DISH says Give Customers What They Want
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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I am so sick of the bad ones. It seems like the recession and economy has really brought them out. Everybody looking for something free or to beat your prices down to the point you are not making a penny after expenses.
Can you get your local HD channels over the air with an outdoor antenna? That is what we have always done. The SD Local channels on cable and satellite look like crap.
I don't think the big box stores have helped with any of this either. As customers demand lower prices they big box stores fight each other to have the lowest price no matter how small the margin is. They figure they will make their money based on quantity and add-on sales that no one needs.
Now the big box stores are finding they screwed themselves and are struggling. Some have closed and others are trying whatever they can to keep customers coming in and buying more profitable items. Best Buy has been struggling big time along with Sears. I don't know how Lowes is doing it either. Constantly we get customers coming in saying they want to buy from us because they are local but they want us to match Lowes prices. Hard to match prices that only allow for a 10% margin and then throw in free delivery and installation. All I can say is, no, we can not match those prices but if you want local people to deliver and install and then have us available for service in the future we are your best choice.
Now the big box stores are finding they screwed themselves and are struggling. Some have closed and others are trying whatever they can to keep customers coming in and buying more profitable items. Best Buy has been struggling big time along with Sears. I don't know how Lowes is doing it either. Constantly we get customers coming in saying they want to buy from us because they are local but they want us to match Lowes prices. Hard to match prices that only allow for a 10% margin and then throw in free delivery and installation. All I can say is, no, we can not match those prices but if you want local people to deliver and install and then have us available for service in the future we are your best choice.
true. it was pretty amazing to see BestBuy change their price match policies in order to alleviate all the showroom shopping going on.
as dell resellers for 12+ years, we cannot match the price of units sold at BB or Wally World. there was a time when dell allowed a decent markup, but now it varies between 3%-5%---> almost always closer to 3.
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It's not just the stores either, it's the manufacturers. They are the ones who determine what their products need to be sold for. They are finally trying to make it so all retailers, big box or small, can finally make some money of TVs. The manufacturer makes the same price sheet for all stores and they have to go by it. Now we don't have to worry about the price comparison and customers can buy a TV based on who provides the best service and buying experience.
From a non-retailer/installer viewpoint, I think the solution to these problems lies in getting the customer to recognize the value of paying a slightly higher markup. Figuring out how to do that and distinguish your business from others is one of the burdens of capitalism.
As long as the competition isn't selling that high end product dirt cheap also. We try to find ourselve products that offer quality and are not sold in all the other stores. It drives me crazy to see Walmart picking up the brands that are considered better, like Samsung. Stick with the cheap crap Walmart.
Blame Samsung and not Walmart on that. Samsung must be willing to lower their prices enough to convince Walmart to sell their product.
And what do consider crap? Do you feel that Vizio is crap and Sony is quality? Yet I've seen plenty of Vizio tv's that are as good, if not better than what Sony sells.
No argument there. But at least there's the "People of Walmart" website to mock!
Not buying it..There simply is not enough capacity on wireless systems to handle video and audio. Especially in HD. The coverage of towers has to improve 100 fold.
Right now wireless internet in most areas of the country is sketchy at best. I live in a major metro area and where I live and work 4G is non-existent. Sprint does not work here. There is a gigantic hole in their coverage.
The need for hardwire and STB's will exist for quite some time.
I once worked for a man who believed that if you provided the highest quality customer experience, you didn't have to price match and customers would pay more versus going across the street to Best Buy. He believed it so adamantly, he sold DVDs and Blu-Rays for $29-39 (when they first came out) against Best Buy's $22.99 and $19.99 day 1 price points. He believed "customer service" would result in customers paying 40% ($17) more per item against a nearby competitor.
I begged, I pleaded, and finally I told him to shut the hell up and I dropped the prices to match Best Buy's as "my" Promotion of the Week. Guess what, sales jumped 85%. Problem was he was a stubborn and stupid bastard. After the week ran up he forced me to shift my prices back to $29-39.
That company has since been shuttered. Customers don't give a rat's ass if you wipe for them, massage their feet and take out their dry cleaning. They WILL NOT pay more for better quality on a consistent basis. They'll pay perhaps 2% more for convenience; not a profit by any measure. Walmart is crystal clear proof of this. People who shop at Nordstrom's and Neiman Marcus, will still shop at Walmart.
As far as capitalism, you're quoting an ideal that hasn't existed since before corporate corruption and customer apathy. It's all about the almighty dollar to both consumer and business now. Businesses by law (unless you're a bank apparently) are required to be relatively fair in the grand scheme. A customer on the other hand can lie, cheat and steal their way to bottom barrel prices. And unlike a business who wants to make margin on their competitor, but doesn't want to put their competitor out of business to avoid monopoly, customers have no such reservations about screwing over their peers; at all...
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I understand why as someone involved in a competitive business, you might feel that way. However, to many of us not in the business, it sounds like you are saying "How dare anyone offer to sell nice stuff to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it?". The greater good is in getting the high quality things that you yourself said are more durable and people would be better off with in the homes of as many people as possible, isn't it?
Wal-Mart has all sorts of issues with it. But I'm not sure I'd be able to eat very well if not for their low grocery prices. And that's the thing. Do I wish they'd be more union friendly and treat their workers better? Absolutely. Am I going to survive on nothing but ramen and oatmeal at the more expensive grocery store when I could be buying chicken and fruit at Wal-Mart? No. It's also worth pointing out that the more expensive grocery isn't necessarily treating their workers right either.
Do you think CSRs are not authorized to give price breaks and such? I'm sure they are. Dish likely has it's own complicated computer algorithms to determine who gets what and what the magic words are to say to bring those into play. To think otherwise is probably naive when talking about a modern company of that scale.
Now, you argue that Dish must take any profit they lose from customers away from their employees in forms of salary, and likewise would increase employee salary if customers paid more, but I don't feel that's the case. The pattern of behavior with Dish, and most large corporations, is to pocket any extra potential profit they can, rather than give it back to customers or employees, unless they feel doing so will increase their profit further. Employees take a pay cut, the company pockets it. Customers pay more, the company pockets it. People have analyzed the behavior of large corporations as if said corporations were the people that the courts have inexplicably ruled they are, and determined that said corporations, as people, generally qualify as psychopaths based on their attitudes and behavior.
Ah, but no one forces Dish or any other television providers to provide them less expensive service. They simply negotiate, or mention that they might otherwise have to switch to a competing service, or discontinue service. The corporation can always say no, it's just that they might lose the customer. It's not the customer's duty to pay a corporation whatever it wants for whatever it is willing to offer. The corporation can make a deal to keep the customer, or not. A customer who solicits or accepts such an offer is by definition not taking anything in the sense of stealing, it's closer to the gift that you describe, although gift is a bit of a stretch in the sense that the customer still has to pay quite a bit for service even with a relatively "generous" discount these days, and the company is offering the special right only because it feels that it's in it's own long-term best business interests, not out of innate generosity..
You don't know that they aren't making money hand over fist on me either. Could go either way. The money Dish spends on misleading advertising aka new customer acquisition isn't my concern. What I do know is that they attracted me with big ads promising free installation, free HD equipment for the duration of service, and free HD for life, and charged me for installation and only gave me SD equipment. Sure, there was the fine print that justified all that, but these guys aren't angels. And we do know in the mists of difficult economic times for many people, they are making a billion dollars a year off folks.
I think corporations squeeze every last dime they can out of every last person they can. If they make less on some people with less money, it's because there aren't as many dimes to squeeze. There is probably a whole science to determining just how much a company can push before people go to a competitor or due without for financial reasons. If you feel like you pay too much for something, shop around for a better deal, or call up your bank or something and ask for a better interest rate.
You complain about the interest rate you pay, but I can't get credit at all. It's not because of missed bills, it's because I'm poor and can't "establish" credit. So, you see, you're quantitatively being treated better because of your money. I'd love to be able to get credit at even your interest rates, assuming they are somewhere in the realm of not being loan shark type rates. I have a cavity that needs to be filled and a computer that needs to be replaced, neither of which I can afford to do without borrowing money that I can't borrow, among other things.
Did I tell them to go placing ads everywhere? That's most of the customer acquisition money right there. The old SD equipment they provided would have paid for itself very quickly. I'm beyond my two year contract now. I'm guessing they're making some gravy here. They paid less for me than they have to pay to get people with better credit, and I pay all my bills on time.
The good old days of child labor, 100 hour work weeks, slave wages, no holidays, no benefits, and Upton Sinclair "The Jungle"-like treatment of consumers? I remember hearing a sermon from an old preacher one Christmas Eve (I'm not a very religious person, but occasionally I'll stop in on a holiday). He described growing up in Pittsburgh in the old days where the newly fallen snow would instantly turn black from all the factory soot and people's clothes drying on clothes lines would be dirtier when they retrieved them than before they put them out. Even the people who didn't necessarily work for or buy from the companies running the factories had to put up with that. Heck, where I live (Not Pittsburgh), to this day the whole area smells when it rains or the wind blows a certain way. I walk around my apartment trying to figure out where the smell is coming from, open up a window, and it's the great outdoors, smelling like a landfill because of industrial pollutants.
Anyway, the thing is, plenty of people get the best equipment at free or low cost, that's what they advertise, that's what they should deliver. Cable can get me HD equipment and/or DVR with no upfront cost. When my Internet deal expires, I may accept that offer and get an introductory low-cost bundle. I'll save a substantial amount of money over all between the introductory rate on the bundle versus full price Dish TV and cable Internet, and I'll have better equipment, or I can go with SD and no DVR and save even more (the more likely scenario is the latter). I might not do that because of channel selection and so forth, but it's very possible I may simply not be able to afford full priced TV from Dish and full-priced Internet from the cable company, leaving me little choice but to make a move.
Now, if and when circumstances dictate that I make that move, I may call Dish up first and ask them if they can make me a good enough offer that I'll be able to afford to stay. If they think it's worthwhile to do it, they'll do it, if they don't, they won't. I assume you'd say I shouldn't even given them a chance to retain my business?
Also, worth keeping in mind is that it was financial circumstances that forced the move to the first place. In a world that operated as you seem to prefer, I'd either still be back at the cable company or have no television service (I actually cancelled cable first and then got Dish a few weeks later when I found that I was miserable without the connection TV and Internet offer me with the outside world). Dish got me because things operate as they do, and they'll likely get a chance to keep me because of that as well if things reach the point where I can no longer find a way to afford them, and let them have a shot at making me an offer I can live with before jumping to a competitor or to nothing.
I'm sure it must be frustrating to some executives or top shareholders of corporations that people don't all behave like automatons who simply sign off on every new rate increase or service charge and transfer the money each month, but many of us simply can't do that indefinitely. I'm not saying we do them a favor by offering them a chance to keep us at a better temporary rate, we're obviously acting in our own self interest, but it is giving them an option, the alternative to which would be leaving them no option and simply cancelling. Now they can work with us or accept our cancellations. So, at worst, they are where they'd be if they didn't negotiate.
And, many times, a temporary discount can keep a customer longer term. For example, my finances were too tight to afford television when I signed up with Dish, but their first year discount allowed me to afford it, and then I stuck around for the second year at much closer to full price, and now I am on a third year that I'm not even contractually obligated for. A temporary cable discount for 6 or 12 months kept me around for five years. Companies benefit from being able to offer discounts that keep customers around to potentially pay full price later. Don't think these companies don't know that they benefit a ton from inertia and people not wanting to be hassled with cancelling things and making switches or changing their routines.
They also benefit from probably undeserved customer loyalty and, believe it or not, I'm a pretty loyal guy. Part of me liked that logo on my cable box and didn't want to stop doing business with them, but I didn't have a choice financially. When I reach that point with Dish, they may not have to give me the equivalent savings and perks that bundling with the cable company would, but they probably will have to give me something, or lose me, simply because I need to eat, I need a roof over my head, I have health expenses, the dog has expenses, etc.. Price of everything gets too high and something has to be done.
For example, at some point, I am going to have to get this tooth taken care of. If I leave it be, eventually it'll turn into an abscess, which are painful and at that point require either a root canal or the tooth being pulled (Cheaper, but you look like a hockey player or an extra from the cast of Hee-Haw). Eventually, if you leave them be for years upon years, they can get infected badly and you die. So, yeah, I might have to cancel the television at some point or ask for a discount or whatever and fix my tooth (Or something similar down the line if I figure out how to do that some other way). Sorry if that means Dish makes $1,000,000,000 that year instead of $1,000,000,100 or whatever.
I don't think all well off folks are bad people. Some of them are my friends and relatives, or at least have been historically (Lots of people struggling in my circles these days). I just think poor folks like myself shouldn't be shamed for trying to make our lives better or negotiating prices. It's perfectly reasonable for us to try to do that. It's not the equivalent of stealing your tires (Which I wouldn't do).
I think I can set my own priorities.
You set your's, I'll set mine, and we'll live our lives, okay? But, look, imagine if you will long-term health issues that mean you a) have very little money and will never have much more and b) have to spend a lot of time due to a combination of lack of funds (takes money to go very far) and physical issues sitting in a small run-down apartment with noisy neighbors. Suddenly, things like TV and Internet would seem more important so you don't literally want to die of boredom or lack of connection with other people, and to distract you from circumstance. People like to be connected with the world and keep their minds active, and get a mental break from tedium and misery. And how much that means to them financially and what sacrifices they want to make to do it is their own business. Not everyone is willing to live like a religionless monk. Heck, some people give me grief for having a dog, my best friend in the world, who nags me to take painful walks, which I appreciate because it keeps my health from deteriorating too rapidly despite the pain. But, hey, he doesn't get rare lama meat from the top of mountains in Tibet shipped in, just normal dog food and treats, so some people think he should have a better home, and I should have better priorities than having a dog in a lot of people's minds.
Like I said, I'll set my own priorities, thank you very much.
I think a lot of people just don't get it. They have more sympathy for corporations than real people, and the problems of billionaires than the problems of people in legitimately tough circumstances. Somehow, the poor people are the bad guy. People watch too much FOX News, though they may not have any better option because MSNBC is tiered higher. It's as though wealthy corporations give better placement to channels that spread their propaganda. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.
Nothing wrong with rich people or the upper middle class to my way of thinking. I'd love to be rich if I could be. So, I get it. That doesn't make them bad people. But yeah, if I feel less sympathy for a guy who comes home in his mansion in his Corvette and kisses his trophy wife every night losing a few bucks than a poor military veteran working at the 7-11 or whatever who just wants a $10 a month break on his TV bill so he can watch his favorite baseball team- especially when all the second guy is doing is asking for a discount (Not taking it, asking for it) and similar folks. That money means more to the people who have less of it- it makes more of a difference in their lives day to day.
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I have no problem with making nice products affordable to more people but at what cost? The family owned businesses can't afford to sell at those low margins. So now everyone goes to Walmart to save $50 on a TV or $30 on their groceries and there goes your neighborhood family owned stores. With everyone shopping at these big stores how could anyone feel they have a chance to start their own business?
One of my distributors told me he loses about one client every month because they are either too old to run the business or they just can't afford to keep the doors open. Makes me sad to see it happen. My town is only 4,000 people with smaller surrounding towns and there are very few shops in any of them. Some new ones open up from time to time but they never last. It's amazing how many of them prefer to drive 25 miles to shop at Best Buy, Walmart, Lowes and Sears. You can't tell me it makes sense to drive 25 miles to buy groceries at Walmart when there are two perfectly good grocery stores right in town.
One of my distributors told me he loses about one client every month because they are either too old to run the business or they just can't afford to keep the doors open. Makes me sad to see it happen. My town is only 4,000 people with smaller surrounding towns and there are very few shops in any of them. Some new ones open up from time to time but they never last. It's amazing how many of them prefer to drive 25 miles to shop at Best Buy, Walmart, Lowes and Sears. You can't tell me it makes sense to drive 25 miles to buy groceries at Walmart when there are two perfectly good grocery stores right in town.
