Hi All I am new and need FTA Help

[FTA4PA]

Hi again sapote. Yes, it is sometimes easier to have a small tv and your receiver at the dish while making adjustments. It appears something is just a bit off somewhere. If everything is installed properly you should not need to move the dish manually once USALS takes it to a satellite positon. Here are a few things to check to narrow down where the problem is:

• Is your pole plumb - very important with motorized setup?
• With motor at zero position, are motor/dish aligned? (Imagine a line from the back center of the motor to the tip of the lnb arm)
• When you attached motor/dish to mast did you point it due south?
• Are motor and dish elevation correct?
• Is latitude and longitude for USALS entered correctly?

 

[sapote]

system: Amiko mini HD receiver, STAB HH-90 motor, GEOSATpro 90 cm / 36 inch Satellite Dish and Free GEOSATpro SL1 - Bullet 0.4 Linear HD LNBF (standard lnb with both H and V polarization). Motor mounted on plumped mast.
1) how to scan all FTA channels at each sat without those $channels?
2) whenever I commanded the motor to move to my local reference in USALS, it popped up a window "moving dish, STOP"? Do I need to wait until it's done the move and the STOP message disappeared, or I need to select STOP to finish the process?
3) When changing tv channels, some time it says "moving dish..." and the process takes a long time, many minutes even after I don't hear the motor is moving any more. Why the moving dish... took so long? is it because I have weak signal?
4) Should I trust the HH90 motor latitude angle scale or should I measure at the crank angle arm? I found that when I set the motor latitude using the crank arm measurement, then the motor scale was off by 1* larger (it was at 35 instead of 34 for example).

Regards,
Brian

 

[GI_Joe]

One helpful hint that I found was to move the dish to the ground (temporary) while getting used to the alignment process - especially with a motor. Then once you feel comfortable with that, move it back up to the roof... It worked for me

 

[KE4EST]

Yes you may want to take a TV and receiver with an extension cord to the dish so you can use the receiver to help get you going. If you want to make sure the dish stops moving without disconnecting the coax from the receiver. Motor it over to 97W and then go in the menu and turn USALS off for that satellite temporarily. That channel master meter can be tough to use for a beginner, cause it will show anything that produces RF.

 

[FTA4PA]

system: Amiko mini HD receiver, STAB HH-90 motor, GEOSATpro 90 cm / 36 inch Satellite Dish and Free GEOSATpro SL1 - Bullet 0.4 Linear HD LNBF (standard lnb with both H and V polarization). Motor mounted on plumped mast.
1) how to scan all FTA channels at each sat without those $channels?
2) whenever I commanded the motor to move to my local reference in USALS, it popped up a window "moving dish, STOP"? Do I need to wait until it's done the move and the STOP message disappeared, or I need to select STOP to finish the process?
3) When changing tv channels, some time it says "moving dish..." and the process takes a long time, many minutes even after I don't hear the motor is moving any more. Why the moving dish... took so long? is it because I have weak signal?
4) Should I trust the HH90 motor latitude angle scale or should I measure at the crank angle arm? I found that when I set the motor latitude using the crank arm measurement, then the motor scale was off by 1* larger (it was at 35 instead of 34 for example).

Regards,
Brian

• 1) Change the Scan Mode from ALL to FREE
• 2) Just tried it with mine - pressing stop before move was done didn't cause any problem. Dish went back to correct sat when I exited menu and tuned a channel
  
• 3) I have found that it will do that if the transponder it is on in the transponder list has no signal. If you know for sure the dish has stopped moving you can press the MENU button and the message will go away.
• 4) The scale is very accurate but not perfect. You may need to make fine adjustments to obtain the best signal.

 

[sapote]

Please see my answer and more questions below.


1) What is the purpose of being able to move the dish manually using move/stop (for max signal) but not able to scan and watch tv channels at this new position? Whenever I select scan, the receiver commands the dish to its programmed position.

2) Pole plumb: I had my mast plumbed on N,S,E,W using the same side (because not all leveler are perfect) of the mason leveler to have the same reading on all sides of the mast.

3) Are motor/dish aligned? Dish was mounted to motor’s crank arm with a bolt went through the arm center and clamped outside, and so this for sure aligned since nothing I can do more.

4) I used dishpointer web site and found a good landmark as true south for me (118.2W Long). I eye balled the dish to that landmark. I must had done not too bad because I was able to motor the dish to 97W sat and received good signal on vertical pola (90% signal 75% quality), but nothing or very weak on Hori pola.

5) Motor/dish elecation? My lat=34.2, long=118.29w, declination=5.5. The near true south sat is 118W with elevation=50.3, motor crank angle=45.

As someone said motor’s latitude scale was notorious for error, I use the crank arm instead of the scale. So instead of setting the motor shaft to 34.2 down from horizontal, I set the crank arm 10.8 from vertical (90 – 34.2 – 45 = 10.8). With that I checked the motor scale and it shown 35.2 instead of 34.2. Well, I didn’t know what to trust, scale or crank arm. I studied the HH-motor’s scale and made a decision that the made scale seemed more reliable than the crank on motor shaft with nut/bolt adding up tolerance. I could be wrong on this. For the dish elevation, true south needs 50.3 – 5.5(decination) without motor. With motor I set to 50.3 – 5.5 – 10.8 = 34 on the dish scale.

6) My local lat and long were entered in USALS

Brian

 

[FTA4PA]

Please see my answer and more questions below.


1) What is the purpose of being able to move the dish manually using move/stop (for max signal) but not able to scan and watch tv channels at this new position? Whenever I select scan, the receiver commands the dish to its programmed position.

2) Pole plumb: I had my mast plumbed on N,S,E,W using the same side (because not all leveler are perfect) of the mason leveler to have the same reading on all sides of the mast.

3) Are motor/dish aligned? Dish was mounted to motor’s crank arm with a bolt went through the arm center and clamped outside, and so this for sure aligned since nothing I can do more.

4) I used dishpointer web site and found a good landmark as true south for me (118.2W Long). I eye balled the dish to that landmark. I must had done not too bad because I was able to motor the dish to 97W sat and received good signal on vertical pola (90% signal 75% quality), but nothing or very weak on Hori pola.

5) Motor/dish elecation? My lat=34.2, long=118.29w, declination=5.5. The near true south sat is 118W with elevation=50.3, motor crank angle=45.

As someone said motor’s latitude scale was notorious for error, I use the crank arm instead of the scale. So instead of setting the motor shaft to 34.2 down from horizontal, I set the crank arm 10.8 from vertical (90 – 34.2 – 45 = 10.8). With that I checked the motor scale and it shown 35.2 instead of 34.2. Well, I didn’t know what to trust, scale or crank arm. I studied the HH-motor’s scale and made a decision that the made scale seemed more reliable than the crank on motor shaft with nut/bolt adding up tolerance. I could be wrong on this. For the dish elevation, true south needs 50.3 – 5.5(decination) without motor. With motor I set to 50.3 – 5.5 – 10.8 = 34 on the dish scale.

6) My local lat and long were entered in USALS

Brian

1) I've never had to use the Step Move command to adjust the dish for USALS - Guess I hit right on the true south when I mounted the motor. I do use it for fine adjustment on my c band dish which uses Diseqc 1.2 positioning and you can save it. Several people have suggested a minor adjustment (.1 steps) in the setting of your location that you input for USALS to correct for minor alignment issues.
2) If you plumbed the pole on all sides then this should not be an issue.
3) Yes, if it mounts that way you should be good with that.(On my HH100 I had to manually make sure everything was aligned)
4) Sounds like you are very close, if not right on alignment. Since you are getting vertical but not horizontal. Check the polarity setting in the menu for your ku satellites. Make sure it is set to Auto (not vertical or horizontal). Also, make sure you are not skewing your lnb - the motor will do it for you.
5) You should also be very close with this if you motored to 97W and were able to scan vertical channels.
6) If you entered the figures you posted in 5 above you are good with that.

You appear to be very close with everything. Check the things mentioned in 4. If this doesn't resolve it then you may need to make a MINOR adjustment in elevation or azimuth. If you do this, make sure you mark position of the dish elevation and motor azimuth with a pencil/marker so you can return them to that position if things don't improve.

 

[sapote]

For the lnb, I aligned it to zero degree with the holder, meaning no screw? I also adjust the lnb axially for max signal gain. I believe I set the lnb in USALS to be auto, not vert or horizontal, standard and not universal or unicable.


So you did use the manual stop/move to align the dish for C band, but you forgot to help answering my question: how do I keep the dish at this manually pointed location when scan the sat? whenever I started the scan, the dish was moved to the old position? Also when I wanted to exit the USALS to watch the channels after manually pointed the dish, the dish was moved by the receiver.

 

[FTA4PA]

If lnb is aligned with no skew then you are good with that. If USALS is Auto and LNB is standard they are good. What is first frequency set to in LNB settings? As far as the step move, I never need to use it for ku, only c band using Diseqc 1.2 positioning. If the dish is aligned exactly where it needs to be the motor should point at the sat with USALS with no manual adjustment needed. Try pressing the MENU button - that may save your changes but it appears the dish elevation or azimuth will need a minor adjustment to track correctly.

 

[KE4EST]

See if this thread helps:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/how-to-set-up-a-motorized-ku-band-dish.190527/

 

[sapote]

Michael, I believe I had read it before I even bought my first system, but I am sure to review and fully understand it since now I have the hardware to test.

FTA4PA, "What is first frequency set to in LNB settings?" great question. I saw those frequencies but didn't know what they meant. Local oscillator to dial in the lnb? it's set automatically by receiver or I need to set them, and what values?
As about manual step move, as soon as I hit the MENU to get out the motor was moved by the receiver. Therefore I have no idea what is the purpose of step move except helping me to know how far off the sat is by looking at the signal bars during stepping.

 

[FTA4PA]

FTA4PA, "What is first frequency set to in LNB settings?" great question. I saw those frequencies but didn't know what they meant. Local oscillator to dial in the lnb? it's set automatically by receiver or I need to set them, and what values?
As about manual step move, as soon as I hit the MENU to get out the motor was moved by the receiver. Therefore I have no idea what is the purpose of step move except helping me to know how far off the sat is by looking at the signal bars during stepping.

The S1PLL is standard and I believe it should be set to 10750. It should say on your lnb or the specs on the box. The idea behind USALS is that you don't need to make adjustments if everything is exactly aligned where it should be. It is calculated and automatic. However, the step move can still be useful to you in making the minor adjustment to your dish. As you said, it could give you an idea how far off you are. If you need to bump the dish west to improve signal then try a minor azimuth adjustment to the west. If instead east improves it, try a minor adjustment to the east. Don't forget to mark post before any changes so you can return there if needed.

 

[sapote]

For setting lnb type, I selected standard and changed first frequency to 10750 and clicked OK to save and get out the menu, but when went in to check, it defaulted back to 5150. I repeat couple more and got same result with 5150. Finally instead of Ok, I clicked menu and it saved 10750. I did single scan and the result was no difference than with 5150. I get good signal on Pentagon, and couple more channels, but nothing on 11966H22000, 12060H22000, not even 1 percent on signal. When I hand moved the dish to dial in, no improvement on those channels. Why?

 

[FTA4PA]

For setting lnb type, I selected standard and changed first frequency to 10750 and clicked OK to save and get out the menu, but when went in to check, it defaulted back to 5150. I repeat couple more and got same result with 5150. Finally instead of Ok, I clicked menu and it saved 10750. I did single scan and the result was no difference than with 5150. I get good signal on Pentagon, and couple more channels, but nothing on 11966H22000, 12060H22000, not even 1 percent on signal. When I hand moved the dish to dial in, no improvement on those channels. Why?

Good news is you must be close to the arc if your able to scan channels. When you scanned in Pentagon which satellite does it appear under? What other channels scanned in and under which satellite?

 

[Titanium]

You are aimed at the wrong satellite and the motor/dish is not aligned properly. Pentagon channel is not on Galaxy 19.

On 97w satellite, TP 12152 selected and USALS activated, you then need to rotate the motor on the post and adjust the dish elevation until the signal quality reading is peaked. Now blind scan the satellite. Do not manually drive the motor East/West when using USALS.

 

[sapote]

I had looked to find the TP 12152H in the TP index but I could not find it. Did I miss it in the list or perhaps what I had done somehow caused it not to be included in the list? I will double check when I get home again.
If Pentagon channels are not on galaxy 19 Ku, then there is much room for improvement which is good news. So the DoD News is on Galaxy 16, 99W, 3900V. When I watched this channel it shown 97w galaxy19 and I don't remember the frequency; I must had missed the 97w badly. This dish-pointing is not an easy thing to do because so many sat every where. I need to find an isolated sat to tune in based on the signal meter. I think the Channel Master is good in this case -- it responses faster than the STB receiver. the slow response of the receiver signal bar makes hand move searching a real pain.

 

[sapote]

My bad, Galaxy 16 99w, 3900V is a C band, so I must had received it from SES1 101w, 11820H. Why the receiver shown the channel on Galaxy 19 97W?

1) why changing the LNB standard first frequency (why first frequency but not local oscillator?)) from 5150 to 10750, did not show any difference on the channels I got when run a scan? does the receiver need to know this Lo, since I thought it can base on the selected sat and TP, the receiver then knows what Lo to select. No?

 

[FTA4PA]

Yes, receiver needs proper lo frequency setting to scan channels correctly. If wrong, it will still scan but will miss things. The thing about scanning is that receiver can't actually tell what satellite it's pointed at. So, if you aim the dish and think you are pointed at 97W but are actually pointed at 101W, it will happily scan in the channels on the 101W satellite and they will appear under 97W. It can be very frustrating when first starting out but your almost there. You just need to make a few dish adjustments and you will get it. Select a satellite, 97W is good. Now select a known good transponder on that satellite. As Titanium said, on 97W 12052 is good. If it's not in your list for 97W, you can add it by selecting yellow button for TP edit, the green button for Add. Enter 12052 for frequency, 22000 for Symbol Rate and Vertical for Polarity. Before adjusting anything, mark your starting point so you don't lose it (where the motor is on the mast and the dish elevation). Loosen the motor bracket just enough to be able to rotate it on the pole to adjust the azimuth and only adjust it a little at a time until you get the strongest signal. You will also need to adjust dish elevation (not motor elevation) to peak signal. Tighten everything gently and do a blind scan. Hopefully you are on 97W at that point (you will be able to tell when the channels you just scanned in match those in the list for 97W on lyngsat.com). If you find you are on the wrong sat, compare the channels you did get to nearby sats on lyngsat and you will see whether you need to go east or west. Keep adjusting until you are definitely on 97W and have the signal at maximum. Then tighten everything down good and you should be set.

 

[sapote]

tomorrow at my long and lat location, at 12:41pm the sun will be at true south. I could run a vertical string across the front of the dish and its shadow must be center on the dish at this moment.

http://pveducation.org/pvcdrom/properties-of-sunlight/sun-position-calculator

Brian

 

[sapote]

Did anyone find that after changing the LNB standard first frequency and then clicked OK to save and exit that window, it failed to save? I clicked the MENU and it seemed to save fine. This seems to be a bug for me.