Ciel 2 Tracking

[HDRoberts]

This one should take less time, because - unlike 110 - 129 currently has frequencies not in use, and Ciel-2 can start broadcasting on those frequencies immediately.

I'm not so sure about that. With E8-E11, everything was a straight transition. What was on TP17 on E8 went to TP17 on E11.

With Ciel-2, everything CONUS on TPs 1-16 need to go to a CONUS TP on Ciel-2 (TPs 17-32). Meanwhile, all LiL on TPs 17-32 will need to go the appropriate spots on TPs 1-16.

I have no doubt the failed TPs on E5 will help, but there is a lot more shuffling to do with E5-Ciel 2 that E8-E11.

I wonder if the spots will filled with LiL first, or they will handle all CONUS first. Next Wed., should make for some interesting uplink reports as the sufilling will (hopefully) commence.

 

[Awohar]

at current speed should be 113 hours 41 min from when start to move from 138 to get to 129

at 22092 orbit + 1/2 earth diameter, times 2, that give diameter of orbit at 52,112.04
circumfurence of orbit is 163714.80202757745 so one degree is 454.763339 miles

times 9 degrees = 4092.87005 total distance to travel,

speed 0.01 mile per second times 60 sec = 0.6 mile/minute x 60 min = 36 mph,

4092.87005 / 36mph = 113.69 hours to move.

so should be 4 days 17 hours 41 minutes from first start to move. anyone want to set a timer

looks like wednesday night be big news


TLD says 1/24/09 at 2:25 UTC, that's 7:25PM 1/23/09 in Colorado, so add 4 days thats 1/27/09 plus 17 hours 41 min would be 1:06pm on 1/28/09 colorado time, that's plenty of time for big announcement wednessday nigth

 

[choskyigragspa]

at current speed should be 113 hours 41 min from when start to move from 138 to get to 129

at 22092 orbit + 1/2 earth diameter, times 2, that give diameter of orbit at 52,112.04
circumfurence of orbit is 163714.80202757745 so one degree is 454.763339 miles

times 9 degrees = 4092.87005 total distance to travel,

speed 0.01 mile per second times 60 sec = 0.6 mile/minute x 60 min = 36 mph,

4092.87005 / 36mph = 113.69 hours to move.

so should be 4 days 17 hours 41 minutes from first start to move. anyone want to set a timer

looks like wednesday night be big news


TLD says 1/24/09 at 2:25 UTC, that's 7:25PM 1/23/09 in Colorado, so add 4 days thats 1/27/09 plus 17 hours 41 min would be 1:06pm on 1/28/09 colorado time, that's plenty of time for big announcement wednessday nigth

Oooh...I found a way that we can get the sat there faster. We can just use the metric system. According to n2yo.com it's traveling at .02 km/sec, which is equivalent to .0125 miles/sec (faster than the .01 miles/sec you're using). So it would arrive earlier than your calculations predict.

(Note: my point here is that the numbers you've based your calculations on aren't going to be very helpful, as they are clearly rounding to two decimal places...which will yield rather imprecise results.)

 

[Fitzie]

at current speed should be 113 hours 41 min from when start to move from 138 to get to 129

at 22092 orbit + 1/2 earth diameter, times 2, that give diameter of orbit at 52,112.04
circumfurence of orbit is 163714.80202757745 so one degree is 454.763339 miles

times 9 degrees = 4092.87005 total distance to travel,

speed 0.01 mile per second times 60 sec = 0.6 mile/minute x 60 min = 36 mph,

4092.87005 / 36mph = 113.69 hours to move.

so should be 4 days 17 hours 41 minutes from first start to move. anyone want to set a timer

looks like wednesday night be big news


TLD says 1/24/09 at 2:25 UTC, that's 7:25PM 1/23/09 in Colorado, so add 4 days thats 1/27/09 plus 17 hours 41 min would be 1:06pm on 1/28/09 colorado time, that's plenty of time for big announcement wednessday nigth

I admire your math, but would like to point out something.

n2yo has the same TLE and estimates Ciel 2 has moved 4 degrees approximately from the time it started until now. That indicates the movement started earlier than you believe, or that it's moving slightly faster.

My feeling is that it's moving faster, because n2yo shows it moving at 0.02km/s or 0.01m/s. That's great for eyeballing purposes, but as we all know, 0.02km/s is not actually equal to 0.01m/s--its about 24% faster in fact.
Another way of saying it is to translate it into miles: since one kilometer is .6214 of a mile, 2 kilometers is equal to 1.2428 miles.

That being the case (by my math) the actual speed is not 36 miles per hour but 36X1.2428 or 44.74 miles per hour.

5 additional degrees to go times 454.76 = 2273.8. Divide that by 44.74 and the resultant number of hours remaining on the journey should be 50.82 hours. Adding a round 51 hours to the current time would mean the sat. should reach its destination about 3:00 a.m. Tuesday morning, Colorado time.

This is a bit speculative, of course, since we don't really know exactly when Ciel-2 started its journey, or exactly how fast it's moving. The implication of my math is that it started several hours earlier than the TLE was posted.

Any comment would be welcomed!

Fitzie

 

[Fitzie]

Oooh...I found a way that we can get the sat there faster. We can just use the metric system. According to n2yo.com it's traveling at .02 km/sec, which is equivalent to .0125 miles/sec (faster than the .01 miles/sec you're using). So it would arrive earlier than your calculations predict.

(Note: my point here is that the numbers you've based your calculations on aren't going to be very helpful, as they are clearly rounding to two decimal places...which will yield rather imprecise results.)

Well, dang. While I was writing my post, my point was made by choskyigragspa, albeit in lesser detail.

But I had fun writing it anyway!

Fitzie

 

[whatchel1]

speed will vary

The speed of movement will vary during the travel. Starts out slow gains speed the "middle" then slows down near end. It has less than 5 degrees to travel. In fact in the time it took me to write this it went .01 degrees.

 

[tigerfan33]

The speed of movement will vary during the travel. Starts out slow gains speed the "middle" then slows down near end. It has less than 5 degrees to travel. In fact in the time it took me to write this it went .01 degrees.

Could you write a little faster please.

 

[neoabacus]

Could you write a little faster please.

umm wouldn't that be type? unless you have a tablet pc

 

[Koilvr]

NERDS!!

 

[Bradtothebone]

For the techies, Jens Satre has a nice collection of scripts for satellites.

Online Satellite Calculations - 20©07 Jens T. Satre

Paste the TLE in the calculator and you will get lots of details. Plug in your location for exact times, etc. It's a 3 line TLE so be sure to add the Ciel 2 header when pasting.

Is there some trick to getting it to calculate? I pasted the TLE and hit "Load TLE" and nothing happens.

Brad

 

[nelson61]

Is there some trick to getting it to calculate? I pasted the TLE and hit "Load TLE" and nothing happens.

Brad

Be sure to type in "Ciel 2" on the first line followed by pasting the two line element on the following lines

I started having some epoch problems using it after Jan 1 09 and am not sure if it is my new browser or a cookie problem or if he has a bug in his clock. But, the degrees/day calculation is correct.

 

[nelson61]

24 hr N2yo check and satellite-calculations both indicate movement in range of 2.04-2.07 degrees/day

 

[Bradtothebone]

Be sure to type in "Ciel 2" on the first line followed by pasting the two line element on the following lines

I started having some epoch problems using it after Jan 1 09 and am not sure if it is my new browser or a cookie problem or if he has a bug in his clock. But, the degrees/day calculation is correct.

That's exactly what I did. It won't even calculate with the "default" data that it loads with......Hmm.

Brad

 

[nelson61]

That's exactly what I did. It won't even calculate with the "default" data that it loads with......Hmm.

Brad

last time I tried Chrome it would not load, so I am back to Microsoft with it.

 

[whatchel1]

Spell chk

Could you write a little faster please.

No cuz I used spell chk last nite. Didn't in this 1.

 

[kstuart]

I wonder if the spots will filled with LiL first, or they will handle all CONUS first. Next Wed., should make for some interesting uplink reports as the sufilling will (hopefully) commence.

Charlie indicated that the existing 129 channels would be moved from EchoStar 5 before any new HD Locals were added.

Of course, that should be obvious because EchoStar 5 is failing, and has excessively low signal strength in the NW and NE, where Ciel-2 should have no problem due to its Canadian tilt.

Spot beams always take longer to setup and tweak, so Dish may actually move the current local channels on EchoStar 5 to CONUS channels, so that they can stop using E*5 and move it to 148 as soon as possible.

Also, all the channels on 129 are either locals or else the lesser rated HD channels (e.g. ESPN2 rather than ESPN, Science rather than TNT). So, if there is a several hour outage to shuffle the channels at 1 a.m. or if there is some glitch the next day, it is not going to be a call center nightmare. Given the weeks of testing at 138, there doesn't seem to be anything standing in the way of moving all the E*5 channels during one late night session, and if they decide not to do so and space it out over several days, it will be "out of an abundance of caution".

 

[Acerbean]

NERDS!!

Yeah, Gilbert, Arvid, Booger, Lamar, Wormser, and Poindexter would be proud. I wanted to see a little more fighting amongst the math dudes. Nice work by all of them though, right or wrong.

"You just got your asses whipped...........by a bunch a goddamn nerds. NERDS!!!!" -John Goodman

Just think, there probably couldn't be any satellite TV with out nerds.



Go nerds!!!!

 

[HDRoberts]

Charlie indicated that the existing 129 channels would be moved from EchoStar 5 before any new HD Locals were added.

Of course, that should be obvious because EchoStar 5 is failing, and has excessively low signal strength in the NW and NE, where Ciel-2 should have no problem due to its Canadian tilt.

Spot beams always take longer to setup and tweak, so Dish may actually move the current local channels on EchoStar 5 to CONUS channels, so that they can stop using E*5 and move it to 148 as soon as possible.

There are plenty of existing locals on 129 that need taken care of.

25 TPs are currently in use on E5. Ciel-2 only has 16 CONUS TPs, so some of the locals are going to have to go straight to spot in the transfer.

 

[Awohar]

There are plenty of existing locals on 129 that need taken care of.

25 TPs are currently in use on E5. Ciel-2 only has 16 CONUS TPs, so some of the locals are going to have to go straight to spot in the transfer.

maybe they make improvement in efficiency by improving bit error ratios and higher symbol rates because higher output of new satellite thus to allow more channels per transonder

 

[db2]

Thank you Satellite Guys members!

From Left to Right: Fitzie, Digiblur, Hall, Scott and Goaliebob