Can I get Distant Network HD or Not?

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Wiggin78

SatelliteGuys Family
Original poster
Jan 4, 2005
82
0
Redding, CA
Ok, I have been talking with multiple D* CSR's and have not been able to get a clear answer about this. I live in Redding, CA where D* and E* offer Local channels. I currently have E* and obtained a waiver from our CBS affiliate to receive E*'s New York CBSHD feed. Becuase our local channels are not upgrading to HD for at least 2 years they have no problem handing out these waivers. Now I want to switch to D* because I prefer their service and they have ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX DNS HD feeds. But when I was about to order D* I was told that they can't gaurantee that I will receive them. After being transfered to there DNS department they told me I wouldn't be able to get them even with a waiver, sighting new DNS laws. As I understand it these laws apply to both D* and E* so why is it that my waivers are accepted at E* only? I want to switch but not if I can't get the same deal I am getting from E* as far as DNS is concerned. Are the people at D* not understanding the situation or is E* the only company that can accept waivers from my local affiliates at this time?
 
E* likely isn't playing by the rules. Right now DirecTV cannot add DNS if they offer locals in your area due to recent legislation. The HD DNS eligibility is still being hammered out I think, but right now is still tied to the normal DNS process.
 
That really sucks as far as I'm concerned. i guess I have to give props to E* for sticking their necks out for their customers. If this proves to be the case I will have to stick with E* until D* gets their act together. :mad:
 
That really sucks as far as I'm concerned. i guess I have to give props to E* for sticking their necks out for their customers. If this proves to be the case I will have to stick with E* until D* gets their act together.
DirecTV has their act together. Maybe, instead of criticizing, understanding the situation will help...

I'll assume you've had your waiver for CBS HD prior to three months ago. That was when the new law came to pass.

Once that law, the SHVERA, was signed by President Bush on 9 December, 2004, neither DirecTV nor Dish Network could offer you waivers. Since both providers offer Chico/Redding, they are no longer submitting waivers for viewers in that market.

Anyone that had waivers prior to 9 December, 2004, were OK to keep what they had. But once you change providers, you must requalify. And DirecTV cannot offer you distant HD networks because they have your local channels. And if Dish Network ever gets ABC, NBC, and Fox up, they cannot apply for waivers for you, since they already have the Chico-Redding locals available.

There is a provision in the law to do HD waivers. This is wrapped up at the FCC, and will be for about a year and a half.
 
Actually, I've only been an E* customer for a month and a half and I received my waiver less than 3 weeks ago with no problems. E* said I had to contact my local CBS station and have them send a waiver. I called on a Friday and had CBSHD by Monday. They were more than happy to accomidate my request until they have the money to upgrade to HD. The only catch is that I have to keep paying for the regular SD locals through E*. This is why I am so frustrated with D*. Why can E* do this and not D*? :(
 
Technically, Dish Network is supposed to submit waivers for their customers. It is spelled out in the law. Now, if enough people do work around by contacting the local station to get the waiver, it is possible that DirecTV would implement this, as well.

You would need to call the waiver department at DirecTV to see if they will honor your CBS HD waiver. I do not have the phone number. But, if you can get DirecTV to honor your waiver for CBS, you may be able to get waivers from the other stations for HD as well. One could only hope!
 
Wiggin78 said:
Actually, I've only been an E* customer for a month and a half and I received my waiver less than 3 weeks ago with no problems. E* said I had to contact my local CBS station and have them send a waiver. I called on a Friday and had CBSHD by Monday. They were more than happy to accomidate my request until they have the money to upgrade to HD. The only catch is that I have to keep paying for the regular SD locals through E*. This is why I am so frustrated with D*. Why can E* do this and not D*? :(


Who did you call at the station to get the waiver? I live in Chico and would love to try and get CBS and NBC HD waivers. I think it would be worth a try. I doubt we will see any of the Chico stations broadcasting HD any time soon. Those two are the only ones I would need. I have been able to pick up ABC and PBS in HD from the Redding stations OTA.

Chris
 
I dont know if this helps, but I spoke to a DNS rep at D* about 2 weeks ago and she told me they cannot apply for an NBC waiver for me in DC since they offer the local, but I can request one from the station and send it to D* at an address she gave me...if I could only find that...
 
Elstevo said:
E* likely isn't playing by the rules. Right now DirecTV cannot add DNS if they offer locals in your area due to recent legislation. The HD DNS eligibility is still being hammered out I think, but right now is still tied to the normal DNS process.

Actually it's "D" that's not playing by the rules and "E" just plain isn't playing.

If you check out some of the threads on AVS, especially the ones for Walnut Creek, there are some that have actually forced / convinced "D" to accept waivers and provide the HD DNS.

The DBS company offering LILs has absolutly NOTHING to do with whether you qualify for the HD DNS or not. Analog LiLs, maybe but Not the HD DNS.

The FCC has actually scolded "D" for blaming not providing HD DNS on the new legislation. Although we're badly in need of written clarification and rules from the FCC on the new legislation, they have responded to some individules and those responses have been posted:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5159451#post5159451
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5223290#post5223290

Also check out these threads for how some are getting "D" to provide HD DNS:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=520581
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=515808
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=503242
 
waltinvt\ said:
The DBS company offering LILs has absolutly NOTHING to do with whether you qualify for the HD DNS or not. Analog LiLs, maybe but Not the HD DNS.
From AVS Forums said:
For DTV (the umbrella term for various standards of enhanced-and high-definition TV) signals, Congress's decision is that the only satellite
subscribers who can get distant DTV are those who have a waiver from the local
station for distant signals or those who are predicted to be "unserved."
From AVS Forums said:
Any consumer formerly denied a waiver request may consider contacting the satellite company again, with a new request; waiver requests must be submitted through the satellite company to the local network TV station; please see: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva/shviafac.html
And then the satellite providers are not accepting waivers because a subscriber is now considered "served" if their local channels are available by satellite...

See?

Until the FCC finishes their directive from the SHVERA to make qualification maps for local digital television stations, the HD process can be considered the same as the analog process. Waivers can still be processed, but what does it matter? You can only either get local channels or distant channels, but not both. The digital qualification does not exist at this time, because the SHVERA is convoluted enough to make DirecTV and Dish Network leery of even applying for waivers.

And even the FCC helps my cause, because supposedly only the satellite company can request waivers for their subscribers.

See how messy this is?
 
You say Dish is leery but why are they accepting waivers? I have had CBSHD for the past 3 weeks. DirecTv could offer the same far sighted approach that Dish is currently but they won't. I plan on writing to D* and causing as much of a fuss as I can. I urge everyone else in this situation to do the same. If enough of us complain maybe D* will have to look at the problem with their handling of HD DNS. :shocked
 
I just got off the phone with the station assistant for my local CBS/NBC stations. She granted me an HD waiver without any fuss and faxed it to me within 5 mnutes. She did say that she has problems with DirecTV not wanting to accept the waivers. She has no problems with Dish. I'll let you know how I make out with D*. She also told me it will likely be years before they broadcast in HD.

Chris
 
Wiggin78,

Have you attempted to get a waiver from Fox30?

I called DirecTV so I could send in the waivers. The first representative said I was already eligible to receive all the HD networks without waivers but when she tried to activate them, it would not work. She then had to transfer me to another department. They told me I was not eligible without waivers and had me fax them in. I was told it could take 3 business days for the service to start. It seems that they have a block in the computer system where only certain people can handle DNS requests. I wish the first one had the ability. Oh well. We'll see if my CBS and NBC HD start up in the next few days.

Chris
 
Buckeye

I emailed them them other day and they told me I was eligible. However, when i called them they said that I was not eligible because my local affiliates had to be owned and operated by the network. Here in Tampa, only Fox is owned and operated by Fox, therefore, I only get the NY Fox feed. One tells you one thing, another one tells you something different.
 
cmassa,

Let me know if they approve the waivers or not. I am not switching to D* unless
they approve the waivers. If you get them approved there is a good chance I can too. As far as Fox I faxed a request to them yesterday but have not heard back. The first guy I talked to said no problem,they just needed me to mail or fax my request. Mail to 300 Main St. Chico, CA 95928 Attn: Paula Murphy. Fax to same contact at 893-1266. let me know if you get your DNS. Good Luck! :D
 
Greg Bimson said:
And then the satellite providers are not accepting waivers because a subscriber is now considered "served" if their local channels are available by satellite...
See?

That was one of my points. From an FCC response:

"Some consumers have informed us satellite TV providers won't process waivers, and are saying to the effect that, "' Due to the SHVERA, the FCC won't let us'". This is not correct and the FCC has very recently asked satellite TV to STOP alleging that their business practices are based on FCC rules. Any consumer formerly denied a waiver request may consider contacting the satellite company again, with a new request; waiver requests MUST be submitted through the satellite company to the local network TV station....,snip."

The point is and the FCC has confirmed, that the old SHVIA STILL EXISTS and the rules laid out in still apply. One of the few things SHVERA changed is that for the purpose of analog DNS, having LILs offered by your sat company means you're "served" but only for the purpose of qualifing for ANALOG DNS - not HD DNS.

And yes, the FCC is supposed to issue clarifications on what is a "digital white area" but in the interm, the old SHVIA rules for getting analog DNS apply to determing if you're "served" for purpose of digital (HD) DNS.


Greg Bimson said:
Until the FCC finishes their directive from the SHVERA to make qualification maps for local digital television stations, the HD process can be considered the same as the analog process. Waivers can still be processed, but what does it matter? You can only either get local channels or distant channels, but not both. The digital qualification does not exist at this time, because the SHVERA is convoluted enough to make DirecTV and Dish Network leery of even applying for waivers.

And even the FCC helps my cause, because supposedly only the satellite company can request waivers for their subscribers.

See how messy this is?


You're right - it's messy and the sat companies ARE NOT on our side here but the law is the law. In simple terms:

1. For all intents and purposes, analog DNS is gone for any new "D" & "E" subscribers except in the few areas left that they don't carry LiLs for. I suppose technically since "V" doesn't offer LiLs, they could offer the analog DNS to anyone considered "unserved".

Anyway, some existing "D" & "E" customers that had analog DNS can keep them if they give up LiLs and even fewer can have both under certain circumstances.

2. Digital (HD) DNS however is a whole different ballgame. Since digital was not addressed in the old SHVIA (which was extended and still exists), some language was added by virtue of the recent SHVERA that addresses it.

The important thing is that it acknowledges the various forms of digital as different and seperate from analog and therefor needing different rules.

They say that more rules / clarifications will be coming regarding who is considered "served" for the purpose of digital DNS but they also say that until then the same model that the old SHVIA used for "grade B" analog will apply to digital.

That means waivers Must be submitted by the sat companies.
If waivers are denied, then signal tests CAN BE DEMANDED.
This is what the affiliates and even the sat companies really don't want you to know. However the law is the law and these options are available.

Walt
 
Ok...what if you do not have a main city (with their own stations) for at least 150 miles around you, but the satellite companies "force" another city/state of locals on you. You live over 150 miles from this new city they say you qualify for.

Can you get HD distant nets since you don't live in that DMA 150 miles away?
 
WaltinVT;

So does that mean you've been sucessful getting the Burlington folks to allow waivers for HD distants? I'm not holding my breath here....thanks.
 
shadow_keeper said:
Ok...what if you do not have a main city (with their own stations) for at least 150 miles around you, but the satellite companies "force" another city/state of locals on you. You live over 150 miles from this new city they say you qualify for.

Can you get HD distant nets since you don't live in that DMA 150 miles away?

Sat companies "force" what you're talking about as much as they "force" sports blackouts.

They dont.

The market you are in is determined by Nielsen Media Research.
 
This morning on the DirecTV website I noticed that Houston had been added to the list of cities that can receive CBS & NBC DNS HDTV. ( Used to be FOX & ABC only )

Since I live 150 miles from Houston and can't get Houston HDTV by antenna, I called Hi-Def eligibility to see what the deal was. The helpful CSR explained he couldn't give me CBS & NBC DNS yet, he explained that they are putting a new computer waiver system in place which will allow any customer to apply for a HDTV DNS waiver. He said it should be complete in a few weeks.

So I guess anyone will be able to call in and apply for waivers. He explained the system will go by physical address, not zip code. They will not go by the "owned & operated" station list anymore.
 
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