Why would a team drop in the rankings

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John W

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Original poster
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
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After winning and a bye team jumps them? Yeah I know, we got slammed by the #2 team in the beginning of the year but it's our only loss. We keep winning and winning. Have close games just like any other team (UCLA) but I was in the stands for that game and none of the ND fans seemed worried but all the UCLA fans were saying that it was just a matter of time before they got beat. We all knew Brady Quinn would bring it back.

In the Navy game we doubled the spread, shut out one of the top rushing offenses in the second half. Brady had a perfect day with 70% completions and nearly 300 yds and 2 TD passes.

So why do we drop in the polls?

I know you either love or hate ND. Obviously I am very biased but even stepping away from that and looking at what happened, I don't get it. I certainly don't think we are worthy of the BCS NC game but we shouldnt be dropping.
 
Actually....Stewart Mandel/CNNSI has a great article about this. In essence, its not that they are dropping them cause of one game, its correcting a pre-season ranking that was way too high.

With ND being a pre-season #2, its evident that they were clearly overranked. The UM loss brought them down, but not down enought. #10/#11 is a good ranking for ND.

Putting all bias aside, can you really look at the teams ranked ahead of ND and say that ND shouldn't be below them?

If ND was say pre-season #10, the UM loss would have dropped them down to 16-20. where they would have continued their upward climb to where they are now.

BTW...you won't get much credit for whipping Navy, cause they are Navy! They are not going to be rewarded for doing something that they were expected to do.


The ND situation is exactly why people have complained about pre-season polls.

Now look at the Harris poll (which didn't come out until Week 5)

In the last 6 harris polls, ND was 12-12-9-10-10-10. They started at 12 and since moved up to 10. The only reason they moved up from 12 to 9 in week 7 was that 3 teams ranked above them lossed (Oregon, LSU, Auburn). THe next week, they dropped one spot to 10, not because they did bad, but because Auburn (who was ranked 10 the week before) just beat an undefeated Florida team and rightfully jumped ND.
 
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Realistically I think we should be ranked between 10 - 8. I do agree that Florida is a better team than us. I think that we can and probably will beat USC. I know that we are getting slammed for our schedule right now but ours was front loaded, right now we are playing teams the caliber of what most of the rest of the country was playing in the first two weeks of the season. I believe we do have the 11th toughest schedule in the country regardless of the fact that we play the service acadamies.

I am totally biased on it and just get annoyed when we move backwards after winning a game the way we should.
 
Another point you brought up....ND is entering their easy portion of their schedule (minus USC). So, you can expect that SOS to drop and computer rankings to be effected. On the other hand, most teams are entering the meat of their schedule and therefore more likely to improve SOS/cpu rankings.

What ND needs to do to prevent additional drops is to beat up on air force, UNC, etc. They need to impress the human polls, worth 2/3 of the BCS rankings. Sadly, USC's loss (and any additional losses) will put a damper on ND's improvement in the rankings, so they needs as many solid W's as possible. No more last second comebacks :)

What ND is really shooting for is that 14 million dollar payday. If they keep wining, they will get a bid whether they are top 8 or not!

If you break it down, B10 will get two bids, B12, BE, ACC, SEC, Pac10 champ will get one. Thats 7. Boise St (if they run the table) and another SEC team will get one. Thats 9 with 1 to spare. Remember, only two teams are allowed per conference, so Ark, FL, TENN, LSU, and Auburn are fighting for two and only two bids.

ND and BE 2nd place will fight for the last bid. And I highly doubt that BE 2nd place team will be ranked in the top 4 of the BCS, cause that is the ONLY way they will get a bid over ND! Pac 10 really can't get an at large over ND, cause that would mean that USC would have to beat them, which would cancel out the whole BCS arguement for ND.

After conf champs and top 4. its a popularity contest. And its not rankings....its viewers and travelers. There are very few teams (if any) that is more marketable than ND.

And when you think about it, outside the Nat championship, rankings don't mean a thing once you get an invite to a BCS bowl :)
 
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Well John,
I thought I'd chime in on this as well, but the others have made valid points .... and have made the same points I would have.

As for you either love or hate ND, not true, I do neither.
as for no one playing anyone in the beginning of thier schedule , Ohio State didn't play anyone either, unless you consider the number 2 team at the time TEXAS.

Ohio State may slip a little from now till "The Game" Nov 18th, due to SOS, but provided they don't lose, they will still be ranked #1.

ND is currently #9 in the BCS, I think they COULD beat Auburn and Louisville and maybe USC, so eventually they could be in at #7.

One reason I would have to not like ND is the Stupid agreement that have that if they win 9 games they automatically get a BCS bowl, thats BS.
I would be highly pissed if MY team had more wins than ND and got passed for a BCS bowl due to some politicing like this.

To answer the original Question...
NO I do not think you should drop spots with teams not playing, however it happens to Ohio State every year, except this one , so far ....

Jimbo
 
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Jimbos,

Sorry, I didn't mean that every team was playing cream puffs although that is how I stated it. I am very impressed with your Buckeyes, I think you will get the MNC and probably the Heisman also. Being born in Columbus and growing up in Ohio, Grandparents went to tOSU, I am also a Buckeye fan but obviously not to the extent that I am an Irish fan as you can see from my biased posts. Tressel is "The class act" of coaching. I love Charlie Weis, spoken to him quite a bit, but he is not politically correct and doesn't show the class that Tressel does.

Regarding other posts....

ND is guaranteed a spot in the BCS with a top 8 ranking and if they are ranked 8-12 then they can still be considered for a BCS spot (guess that would be an "at large" spot.

Starting this year, if ND goes to any BCS game they get a $4.5 million payout rather than the $14 million it had in the past. Kinda sucks that the AD made that deal now but on the bright side of things ND gets paid approx $1 million for years that it does not make a BCS game. Basically it looks like they are figuring on a break even at making the BCS once a decade. I have the feeling that we will make it a little more often than that though (hoping at least). Not like ND needs the money. Last I looked they had the 13th largest endowment out of all colleges with Harvard being #1
 
The BCS ratings are all voodoo to me. Can anyone give me a breakdown on how they are determined?


The BCS is very complicated and seems to always be changing. Recently they took out a lot of the weighting on SOS (strength of schedule) which I am opposed to. I think that if you win the MNC you should have played someone to earn it. Case in point.... West Virginia. They have a very easy schedule this year with their toughest games being Louisville, Pitt and Rutgers...not what you would think of as traditional powerhouses. Another one is Boise St. who has only played Oregon State (who beat USC). I am sure that both are very good teams but they aren't getting beat up every week by tough defenses. Anyway that's JMHO ;)

I can't explain the whole BCS process and it is too long to paste here so link to this article.

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/bcs_explained.html
 
If the Irish beat USC like they should, I think OSU and Michigan will be playing twice. Once for the Big 10 (well, 11 really) and once for the BCS title. I don't think the loser will drop much in the polls or the BCS computers.
 
If the Irish beat USC like they should, I think OSU and Michigan will be playing twice. Once for the Big 10 (well, 11 really) and once for the BCS title. I don't think the loser will drop much in the polls or the BCS computers.


I PRAY that this doesn't happen!!! Even if OSU and MICH are still looked upon as the best two teams in the country, the loser should be out, period! Repeats suck....especially with this senerio as they would play back to back! In that case, why the hell are we playing on Nov 18th, when the only game that would matter would be Jan 8th? Then to top it all off, what happens if they split? The winner of the glendale game is #1 just because its the NTG? The loser of the Nov 18th game (whether OSU or Mich) should be out period! They had their chance and would be unfair to the winner to have to prove it twice while the loser gets a do-over.
 
I PRAY that this doesn't happen!!! Even if OSU and MICH are still looked upon as the best two teams in the country, the loser should be out, period! Repeats suck....especially with this senerio as they would play back to back! In that case, why the hell are we playing on Nov 18th, when the only game that would matter would be Jan 8th? Then to top it all off, what happens if they split? The winner of the glendale game is #1 just because its the NTG? The loser of the Nov 18th game (whether OSU or Mich) should be out period! They had their chance and would be unfair to the winner to have to prove it twice while the loser gets a do-over.

If thats the case and Ohio State wins, they should play someone that is undefeated,
Louisville/ W. Virginia winner or Boise State or Rutgers...

I don't agree with that btw.
I think Flordia / OSU would be the best game.
Neither WVU or Louisville has a defense that can stop anyone., the two teams had over 500 yards offense at halftime.

Jimbo
 
I am wondering if BOTH these teams playing tonight (Louisville and West Virginia) will not drop in the polls, neither team looks like they belong in the top 10.

Niether has a defense and WVU cannot hang on to the ball at all., defiatly not top 5 teams, any of the top 5 would have crushed these teams with the way they are playing. Both teams are very fast, but come on, hold on to the ball.

Jimbo
 
I am wondering if BOTH these teams playing tonight (Louisville and West Virginia) will not drop in the polls, neither team looks like they belong in the top 10.

Niether has a defense and WVU cannot hang on to the ball at all., defiatly not top 5 teams, any of the top 5 would have crushed these teams with the way they are playing. Both teams are very fast, but come on, hold on to the ball.

Jimbo


I agree with you Jimbo. This is exactly what I mean when I say that SOS should be more of a factor in the polls. That will force these teams to play some traditionaly tough teams and weed out most of the pretenders. You can never tell how good your opposition will be years ahead of time when they make the schedules. A good example is my favorite team ND. Last year it turned out that our traditional very good teams were not very good last year. But my point is that these teams need to schedule tougher teams if they want to be able to make a run at the MNC.

I agree with not wanting to see an OSU vs UM in the title game. They will have already played and proven the winner is the better team. If they play again in the title game and the loser of the first game wins then I think they should be Co- national champs at best.

I think OSU will win out this year and it looks like Florida may finish off the rest of the schedule in their favor. If that is the case then agree with who said that should be the bcs nc game. (don't think my irish could beat either team right now)
 
I agree with not wanting to see an OSU vs UM in the title game. They will have already played and proven the winner is the better team. If they play again in the title game and the loser of the first game wins then I think they should be Co- national champs at best.
I don't get all the people saying that OSU and Michigan should not be allowed to play again, the Flordia teams do it, (not for the NC game though) but there are times where we see them play one another 2-3 times in a year.

IF the OSU / Mich game is a close game either way, I think it should at least be considered. If you notice both teams are ahead of the rest in the BCS poll by 2 whole points, not just percentage points.
Also IF this should happen and they play for the championship, what better reason for the "And 1 game"

Didn't USC lose a close game at the end on thier year not ling ago and still go ? or was it Oklahoma ?

IF the two were to play in the NC game it would take place some 50 days later, while all the other teams get to keep playing and keep thier timing down, this is a BIG dis advantage to the Big Ten team, always has been.

I think ALL games should be done with by the last weekend in November, then we can start theplayoffs the 1st week in December, Do away with the Conference Championship games altogether.

Jimbo
 
Jimbo,

The team you were thinking about was Oklahoma in 2003. They got beat.....sorry I mean DESTROYED....by KSU in the B12 title game 35-7 and still was ranked #1 in the BCS. It was because of this that we no longer have SOS as a seperate category in the BCS formula.

I still don't like the repeat games. You mentioned the FL teams. There was a "title game" rematch between FL and FSU in 96. That was crap! FSU beats FL to end their season, only to have to beat them again for the title. THey lose (bad) in the sugar and now "Darth Visor" gets his only title. BTW, it was the fact that FL was able to beat FSU, the only team they lost to, that was the main reason that they were #1 over OSU that year.

Repeats for non-title game suck, but they are just for $ and bragging rights.
 
Michigan beats OSU, Rutgers beats Louisville - I'm still seeing that rematch in January. The other possibility is OSU beats Michigan, then has a rematch with Texas. Not that I'm rooting for a rematch, but there's a good possibility. The two best teams should play for the championship - that's what the BCS was designed for.
 
Michigan beats OSU, Rutgers beats Louisville - I'm still seeing that rematch in January. The other possibility is OSU beats Michigan, then has a rematch with Texas. Not that I'm rooting for a rematch, but there's a good possibility. The two best teams should play for the championship - that's what the BCS was designed for.

I don't think the Texas rematch will happen, many are looking at the first game and saying that Texas got stomped, at home... would have been not as bad if they lost on the road I guess.

I personally would like to see Flordia or Michigan, provided the OSU / Mich. game is a close one either way.
Some are saying that if OSU loses to Michigan (regardless of score) they should not be able to go back for the championship, because they got beat at home.
I disagree, all the 1 loss teams should be in the same boat with equal oppertunity.

Jimbo
 

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