HDTV Cable requirements

[Bluesman1952]

Hello - I have had no luck getting info from Directv and found this website and hoping you can help. I had an HDTV installation set for today, but when the installer called he asked some questions and he decided that I should call DirecTV back because he said he had to run additional coax for HDTV to work. Now, What I ordered was JUST HDTV, NO DVR. What I have now is standard DirecTV with two receivers. When I ordered HDTV, the Tech support team at DirecTV said they only need to replace the dish and box and that's all. This is for just ONE of the TV's. The other is remaining Standard.

So, my question to any experts out there is, if I already have standard service, why did the installer say he needed to add another coax which would entail digging up my yard, drilling into the house, running the new cable up to the attic where the junction box is, then snaking it back down? DirecTV said sometimes they try and make money off you by doing unneeded work?

I don't know - When I look outside, I see a double coax that probably splits when it gets to the junction box in the attic. Who has the answer? Is the double coax coming in what I need for HDTV and still get a standard signal on the non-HDTV receiver?

I hope I explained myself properly.
Thanks!!!

Joe

 

[Joe Diamond]

Alright Joe....from another Joe,

First, the attic junction tells me this as an older rancher or similar that had an antenna on the roof or was cabled for it. The cable companies can go directly to this junction and connect their system. This is also sorta possible with Directv. BUT IF there are any splitters in your system they must be removed and cabled around. Likewise the splitter in the attic needs to be upgraded to a DirecTV specification.

Then there is the dish location. Possibly the tech can use the underground runs I assume are already there. IF they are not too long and are undamaged. IT is here the tech probably wants to dump your installation. He doesn't want to dig up your yard or even negotiate doing it for you. AND if he connects to your underground run....and it fails...it will be him...one way or another who gets screwed for the installation failure.
I would suggest offering the next guy the option of installing the dish....probably a SWM (Single Wire Multiswitch) dish that will give you your HD service. Then you get the cable dug in. This is not a trench thing...just a spade cut with the cable pushed in with a soft plastic wood or plastic tool.

THEN the SWM dish can be grounded near your electric meter and run to the attic where the SWM splitter will be installed.

There is a requirement for a Power Inserter (PI) somewhere in the cable run but the tech can move it to the easiest spot.
There is a Requirement / suggestion for solid copper coax cable. Only consider this if your outside underground cable run is real long.

Contrast this with the FREE installation that provides surface cable runs and a dish on the building.

Joe

 

[Bluesman1952]

Alright Joe....from another Joe,

First, the attic junction tells me this as an older rancher or similar that had an antenna on the roof or was cabled for it. The cable companies can go directly to this junction and connect their system. This is also sorta possible with Directv. BUT IF there are any splitters in your system they must be removed and cabled around. Likewise the splitter in the attic needs to be upgraded to a DirecTV specification.

Then there is the dish location. Possibly the tech can use the underground runs I assume are already there. IF they are not too long and are undamaged. IT is here the tech probably wants to dump your installation. He doesn't want to dig up your yard or even negotiate doing it for you. AND if he connects to your underground run....and it fails...it will be him...one way or another who gets screwed for the installation failure.
I would suggest offering the next guy the option of installing the dish....probably a SWM (Single Wire Multiswitch) dish that will give you your HD service. Then you get the cable dug in. This is not a trench thing...just a spade cut with the cable pushed in with a soft plastic wood or plastic tool.

THEN the SWM dish can be grounded near your electric meter and run to the attic where the SWM splitter will be installed.

There is a requirement for a Power Inserter (PI) somewhere in the cable run but the tech can move it to the easiest spot.
There is a Requirement / suggestion for solid copper coax cable. Only consider this if your outside underground cable run is real long.

Contrast this with the FREE installation that provides surface cable runs and a dish on the building.

Joe

OK Joe, I somewhat understand, but still a bit confused. This house is 8 years old and it was DirecTV ready...not cable or anything else - I had the house built and the builder decided to put the junction in the attic. So, another coax IS required even though I already have DirecTV? The dish is currently 15 feet from the side of the house and the first installer said he uses a shovel and digs a trench...This is what bothers me...So - The attic junction needs to be replaced even though I currently have 2 standard boxes running off it and a third line uused?

Whatever needs to be done I guess it has to be - I wish I could have got a decent picture without HDTV - It's just that the newer TV's only have RCA, HDMI and RGB inputs and the older DTV boxes only have S video and RCA. I am stuck!

 

[Jimbo]

To get HD you need either Component or HDMI connections available, those older boxes you mentioned probably were only SD.

You could reschedule with D* and see what the next installer has to say about it, or contact a local D* installation company for other options.

Without knowing what you have recvr wise and dish now and what your planning to end up with, it's hard to say just what you need vs already have.

If your line from your dish is underground and like your saying, only 15 ft, chances are it's fine to reuse for the new dish required for HD.
Then again, we don't know what dish you currently have yet.

You'll need a Slimline dish, SWM or not to get HD, IF you go with the Non SWM, you'll need 4 lines from the dish to the recvr(s).
With a SWM set up you'll only need 1 line, but you'll need a Power Inserter in place like Joe said, somewhere in the line.

What do you want your set up to end up handling, how many TV's, Recvrs ext.

 

[Bluesman1952]

That's what I did - I rescheduled and requested a new installer. In the meantime, yes, my 2005 standard box only has RCA jacks and S video, and the TV only had RCA jacks and HDMI and Component.
The dish out there has a double coax coming into the house. On the house there is actually room for 4 cables, but currently only 2 are connected. I am running two standard boxes inside and one will remain standard while my room will eventually be HD. How can explain what dish I have? a double coax runs from it to the house and all wires end up in the attic and fished back down - The builders did that, not me. Where would this power inserter go? Anywhere in the line? Or does the guy in fact have to work in the attic - It seems they want a small fortune since they call this a custom setup - S video would have been just fine, but they no longer make LED large screen TV's with S video....

To get HD you need either Component or HDMI connections available, those older boxes you mentioned probably were only SD.

You could reschedule with D* and see what the next installer has to say about it, or contact a local D* installation company for other options.

Without knowing what you have recvr wise and dish now and what your planning to end up with, it's hard to say just what you need vs already have.

If your line from your dish is underground and like your saying, only 15 ft, chances are it's fine to reuse for the new dish required for HD.
Then ahgain, we don't know what dish you currently have yet.

You'll need a Slimline dish, SWM or not to get HD, IF you go with the Non SWM, you'll need 4 lines from the dish to the recvr(s).
With a SWM set up you'll only need 1 line, but you'll need a Power Inserter in place like Joe said, somewhere in the line.

What do you want your set up to end up handling, how many TV's, Recvrs ext.

 

[Jimbo]

That's what I did - I rescheduled and requested a new installer. In the meantime, yes, my 2005 standard box only has RCA jacks and S video, and the TV only had RCA jacks and HDMI and Component.
The dish out there has a double coax coming into the house. On the house there is actually room for 4 cables, but currently only 2 are connected. I am running two standard boxes inside and one will remain standard while my room will eventually be HD. How can explain what dish I have? a double coax runs from it to the house and all wires end up in the attic and fished back down - The builders did that, not me. Where would this power inserter go? Anywhere in the line? Or does the guy in fact have to work in the attic - It seems they want a small fortune since they call this a custom setup - S video would have been just fine, but they no longer make LED large screen TV's with S video....

First, S video will Not get you HD ...
IF the dish has 2 coax coming in, to set up a SWM, you would need to get to the other end of the coax (attic, or was this connected at a ground block outside) at that point you would want to place a D* splitter and run the other recvrs from there, in this set up, all recvrs would need to be connected to the D* splitter (this is different from a Cabe TV splitter).
NO Cable Splitters can be between the dish and the (in this case the SWM splitter, actually you shouldn't use ANY Cable Splitters in this new set up) recvr.

So, if the guys gonna do a SWM set up, he'll need to get to the other end, potentially in the attic.
If he's doing a NON SWM set up, you'll need 4 lines from the existing dish to the house. (thus the need to add more lines from the dish.)

 

[stardust3]

I'll bet the standard receivers are non swm capable hence the need for a 4 wire lnb & switch replacement.

 

[stardust3]

Sounds like time to jump ship imo.

 

[Bluesman1952]

OK now I fully understand...I DO know that S video doesn't give HD, but S video was a heck of a lot better than these RCA Jacks. I basically am getting a headache from the blurry picture. If what you tell me is correct, and I am sure it is, D* is once again lying to me - I guess just to get a sale on HD they will say anything hoping that once the installer gets here I go along with anything he says.....From what I see outside, There is the double coax going to a connector on the house that has the capability of handling 4 inputs but only the two are connected. I would assume the ground is at that point where my regular electric comes in but who knows? I guess I will let him show up and tell me what I need. Thanks for your input - you have been helpful and I appreciate all who gave advice.
Thanks!!!!

First,S video will Not get you HD ...
IF the dish has 2 coax coming in, to set up a SWM, you would need to get to the other end of the coax (attic, or was this connected at a ground block outside) at that point you would want to place a D* splitter and run the other recvrs from there, in this set up, all recvrs would need to be connected to the D* splitter (this is different from a Cabe TV splitter).
NO Cable Splitters can be between the dish and the (in this case the SWM splitter, actually you shouldn't use ANY Cable Splitters in this new set up) recvr.

So, if the guys gonna do a SWM set up, he'll need to get to the other end, potentially in the attic.
If he's doing a NON SWM set up, you'll need 4 lines from the existing dish to the house. (thus the need to add more lines from the dish.)

 

[raoul5788]

to Satelliteguys Bluesman1952!

I'm a bit confused here. How many hd boxes do you want, and do you want any others also? Just a receiver, or a dvr?

 

[Bluesman1952]

I currently have two standard Non-SWM receivers and I only want ONE of them HD. NO DVR - I don't want this installer to come here and tell me he has to dig up my yard and drill in my siding after DTV told me they can use existing cables ONLY. Some installers are neat and use a spade to make a slit in the grass, but the first installer I had dug a 6 inch deep trench X 8 inches wide and caused me erosion issues. It is hard to get seed to grow here under the pines. I am disgusted! The only reason I am not switching companies is because DTV grandfathered in an old package I had when living in NY and I get all the football games without NFL ticket - They have me by the you know whats!

to Satelliteguys Bluesman1952!

I'm a bit confused here. How many hd boxes do you want, and do you want any others also? Just a receiver, or a dvr?

 

[Jimbo]

Hey guys,
If he's only using a total of 2 recvrs, neither DVR's, he should be able to get away with out going to a SWM set up, 1 to the new High Def recvr, whatever the make they give him and keep the other SD recvr the way it is, using the existing 2 lines from the dish, 1 line going into each recvr ....

This would be just an old style swap out to a HD recvr.
They WILL need to get a Slimline dish installed regardless, but should be able to do the job without adding lines, IF this is the way it's set up.

Am I thinking correctly here guys, or am I missing something ?

He's not asking for any of the fancy stuff here, just to put in a HD recvr.

Now if he wants a DVR, thats another story, he will need more lines ran to the dish.

 

[Bluesman1952]

Hey Jimbo - You have it exactly right. I just got off the phone with DTV to verify my installation for Thursday, and they said they will send the installer an HD box with a slimline dish, no charge, and that's all I should need. However, he said all installers are different and they may want to do things a different way - That doesn't sound right to me - My ONLY reason for HD service is to make the DTV receiver compatible with my new TV - I am stuck with RCA jacks as I have said and the picture stinks....Thank you!!! I hope you are right!!!

Hey guys,
If he's only using a total of 2 recvrs, neither DVR's, he should be able to get away with out going to a SWM set up, 1 to the new High Def recvr, whatever the make they give him and keep the other SD recvr the way it is, using the existing 2 lines from the dish, 1 line going into each recvr ....

This would be just an old style swap out to a HD recvr.
They WILL need to get a Slimline dish installed regardless, but should be able to do the job without adding lines, IF this is the way it's set up.

Am I thinking correctly here guys, or am I missing something ?

He's not asking for any of the fancy stuff here, just to put in a HD recvr.

Now if he wants a DVR, thats another story, he will need more lines ran to the dish.

 

[raoul5788]

I agree Jimbo. There may be an issue with splitters inside the house, but if there are two lines to the house from the dish, new ones could be run inside the house bypassing the splitters. It sounds like the tech didn't know what he was doing, or was lazy.

 

[Jimbo]

Hey Jimbo - You have it exactly right. I just got off the phone with DTV to verify my installation for Thursday, and they said they will send the installer an HD box with a slimline dish, no charge, and that's all I should need. However, he said all installers are different and they may want to do things a different way - That doesn't sound right to me - My ONLY reason for HD service is to make the DTV receiver compatible with my new TV - I am stuck with RCA jacks as I have said and the picture stinks....Thank you!!! I hope you are right!!!

Typically, you would think it would go as we mentioned above, I would think that would get the job done right and cover everything you want.

MOST, will change people over to the SWM as it's the newest and the best for the future, however in your situation, I don't see a need for it, unless the coax from the dish to the home is no good ... not sure why that would be, but you never know.

 

[Jimbo]

I agree Jimbo. There may be an issue with splitters inside the house, but if there are two lines to the house from the dish, new ones could be run inside the house bypassing the splitters. It sounds like the tech didn't know what he was doing, or was lazy.

Seeing he's already had service, I would think that Cable Splitter would not be an issue for him as they would have already been removed or bypassed it they were there.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Seeing he's already had service, I would think that Cable Splitter would not be an issue for him as they would have already been removed or bypassed it they were there.

I think everything has been covered. The only unknown might be the LOS for the Slimline /SWM for the HD the LOS is slightly wider and more prone to being blocked for the 99 & 103 sats. He mentions trees near the dish sooooo gotta wait. The splitter in the attic may well be a 3x4 multiswitch.

Joe

 

[Bluesman1952]

Well - this is very encouraging! The line outside is in great condition and I don't think it needs replacing. The first tech sounded like he didn't want to be bothered because it was a Saturday....I am calling DTV back and making sure they are sending him with a slimline. As I said, If I can get away with the existing cables, I don't care if it isn't the "best" way to go, as long as the new receiver and the TV will now be compayible and I can make use of the HDMI input for the best possible picture - If I was getting a good picture, I wouldn't bother with HD - I get all the HD I want from Blu Ray movies.

 

[Bluesman1952]

Joe,
The trees are all behind the dish - no issue, and I don't care if he has to get in the attic to work on splitters, just as long as I get away with the 2 existing cables. Thanks - I will update you all after he gets here. PS - I also have Hughesnet satellite right next to DTV (about 10 feet to the left) and that dish is huge and I get great views of the Sounthern sky...so I might be OK.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Joe,
The trees are all behind the dish - no issue, and I don't care if he has to get in the attic to work on splitters, just as long as I get away with the 2 existing cables. Thanks - I will update you all after he gets here. PS - I also have Hughesnet satellite right next to DTV (about 10 feet to the left) and that dish is huge and I get great views of the Sounthern sky...so I might be OK.

Then you should be good to go. The fact that your two TV locations had Directv running at one time clarifies much. The older SD round dish has two lines running from them and each one probably served one of your TV locations. What will probably happen is the tech will use one underground line to connect the new dish to a DirecTV approved splitter (and power inserter) in the attic or elsewhere. The SWM (Single Wire Multiswitch) makes DirecTV installations more like what you may have seen with cable.

One issue that may come up = the new dishes use a 2" pole. The older poles are smaller. I don't know whether Directv techs use or have pole adapters that allow mounting the larger dish on the small poles....so the tech may want to install a new pole. IF the existing pole is pretty firmly installed you can clamp a new pole to the existing one rather than dig a new hole etc.

IF the tech decides to kick in more cable......there is a possibility he will find your HughesNet cable with his shovel. Try to find where that cable enters the building. Also your telco line may be shallow near the building so add these to the list of things to observe and test during the installation.

Report how it goes,

Joe