so, could you advise what you did that was successful?

Thanks

Bill
Ottumwa, Iowa
U.S.A.



Submitted: 7/10/2007 11:49:55 AM
Modified: 7/10/2007 11:50:00 AM
Luke
granbury, Texas


Dish Network has been charging me $5.00 monthly for not having one of my receivers (not in use) plugged into the phone line. This receiver is not being used yet I was told that if I attached it to a phone line I would have the fee waived as a way for me to save money regardless of use. I was also told that there is no reason Dish wanted it plugged in except to save me the $5.00 fee.

When questioned why was I then being charged $5.00 for nothing, I was told it was for the capability of having more access. I have the same capability regardless if it is plugged in or not.

So no answer except that it was policy and the individual on the 'customer service line' did call me an idiot. I was not told of this when I purchased my Dish yet the customer service rep did indeed say it was the installers fault for not telling me even though the installer is not the one charging me the $5.00.

Luke
granbury, Texas
U.S.A.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Do these guys read the user agreements before signing the paperwork?

Guess not.

 

[Zero327]

Day-in, day-out (day-o, daaaaaaay-o!!) I read these posted and mailed everywhere. I just don't get it. I read my contract when I signed up with Verizon Wireless forever ago. I knew exactly what would happen when I did A or B, and I knew if I went over my minutes they would rape my bill (did that to the tune of $300 once, never went over again.) I miss a payment by 10 minutes, and I see a 5.00 late fee on my next bill (which they've never "forgotten" to charge. But hey, I agreed to it when signing up!)

I understood when giving them my credit card it was free reign to do pretty much anything I was under obligation to pay for, whether or not I changed my mind at a later date (unless I chose to do so in writing, in which case the contract still reserved them the right to take what was owed to the point I withdrew my withdrawal authority.)

Ok, it's a customer service business, we get it. But since when did screaming "I'M THE CUSTOMER, I'M ALWAYS RIGHT!!!" ever prove to be a logical business argument? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Customers have gotten spoiled, and lazy these days. Especially when we're talking about higher end homes and satellite systems. (Which brings back another thread where the customer was on food stamps, but was upset when E* hit her with $300 in charges for early cancellation. If you're on stamps, what do you need E* for?!?!)

I keep telling myself Darwin was right and "the fittest" just haven't arrived yet... But then the gene pool slides another notch the next day. These aren't even cases of people just venting, they honestly believe they're in the right. (We won't go into the implications of that as a society, but they aren't alone unfortunately.) I mean come on, even Fred Flintstone read the giant chiseled slab he occasionally stamped or carved his name into.

 

[crappieguy]

Well # 1 it is NOT a penalty it is normal additional outlet charge that DTV does not even offer. It is a reward for the hooking up the phone line. So it is just normal procedure for that charge.
#2 the dish recevier ONLY calls out and in no way should effect your dsl no matter what kind of phone lines you have. DSL filters are not for your DSL line quality they are to filter the DSL signal out of your voice connections.
I am sorry you think you are being cheated but once again it is just regular charges. It would be cheaper to run a dedicated line with an external DSL filter (outside at the NID). To your dsl modem on top of getting better performance.
just my .02

 

[lumpkin666]

Do these guys read the user agreements before signing the paperwork?

Guess not.

If you've ever been on the "poor little end user" end of things, you'd realize why they don't read. The installer usually appears pressed for time, is somewhat intimidating and/or demanding that the user comply with his request to sign the contract so that he can move on to the next install. Would I feel comfortable asking the installer to wait while I read the entire contract, look up any terms that I don't understand, and consult with an attorney on any possible implications of the contract? No, so I rarely bother reading installation paperwork - besides the installation is done at that point, so what am I going to do... I'm gonna sign the paperwork. If the paperwork would have been provided beforehand, and proper encouragement to read and agree to it had been placed upon the user, this scenario would not occur so frequently. Our company requires the user to read the agreement, provide work authorizations and any documentation required from land owners (when it's a renter) before we will send an installer out to their premisises.

If pushed, that paperwork can mean absolutely nothing in most installation scenarios. The paperwork/contract is only a piece of paper. A contract consists of a "meeting of minds", and the paper exists only to document this meeting. If both parties did not fully understand and agree everything laid out in the paperwork, then those terms of the contract are not legally enforceable. Unless the installer insisted that the client read the contract fully, or the installer fully explained the contents of the contract, the end user could probably argue his way out of the contract. Of course, the cost of doing so would probably be higher (in terms of legal expense, risk, and time in court) than it would be worth.

 

[webbydude]

Well # 1 it is NOT a penalty it is normal additional outlet charge that DTV does not even offer. It is a reward for the hooking up the phone line. So it is just normal procedure for that charge.
#2 the dish recevier ONLY calls out and in no way should effect your dsl no matter what kind of phone lines you have. DSL filters are not for your DSL line quality they are to filter the DSL signal out of your voice connections.
I am sorry you think you are being cheated but once again it is just regular charges. It would be cheaper to run a dedicated line with an external DSL filter (outside at the NID). To your dsl modem on top of getting better performance.
just my .02

Therein lays the crux of the problem. Dish needs to emphasize the pricing scheme to it's retailers and sale partners. Most of them merely quote the price of what the it would be IF the phonelines were connected...and not if there were NOT connected. Add to that fact is that most of the time, said sales partners never even mention the phoneline issues.

 

[navychop]

"...Unless the installer insisted that the client read the contract fully, or the installer fully explained the contents of the contract, the end user could probably argue his way out of the contract...."

Not likely. Signature indicates acceptance. Burden would be upon the plantiff to show fraud or deception.

 

[Hall]

If you've ever been on the "poor little end user" end of things, you'd realize why they don't read. The installer usually appears pressed for time, is somewhat intimidating and/or demanding that the user comply with his request to sign the contract so that he can move on to the next install. Would I feel comfortable asking the installer to wait while I read the entire contract, look up any terms that I don't understand, and consult with an attorney on any possible implications of the contract?

That's a lame excuse, at least in regards to Dish's agreement. It's not very long (2 pages max, I think) and thankfully isn't written in legalese. The average person should be able to understand the wording....

Remember, the installer CAN'T leave 'til you sign off. He/she will wait, whether they like it or not.

 

[roachxp]

I can't wait till next month to use the network connection port on my VIP receivers, I have have been have issues with the phone line resently when hooked up to phoneline.

 

[Van]

Do these guys read the user agreements before signing the paperwork?

Guess not.

I had maybe 3 customers over a 6 year period that read the paper work front to back and one cancelled service because of it.

Well # 1 it is NOT a penalty it is normal additional outlet charge that DTV does not even offer. It is a reward for the hooking up the phone line. So it is just normal procedure for that charge.

I would hardly call it a reward, its more of a do this so we can more easily get you to order ppv or we will charge you more for being smart enough to not allow a temptation to get ahold of you.

#2 the dish recevier ONLY calls out and in no way should effect your dsl no matter what kind of phone lines you have. DSL filters are not for your DSL line quality they are to filter the DSL signal out of your voice connections. This is not necesarily true,

I have seen countless homes where the receiver being hooked to the phone line has caused either dsl to fail or the phone service to fail or both and even when the phone company was out there at the same time I was more than once it was found that the receiver(s) was causing the problem even with a fresh telco line run from the nid. The 522's are known for this issue as were a batch run of 322's.

Therein lays the crux of the problem. Dish needs to emphasize the pricing scheme to it's retailers and sale partners. Most of them merely quote the price of what the it would be IF the phonelines were connected...and not if there were NOT connected. Add to that fact is that most of the time, said sales partners never even mention the phoneline issues.

The retailers and sales partners know about the fee's, they just choose not to inform the the customer as this tends to be a make it or brake it issue for a customer to get service or not. On average I would have 2 customers a month, maybe more, maybe less that would cancel an install when they found out about the additional receiver fee or the phone line fee. Read the forums, its common knowledge that retailers and sales partners ( VMC anyone? ) are known for lying outright to a customer to get a sale.

 

[DWS44]

I can't wait till next month to use the network connection port on my VIP receivers, I have have been have issues with the phone line resently when hooked up to phoneline.

This might be a silly question, but do we know for sure that the network connection will REPACE a phone connection in Dish's eyes? As is, if you've been paying the access fee for not havign a phone line, will this fee go away when we hook up the network to VIP receivers?

 

[ndyclrk]

#2 the dish recevier ONLY calls out and in no way should effect your dsl no matter what kind of phone lines you have. DSL filters are not for your DSL line quality they are to filter the DSL signal out of your voice connections.

Absolute falsitude. Unfiltered devices such as fax machines, modems (guess what's in a satellite receiver), and telephones cause uncancelled echo. This uncancelled echo will cause DSL to either fail to synch or acheive a very slow and unreliable synch.

I just ordered a second ViP622 over the phone last month. Before they would charge my credit card and ship the receiver, the CSR had to read me a statement outlining, among other things, the phone line requirement. I had to agree to this before they would complete the transaction. Fortunately, I have Cat6 running to the locations of my receivers, so I can just patch it over to either phone or ethernet. If I didn't have a phone line available, I'd just get one of those Phonex EasyJacks.

Dish Network has been charging me $5.00 monthly for not having one of my receivers (not in use) plugged into the phone line. This receiver is not being used yet I was told that if I attached it to a phone line I would have the fee waived as a way for me to save money regardless of use. I was also told that there is no reason Dish wanted it plugged in except to save me the $5.00 fee.

This one really makes me laugh. How is E* supposed to know you're not using the STB? It's a receiver, not a tranceiver. The only communication they get from it is via the phone line.

 

[ndyclrk]

This might be a silly question, but do we know for sure that the network connection will REPACE a phone connection in Dish's eyes? As is, if you've been paying the access fee for not havign a phone line, will this fee go away when we hook up the network to VIP receivers?

Yes. It was stated on the retailer chat.

 

[GweeDo767]

Or you can just email ceo@echostar.com right now and tell them you have made the cell phone only jump and that their $5/receiver fee is dumb. I have no phone lines plugged in and don't get charged for it.

 

[Zero327]

Or you can just email ceo@echostar.com right now and tell them you have made the cell phone only jump and that their $5/receiver fee is dumb. I have no phone lines plugged in and don't get charged for it.

Considering for the last six months they can't seem to keep the fee working properly, meh. But never take lack of action with E* as a confirmation you're safe. *see above*

If pushed, that paperwork can mean absolutely nothing in most installation scenarios. The paperwork/contract is only a piece of paper. A contract consists of a "meeting of minds", and the paper exists only to document this meeting. If both parties did not fully understand and agree everything laid out in the paperwork, then those terms of the contract are not legally enforceable.

You go ahead and try that "meeting of the minds" Law & Order TV bulls*** with Chuck's legal team and let me know how it goes. Any part of you they can't sue, defer compensation, order repayment of court costs, or file for wrongful prosecution on I'll stick in a brown baggie and put into cold storage.

 

[Claude Greiner]

I had maybe 3 customers over a 6 year period that read the paper work front to back and one cancelled service because of it.

I would hardly call it a reward, its more of a do this so we can more easily get you to order ppv or we will charge you more for being smart enough to not allow a temptation to get ahold of you.
I have seen countless homes where the receiver being hooked to the phone line has caused either dsl to fail or the phone service to fail or both and even when the phone company was out there at the same time I was more than once it was found that the receiver(s) was causing the problem even with a fresh telco line run from the nid. The 522's are known for this issue as were a batch run of 322's.


The retailers and sales partners know about the fee's, they just choose not to inform the the customer as this tends to be a make it or brake it issue for a customer to get service or not. On average I would have 2 customers a month, maybe more, maybe less that would cancel an install when they found out about the additional receiver fee or the phone line fee. Read the forums, its common knowledge that retailers and sales partners ( VMC anyone? ) are known for lying outright to a customer to get a sale.

As a DISH Network Sales Partner and Retailer I agree 100% with what your saying, but its the DNSC installers who cause this problem by not doing their Job by connecting the phone lines properly in the first place.

Heres the issue, as a retailer who does my own installations the disclosure of the phone line penalty is not necessary since my installers will hard wire the phone line. Only question we ask the customer is if they have a home phone, if they have one we leave it at that because my guys are hard wiring a phone line if necessary. If the customer is cell phone only, then the $5 fees are disclosed.

As a sales partner its very fine line, we have to disclose the fact there is a charge if the receivers are not hooked to a phone line but alot of the other sales partners out there will not disclose the no phone line charge because they know that the installers refuse to hook them up and they do not want to loose a sale over a customer worrying about being charged to install a phone jack.

Every Dish Network guideline of business rule that I have ever seen says that the installation of the phone line is part of the standard installation. If im not mistaken it says "Phone lines will be installed in a manner to ensure connectivity over time" which basically means you don't run it accross the floor, and if necessary you install a jack.

As far as im concerned, the installers are not doing their Job when it comes to installing phone lines. Yes the sales partner needs to mention it at the time of sale, but at the same time its the duty of the installer to disclose it to the customer that there will be a penalty for not connecting up the phone lines before the installation even begins.

The installers have a choice on this issue, they can install the phone line as part of the basic installation like all the installation manuals and guidelines say its required, or they can be the bearer of bad news and explain to the customer why they are not hooking it up and the associated fees.

If the installer does not want to be the bad guy to the customer, then hook up the phone lines!

BTW, there is nothing in the business rules or installation guidelines that says its ok to charge the customer if the phone line is not within 25 feet of the receiver. Everything I have read says it needs to be connected and they will charge you back if its not connected.

This crap where the installer puts the phone bypass on the account and does not say anything to the customer is worse than the sales partner not disclosing it to the customer at the time of sale.

 

[havana]

Do these guys read the user agreements before signing the paperwork?

Guess not.

Yeah, easy for you to say...dyslexic some of us are, ever hear of ? ADHD smarty pants

 

[Claude Greiner]

I can understand some customers not being familer with the terms of the agreement like the phone line fee, but you know how many customers I talk to who try to cancel their service and when you tell them they are under a committment they don't believe you.

Im like gee, don't you remember being given a 3 page agreement to read over during the installation, the same agreement you signed when they finished your install?

I used to play a game with customers, I would give briefly show them the agreement and ask for them to read over it while doing the installation. Instead of handing it to them, I would set it down right infront of them on the coffee table and went off to do my installation.

I would never believe it, If I didn't see it but I would say 90% of the customers would never even bother to pick it up, and out of the 10% who do, 5% of them actually ask you questions about the agreement.

Then when your done, the customer quickly signs it because they don't want to admit they did not read it, yet I know they did not read it because it never moved from the place I set it down!

 

[mike123abc]

Most people figure it is just a standard agreement and no use reading it since they have no choice in the matter. Either sign or no TV, so why bother? This is probably what drives most people.

 

[lumpkin666]

Considering for the last six months they can't seem to keep the fee working properly, meh. But never take lack of action with E* as a confirmation you're safe. *see above*



You go ahead and try that "meeting of the minds" Law & Order TV bulls*** with Chuck's legal team and let me know how it goes. Any part of you they can't sue, defer compensation, order repayment of court costs, or file for wrongful prosecution on I'll stick in a brown baggie and put into cold storage.

I'm not a lawyer but I did spend 6 months on contract law in college and have successfully defended myself in court (bad idea, btw) in contract law scenarios, have received accolades from my contract law professor (a local magistrate judge) for class performance, and successfully defended myself against a major satellite tv company in Federal Court. I don't claim to know everything, but I'm pretty dang confident in what I previously stated.