Could the microHD be the culprit?

[highskies]

IMO my 7.5' dish is tracking pretty much spot on. But recently I started having problems with some signals on some birds. So I then ordered a C1 PLL lnbf which helped greatly with some of these now problem signals, but as to the other problem signals, it didn't help at all. I'm in East Texas and specifically have issues with some signals at 116.8 w. In the past on the MicroHD these signals I'm now having problems with use to lock with no problem at all, some of them even having a signal Q of 75 or better. The signals are still showing up, except I can't get a lock on them now. This has been like this for a good month or two. And as to LOS, no obstructions whatsoever.

And since the C1 PLL lnbf didn't help, and that my dish is tracking rather well, and that my RG6 is fairly new, plus not using any switches, what else could it be if not the MicroHD? Could it be tuner related? As to my lnbf, it's perfectly centered, plus it's the correct distance from the face of the dish, plus I have the skew correct as well.

One thing I might mention though, the pole is leaning a full bubble to the east. To compensate for that I then shimmed the mount and it's showing level all the away around it. That means it's level then, right?

 

[phlatwound]

Could be anything but the first thing I would try is (don't loosen anything!) push/pull/lift/lower your dish slightly when you think you have it aimed at 116.8 and see if your signal improves.

That could eliminate dish tracking as an issue if your signal shows no improvement.

I don't like that leaning pole, if the mount shows level it may be ok but would definitely want to check that out.

If your feed throat has been uncovered for any amount of time check for nests too.

 

[highskies]

Could be anything but the first thing I would try is (don't loosen anything!) push/pull/lift/lower your dish slightly when you think you have it aimed at 116.8 and see if your signal improves.

That could eliminate dish tracking as an issue if your signal shows no improvement.

I don't like that leaning pole, if the mount shows level it may be ok but would definitely want to check that out.

If your feed throat has been uncovered for any amount of time check for nests too.

I have tried various things, as to push/pull/lift/lower your dish slightly, etc, none of it ever improved anything though. As to the lnbf, just got it a cpl of days ago, the feed throat is then covered, and I'm pretty certain there are no nests in there yet. As to the lnbf, I'm very impressed with it, yet it's not helping in some cases. When I got that lnbf, some of the other signals i was having problems with, this fixed them right up. And as to the Mexican bird east of 116.8, no issues whatsoever with any signals on that bird. 116.8 is mainly where I'm still having issues. Actually it seems to be the only place I'm still having issues now for some reason. Even though I can't speak Spanish, I do enjoy watching some of the programming from time to time.

On a different note, is the following a coincidence? After I installed the C1 PLL, the overall pic quality seemed to improve quite a bit. The colors seem more saturated, even on 480 i feeds. In the past, when someone had a yellow shirt on for example, a lot of the times the yellow seemed a bit washed out. But not anymore though. Haven't done any readjusting of any settings on any of my display devices. An lnbf couldn't help in that regards, could it? It sure seems like something has improved though, meaning across the board, in regards to the pic coming more to life and not looking as washed out as before.

 

[Titanium]

The microHd 6/2013 firmware provided better service logging on the tight SCPC transponders.

The LNB(f) choice will not have any effect on the video decoding. As long as there is enough data to recreate the transport stream, the video will be decoded exactly the same. Wishful thinking?

 

[highskies]

The microHd 6/2013 firmware provided better service logging on the tight SCPC transponders.

The LNB(f) choice will not have any effect on the video decoding. As long as there is enough data to recreate the transport stream, the video will be decoded exactly the same. Wishful thinking?

I'm not certain which firmware I have loaded into the MicroHD. It looks like I might need to try and find the microHd 6/2013 and load that instead, in the event I have a different firmware loaded.

As to The LNB(f) choice will not have any effect on the video decoding. My eyes say otherwise though. I simply have no explanation for it then, other than a weird coincidence, since I already assumed it might be illogical for an lnbf to have this kind of effect on video. Could I be picking up less ground noise since installing that lnbf? Plus, there is a huge metal building 10 foot high or so less than 10' behind my dish.

BTW, I highly recommend that lnbf. No way at this point would I consider a different lnbf instead. I am very pleased that I purchased it, and have zero regrets.

 

[bpalone]

This is for what it is worth. It did seem that some of the signals on 116.8 were weaker to me the other day, when I was swinging across the arc putting everything into the ASC1. I didn't dwell on it and moved on without any apparent degradation across the rest of the arc. I am tad father north than you, so that might of been my reason (NE Wyoming).

I am running an 8 footer from Tek2000 for C band.

Good luck tracking it down. How do you know you are the right distance from center of dish to LNB? Did you measure or did you tweak it while watching a meter of some form? Just thinking out loud.

 

[N6BY]

... Did you measure or did you tweak it while watching a meter of some form? Just thinking out loud.

That's what I would do -- go out to the dish and adjust it with either a meter or a TV showing the signal strength.

 

[Martyn]

Can you tell us which transponders you are having problems with?

What positioner are you using? The ASC-1 sometimes gets a couple of clicks out of step with the dish and you need to fine tune it.

What is the signal meter screen showing on the problematic channels? If it's just the first two bars and none of the following ones, then you need to rescan the transponder.

 

[Titanium]

116.8 has quite a few channels which are SCPC (Single Channel Per Carrier). These signals are not as robust as the big fat MUXes that fill other satellites. There is quite a bit of signal variations between transponders particularly on this satellite.

I have the SiTV channel on quite often in the shop and notice the signal dropping out occasionally while other transponders are holding good quality.

Notice that many of the channels are located in regions which often experience significant weather events. A few times I have looked at weather sites and observed a possible weather event at the uplink locations that correlate with the signal drops.

A count error on a positioner will affect all positions, not just one satellite. Maybe more noticeable on weaker transponders, but all positions will shift, not just 116.8w.

When you installed the new LNBF, did you measure the FD and lock down or did you try and optimize by sliding towards/away from the reflector to optimize? Also, when setting the skew, did you replicate the old setting or rotate to optimize? Any misalignment will probably be more noticeable on this satellite because of the SCPC channels than on other satellites with bigger signals.

 

[highskies]

116.8 has quite a few channels which are SCPC (Single Channel Per Carrier). These signals are not as robust as the big fat MUXes that fill other satellites. There is quite a bit of signal variations between transponders particularly on this satellite.

I have the SiTV channel on quite often in the shop and notice the signal dropping out occasionally while other transponders are holding good quality.

Notice that many of the channels are located in regions which often experience significant weather events. A few times I have looked at weather sites and observed a possible weather event at the uplink locations that correlate with the signal drops.

A count error on a positioner will affect all positions, not just one satellite. Maybe more noticeable on weaker transponders, but all positions will shift, not just 116.8w.

When you installed the new LNBF, did you measure the FD and lock down or did you try and optimize by sliding towards/away from the reflector to optimize? Also, when setting the skew, did you replicate the old setting or rotate to optimize? Any misalignment will probably be more noticeable on this satellite because of the SCPC channels than on other satellites with bigger signals.

As to did I measure the FD and lock down, I did do that by using the depth of the dish I had written down some time ago. I got the depth by running a string across the lips of the dish, then measuring the depth like that. I then use that f/d mathematical formula. As to the skew, no, didn't replicate the old setting, did it by rotating to optimize. Plus forgot to mention, I also measured across the face of the dish, edge to edge, in order to also get the diameter of the dish in inches, since this is also needed for that f/d mathematical formula.


One feed in particular I used to watch quite a bit at 116.8 is PXTV, a sports HD channel. This channel used to always come in booming at 75Q or better on the MicroHD, well until a month or two ago anyway. I can still see the signal is there, except now I can't get a lock on it anymore no matter what I try. There's a few other channels at 116.8 like that as well. In the past, when blind scanning, I used to lock 60 or 70 channels it seems, and that they all played just fine. Now maybe only half that, and half of those are the EduSat mux channels, which always tune in and lock with no issues whatsoever. But I was already having those issues before I changed lnbfs.

Also would like to point out, I'm using the 4DTV 922 as my main dish positioner. Plus I would also like to point out as well, though I have no meters of any kind, I do have an lcd tv that I hook up to the MicroHD, and when I open up my blinds, and it's not sunny outside or anything, I can easily see on the TV the Sig Level and Sig Q level when depressing the INFO button on the MicroHD. And the fact I'm using a UHF remote with the 922, I can move the dish E or W if needed, from right there at the dish.

 

[Martyn]

When you say "I can still see the signal is there," what exactly do you mean?

When the receiver shows a 45% signal, that's just the LNB running and noise coming down the line. Are you getting a blue signal bar and what does the quality show?

 

[FaT Air]

pole is leaning a full bubble to the east

AND you haven't noticed a signal/performance drop on any other satellites??? I'd check (again)

The lean may have introduced an azimuth deviation that leveling with shims on the mount is uncorrected.
I'd put a cable on it, to an anchor on the opposite side, and pull it straight with a turnbuckle or such. May not move easily, may have to water the ground around the pole.

 

[Titanium]

The FD measurement is a good starting point, but you will want to move the feedhorn fore /aft to optimize.

An easier way to view the signal meter as a full screen display is to press the orange SIGNAL button on the top of the remote. This screen will also provide a 6 second histogram meter.

PXTV is on 3867 V 8131 - On my system (Northern California 10') this transponder's SNR is 8.4dB with SQ bouncing wildly between 35 - 60%. If the dish is bumped west from the optimized position for majority of 116.8 transponders, the SNR increases to 9.5dB and the SQ stabilizes to 45 - 50%. Compare this to 3819 H 30000 mux (Golden TV) with a SNR of 12.2dB and SQ solid at 78%.

 

[highskies]

When you say "I can still see the signal is there," what exactly do you mean?

When the receiver shows a 45% signal, that's just the LNB running and noise coming down the line. Are you getting a blue signal bar and what does the quality show?

On the MicroHD, take the signal with PXTV for example. When I depress the INFO button I am then able to see the Signal Level and Signal Quality. As to the former, it always shows 45% until a signal is locked. When a signal is locked the bar then turns blue and then indicates 90% as Signal Level. As to the Signal Quality, that will vary, but that bar will turn green. Certain signals play just fine if the Signal Quality is at least 20%. Most signals though need to be at least 70% or higher to play fine, which is the case most of the time anyway, except for certain signals like I already indicated.

Now getting back to the PXTV signal. I can see that it's still there because of the following reasons. Even though the Signal Level is still showing 45% and hasn't turned blue instead, the Signal Quality is jumping back and forth from 0 to about 10% but not locking, IOW the bar is not turning green. If the signal wasn't still there, it would just be showing a flat 0% for Signal Quality, except it isn't. I invested an entire day yesterday retuning, retracking, etc, nothing helped in regards to these signals I never had a problem with at 116.8 until a month or two ago. Clearly the problem is not lnbf related, or you would think the C1 PLL would have helped in that regards. I still think it has something to do with the MicroHD itself. I wish I had another receiver to try, except I don't. I've emininated everything yesterday..it has to be the MicroHD that is having tuning issues or something. It was suggested in this thread to use the microHd 6/2013 firmware. After checking then, that is the exact firmware I already have loaded.

As to some of the signals I am having problems with, I'll try and maybe submit them later today when I get more focused. Just woke up not too long ago.

 

[highskies]

The FD measurement is a good starting point, but you will want to move the feedhorn fore /aft to optimize.

An easier way to view the signal meter as a full screen display is to press the orange SIGNAL button on the top of the remote. This screen will also provide a 6 second histogram meter.

PXTV is on 3867 V 8131 - On my system (Northern California 10') this transponder's SNR is 8.4dB with SQ bouncing wildly between 35 - 60%. If the dish is bumped west from the optimized position for majority of 116.8 transponders, the SNR increases to 9.5dB and the SQ stabilizes to 45 - 50%. Compare this to 3819 H 30000 mux (Golden TV) with a SNR of 12.2dB and SQ solid at 78%.

As to that orange button, I hate the sound of that tone that is played when using that button. Muting the MicroHD doesn't help, have to mute the TV instead. Since I'm not a tech, I have no clue what the tone is even needed for, but personally I find it to be a bit annoying, and especially my wife does as well. She throws a serious tantrum any time she hears that tone.

Before I started having issues with 3867 V 8131 a month or two ago, the SQ usually stayed a solid 70 or 75 %, don't recall exactly which at the moment, but I know it was at least 70% and that it didn't bounce around or anything.

 

[highskies]

AND you haven't noticed a signal/performance drop on any other satellites??? I'd check (again)

The lean may have introduced an azimuth deviation that leveling with shims on the mount is uncorrected.
I'd put a cable on it, to an anchor on the opposite side, and pull it straight with a turnbuckle or such. May not move easily, may have to water the ground around the pole.

As to that, when I first checked this with one level, that's what it seemed to indicate. Yesterday my wife found a brand new level stored away in the back bedroom, I used that on the pole instead, while it does seem to be leaning a little to the east, it's not as profound as the other level was indicating. Maybe a quarter of a bubble if that. The other level I always left outside in the rain all the time, plus maybe it had some rough spots on it, thus not reading accurately? Using that new level, it indicates perfectly level all around the mount, that being after shimming the east side a bit. I basically used a flat screwdriver for a shim. Put it in the space between the mount and pole, then used a hammer to drive it upwards a bit. Seems to do the trick anyway.

 

[Titanium]

As to that orange button, I hate the sound of that tone that is played when using that button. Muting the MicroHD doesn't help, have to mute the TV instead. Since I'm not a tech, I have no clue what the tone is even needed for, but personally I find it to be a bit annoying, and especially my wife does as well.

Turn off the install level tone in the full screen meter by pressing the red button on the remote.

Some folks like to hear if the quality level is increasing or decreasing by hearing the tone pitch change as they adjust the dish aiming.

 

[highskies]

I completely change my mind as to the problem possibly being with the MicroHD. I no longer think that is even logical. The problem is something on my end with the dish itself. I messed with the dish some more today, managed to get a number of signals to lock and play at 116.8 that weren't even locking and playing when I first started this thread. Still can't get PXTV to lock, nor the signal that has ActivaTV, since I used to watch that MUX quite a bit as well. Even have Sprout HD at 131 W locking and playing again. Lost that signal ages ago but have managed to find it again. Not a channel I watch, but at least it tells me that I'm getting there.

My southern Sat is 95 W. HRTV still coming in at a SQ of 75 or so. I can see to 72 W, but I mainly only travel to 87 W, that's about as far east as I go. The Luken chs still booming in at around 80 SQ or so. As to the west end of the arc, I can see all the way to 139 W. Since there seems to be no video chs there that I know of, some radio stations though, at 135 W then, NWCN is still locking and playing just fine with a SQ of around 70 or so. This should indicate I'm tracking pretty good. Mainly the only thing I'm still having issues with is PXTV and the Activa Mux. For the life of me I can't figure out why I can no longer get a lock in these? Maybe I just need to quit while I'm ahead then, yet at the same time I like to try and solve things, and this PXTV and Activa Mux is still not solved.



Still two of the best buying decisions I have made in the past year or so...that being the purchasing of the MicroHD and the C1-PLL. Unfortunately I was wrongly thinking the MicroHD may have been developing tuning issues or something. I no longer think that's a reasonable possibility.

 

[Titanium]

Even though the coax is newer, have you tried a temporary drop? Replaced fittings? Checked for sharp bends in the coax? Water wicking into the coax via a fitting or nick in the jacket can do some strange things and selectively attenuate frequencies.

You also need to consider that your have terrestrial interference. Any new wireless devices, water pumps, air conditioners, etc.? If you have access to a spectrum analyzer there might be some source of RF that may be new. Many years ago, my mom's c-band system had interference from a failing electrics transformers not a pole over a block away that was wiping out a block of channels. Interference can originate from many sources.

Sometimes I have had to move a dish to the other side of a structure to block interference and on rare occasions, have even built a "RF fence" out of chicken wire.

Just more ideas if you are sure that everything is tracking and optimized.

 

[highskies]

Got around to putting two strings across the dish, one from top to bottom, the other from E to west. The strings don't touch. The string top to bottom measures 14 inches from the faceplate. The string E to W measures 14 3/8 inches from the faceplate. Ideally the strings should be touching where they intersect, except they apparently don't. So how major is this, since there is a 3/8 inch gap indicating the dish is warped? Any way to possibly fix this? Or maybe some way to compensate for this? Am I even winning if I'm somehow managing to get the scaler and feedhorn the same distances from 3 different points on the dish's edge?

What I did just discover, even though the scaler is measuring the same from 3 different spots from the outer edge of the dish, when I measure up from the faceplace to the bottom of the scaler at different points, it's not reading the same all the way around, thus not level then. The feedhorn OTOH measures the same distances from the faceplate, but obviously is not perfectly parallel with the scaler ring though, since the scaler isn't level.

Since there are clearly sharp folks on this board, any useful tips you can give me besides tossing the dish in the trash and getting another one, since that is not an option for me at this point?