why no ground?

B

breathe

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 17, 2004
92
0
so i had my dish moved to a new house yesterday, and upon their completion (after they left (of course)) i noticed there was no grounding cable/wire. isnt this required?? this is now the 2nd time ive had one installed and not gounded.



also just as a side question, i was wondering how their wiring worked. They came into the house with one cable, separated it into two for my 522, and then ran the output for tv2 back into the cable that brought the signal, there is a splitter installed at the location for room two, but i was under the assumption that with rg 6 it can only go one way, not both?
 
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OoTLink

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 25, 2005
731
0
While grounding isn't a guarantee against lightning strikes/surges, it's quite dangerous not to have it.

That guy went insane with diplexers and the DP separator (DP plus LNB) -- DP plus LNBs can use what they call a dp separator to let 2 tuners pick up off one coax run, but running a diplexer sounds like a lot of well... stuff..

Oh well, if it works, it works, but it needs to be grounded!
 
X

xcableguy

Active SatelliteGuys Member
Dec 17, 2004
21
0
OoTLink said:
While grounding isn't a guarantee against lightning strikes/surges, it's quite dangerous not to have it.

That guy went insane with diplexers and the DP separator (DP plus LNB) -- DP plus LNBs can use what they call a dp separator to let 2 tuners pick up off one coax run, but running a diplexer sounds like a lot of well... stuff..

Oh well, if it works, it works, but it needs to be grounded!

It's common practice to diplex TV 2 out back down the same line that the signal comes in on. How do you expect to get the TV 2 signal to TV 2? Run a direct wire from the 522 to TV 2? You could do that, but it's extra UNNECESSARY work. And it's not a good idea in a brand new house. If you were going to run a 2nd wire, you might as well not use a separator and just diplex back down one of the two wires.

BTW, it should be grounded.
 
Van

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
It must be grounded, sub contractors are notorious for not grounding a system, I fix theyr work all the time, call up to dish and complain about the install and tell them you want the problem fixed or else.
 
D

dturturro

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 24, 2004
156
0
Van said:
It must be grounded, sub contractors are notorious for not grounding a system, I fix theyr work all the time, call up to dish and complain about the install and tell them you want the problem fixed or else.

And then count the number of trouble calls you have that are related to the grounding :rolleyes:
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Feb 29, 2004
5,692
3
Florissant, CO
OoTLink is always out there with half-truths.

I do so many Separator/diplexer combinations, I often prefab the rigs while I'm sitting home watching TV.
 
O

OoTLink

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 25, 2005
731
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SimpleSimon said:
OoTLink is always out there with half-truths.

RUT ROH!

Dude, I certainly don't want to be one with a rep of doing that.. my apologies for being wrong and all ;)

I learn something new every day. Generally in my experience with plain jane cable and too many TVs, the more ding dongs you add to the cable, the worse the picture gets hehe. .. the only one that doesn't do that is the line amp, your friend XD (and those don't work with satellite setups of course)..

So whoops, I was wrong.. my bad! I love the idea that you can do everything off a couple wires, but it does sound janky, after all keeping it simple = less things to mess up hehe.

Oh well, if it works, and I was wrong, that's fine with me.. and I was wrong :)

Half-truths are well, let's just say I post here to learn.. h
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Feb 29, 2004
5,692
3
Florissant, CO
OK, guy - good attitude, and sorry if I came on too strong.

The TV2 modulators in E* boxes are very strong - if you don't have enough cable/"ding dongs" hooked up, you can overdrive the TV - that's why they supply an attenuator.

I've done whole house setups where I diplexed TV2 from two boxes back to the outside, combined them, and then split them multiple times to feed as many as 5 rooms. Signal quality was just fine. Note that I use good splitters and such - not the cheap junk that sometimes crops up.
 
D

dturturro

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 24, 2004
156
0
Dave nye said:
dturturro,

Are you saying that grounding causes trouble calls?

Not so much causes, but can become a cause: 2 more F-connectors and the ground block itself.

Not to mention if the installers mistakes a gas pipe for a cold water pipe :eek:
 
Van

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
SimpleSimon said:
OK, guy - good attitude, and sorry if I came on too strong.

The TV2 modulators in E* boxes are very strong - if you don't have enough cable/"ding dongs" hooked up, you can overdrive the TV - that's why they supply an attenuator.

I've done whole house setups where I diplexed TV2 from two boxes back to the outside, combined them, and then split them multiple times to feed as many as 5 rooms. Signal quality was just fine. Note that I use good splitters and such - not the cheap junk that sometimes crops up.

Ive never seen the attenuators work, straight coax run to tv2 or having to run through 2 - 4 splitters as well as dips. When Ive used them theyve turned the a/v signal to mush. Have you ever gotten them to work and in what context was it used?
 
R

redline65

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 29, 2004
114
0
Little Elm, TX
Is it adequate for one of the coax cables coming from the dish to be grounded? My installer only grounded one of the three cables coming into my house.
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

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Supporting Founder
Feb 29, 2004
5,692
3
Florissant, CO
Van said:
Ive never seen the attenuators work, straight coax run to tv2 or having to run through 2 - 4 splitters as well as dips. When Ive used them theyve turned the a/v signal to mush. Have you ever gotten them to work and in what context was it used?
The attenuators are ONLY used when connecting TV2 directly to one TV that can't handle the power of the TV2 modulator, or when trying to match strengths when combining TV2 with incoming OTA (although I've never done that one).
redline65 said:
Is it adequate for one of the coax cables coming from the dish to be grounded? My installer only grounded one of the three cables coming into my house.
NO. All cables need to be grounded.
 
Van

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
redline65 said:
Is it adequate for one of the coax cables coming from the dish to be grounded? My installer only grounded one of the three cables coming into my house.


Your installer was and is a hack, Doing what he did is the same as putting one lug nut on each wheel after getting new tires on your car.
 
R

R-U-Q-R-U

SatelliteGuys Family
Apr 8, 2005
78
0
Central Florida
breathe said:
so i had my dish moved to a new house yesterday, and upon their completion (after they left (of course)) i noticed there was no grounding cable/wire. isnt this required?? this is now the 2nd time ive had one installed and not gounded...

I had to call Dish for another professional installer to come back and ground my dish too. [still grounded but dark]
 
P

posdish

Member
Oct 15, 2005
14
0
Inside Ground?

All of the grounding threads seem to differ on exactly how to ground a system on the outside of a house -- but the one thing I have not yet seen
in the forums (and certainly not in the NEC) is anything concerning grounding
a system to the inside of a dwelling.

However, this is exactly what my DISH installer did -- the ONLY ground on my system is on a coax grounding block he installed and ran to the chasis of an AC and Gas heating unit in my attic. The coax runs for about 30 feet from the dish before it hits the block. Additionally, there is no ground from the mast of the dish itself. To top that, the power meter & the house's ground
are just around the corner from the dish -- and this is where I asked for the ground to be run in the first place.

Does this install's grounding sound anywhere near reasonable? I didn't think it did and the CSRs at DISH didn't either. So they scheduled the contracting company who originally installed to come back today for a service call. The company called last week to get filled in on the situation -- and to confirm my appointment. A different installer for the company showed up today and says that ground is perfectly fine -- he does it all the time in attics and never grounds the mast, either. He insisted that because the AC/Heat unit in the attic is grounded, that the DISH install is also grounded because it is connected to the chasis.

He said that his company could run the ground as I want it -- but he refused to do it (even though that is what this service call was for) because the original installer from the same company would lose his money from the original job. I said that was between the company and its employees - but this service call was to fix the ground and that's what I expected to be done. He then began to tell me that I didn't know what I was talking about and ended up berating me and yelling at me -- that's when I told him to get out of my house and I escorted him to my door.

Any advice on this situation would be appreciated.
 
T

TheDishNetworkInstaller

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 11, 2004
179
0
Middle of No Where
Van said:
It must be grounded, sub contractors are notorious for not grounding a system, I fix theyr work all the time, call up to dish and complain about the install and tell them you want the problem fixed or else.
I should post a picture of the grounding and cable runs the DNS tech did on this house and how he installed the SD with no tri-pod support before I moved in.

DNS techs can be just as bad at everything in my opinion. There are bad apples on both sides of the fence.

posdish said:
All of the grounding threads seem to differ on exactly how to ground a system on the outside of a house -- but the one thing I have not yet seen in the forums (and certainly not in the NEC) is anything concerning grounding a system to the inside of a dwelling.
The only inside Legal NEC grounding is a Cold water pipe that has a bonded power ground, the ground wire coming from the circuit breaker box to the ground rod outside or the main power conduit coming in from the power meter.

Otherwise a ground strap around the main power conduit, a ground clamp on the ground wire out of the Meter or water spouts as a last resort ground. I go inside and ground before I'll use a water spout.

For a while the company I was with was providing 8' x 5/8th copper ground rounds for those situations were it was impossible to mount the dish within the 20' max linear distance of the ground block connection. But techs abused them and used them even when a perfectly legal ground source was with in the 20'.

I have seen grounding to a ground lug inside the power box at the side of the AC unit and was told this is a legal ground also, but I'm not willing to reach a ground wire and screw driver into a box with 240 Volts in it.

Grounding to the chassis of any appliance is not a legal ground even for NEC code. And grounding to the Power Meter housing usually pisses off the power company and gets your ground wire removed.
 
SimpleSimon

SimpleSimon

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Feb 29, 2004
5,692
3
Florissant, CO
Inside grounding - when properly done, NOT to an appliance - is OK when within 2' of the cable entry point.

As for grounding to a lug inside a AC disconnect box, I'll have to say that it's sometimes OK - depends on how the box was installed (it might be wrong, too).

As for that box being "hot" - that's what the breaker at the main panel is for. ;)
 

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