Installing my first motorized C Band Satellite Dish (w/pictures)

[RamboHack]

Hi guys! i made some progress today.

I finally were able to track the whole arc symmetrically, and by the whole arc, i mean from 37.5 all the way up to 135 west.

The last time i was at the roof, i made a huge mistake. when i was at the lowest west satellite (135w), and i push down the dish a little bit and the signal improved, i turned the pole to the west... big mistake! i should have turn the pole EST!... lowering the dish at west rotate to the est. And lowering the dish at the east side, rotate to the west.

Now, i finally tweak a little bit my satellital arc by doing that.

But i one question:

In the "C Band Installation Manual" says :

9.2 : Tracking the Top of the Arc: Azimuth Adjustments Only

1. Point your dish at the most extreme western satellite you can track and gently raise/lower the bottom lip of the dish.
If lowering the lip improves the signals, slightly rotate the mount to the east

Thats fine, i already did that, and i can get the whole arc.... it also says, fine tune the LNB.... i already did that too.

But now in the next step says:

9.3 : Tracking the Bottom of the Arc: Declination Offset Adjustments Only


To fine tune the Declination Offset angle, do the following:

9.3.1. Point your dish at the most extreme eastern/western satellite you can track and gently raise/lower the bottom lip of the dish. If lowering the lip improves the signal, add declination offset


I already did that! i was satellite by satellite 125,131,135 and in each sat i lower the dish a bit, and if the signal improves, i rotate the pole to the east.

Why? the step number 9.3 ask me to do THE SAME thing i already did... and what should i do? lets supose, i lower my dish at 135w and the signal improves... rotate the pole to east again? or add declination offset? which one should i chose? step 9.2 or step 9.3?

I want to fine tune my dish the most i can, but Its confusing.

 

[Brct203]

At first, my expectations were something around 55-58 all the way til 135w, but now it seems i can get from 34.5w to 135w, and i stll have like 10 inches left (at the east side) till my dish bump with the floor, so my guess is I can still get 2 or maybe 3 more satellites down from 34.5w maybe 31.5, 27.5 and 24.5W but i think there is nothing interesting in those satellites, but who knows, i'll check them later.

As of right now im getting Intelsat @ 34.5w all the way up to AMC 10 @135w without performing the "fine tuning" yet.

if you can go a little bit further East, Hispasat at 30W in Ku should be of interest as it has some interesting content from Spain, Argentina and Cuba. I am not seeing any TV content on 31.5W. I am getting one Brazilian channel on 27.5W (but at that point I have trees in the way).

Also on 34.5W there's some French TV in lower Ku (so only if you have a universal Ku LNB)

 

[beavs2112]

yes you have stumbled on some of the finer points of satellite dish tuning. How I do it is;

if you have to pull down on the dish at BOTH the east AND west ends of the arc then your dish is off in declination.(step9.3)

If your dish you have to pull down on one end then push UP on the other end of the arc then your dish is off in azimuth.(step9.2)

The key is to check the tuning at BOTH ends of the arc. As you found out by just checking one end of the arc you don't know if you are off in declination or azimuth or both.

Hope this helps.

 

[RamboHack]

yes you have stumbled on some of the finer points of satellite dish tuning. How I do it is;

if you have to pull down on the dish at BOTH the east AND west ends of the arc then your dish is off in declination.(step9.3)

If your dish you have to pull down on one end then push UP on the other end of the arc then your dish is off in azimuth.(step9.2)

The key is to check the tuning at BOTH ends of the arc. As you found out by just checking one end of the arc you don't know if you are off in declination or azimuth or both.

Hope this helps.

Excellent explanation!! beavs2112

Now it perfectly clear form me, what to do next time i fine tune my dish.

I think both ends improved signal a little bit when i pull down my dish a bit, so that means i need to adjust declination only.... and then, adjust elevation only at my azimuth satellite (if neccesarly).

Thank you very much!

RamboHack
Monterrey, Mexico

 

[RamboHack]

Hey guys, im back, i finished tuning up my dish.

Finally in can get the whole arc from 34.5 to 135w.

I also install the new actuator Shielded cable that i bought from DX Enginering, and brand new RG6 quad coaxial.

Everything is working fine, i get all the channels on every satellite i tune my dish. My main interest is getting sports feeds, and i think im getting those feeds very well.

Only problem i still have, is with my Titanium ASC1.

One day i program, for exapmle, my zenith satellite @99w, on position 409, then the next day i turn on my ASC1, its now at 405, and ALL the rest of the satellite i had to substrate 4 points to get them work.
Its kind of tedious, because i have to reprogram all the satellites again.

i dont thin the problem is the cable, because i was told, that cable is the BEST for this situation. I also changed the "Ground" cable that was connected to the ASC1 only, i disconnected that cable and connected only at the actuator, and the problem persists.

I read here at the forum, that my problem could be fixed by using a capacitor 0.1uf 50v

Those capacitor are very cheap at my local radioshack, but i have a question:

How should i connect the capacitor at my Venture 36" actuator?

This way: Using only ONE capacitor connected at EACH side of the motor sensors?

Or this way: Using TWO capacitors connected at each one of the motor sensor cables?

And one last question:

What kinf of capacitor should i use? ceramic or electrolytic capacitor?

Thank you very much for all your help guys

RamboHack
Monterrey, Mexico

 

[Titanium]

It is not necessary to reprogram all positions if the count is globally shifted. It is simple to perform a global resync of all satellites with one setting.

1. Determine how many counts the satellites are shifted.
2. Drive to the 0000 point and add or subtract the offset (i.e. -9996).
3. Enter the System Reset menu and select position Reset.
4. Press OK twice. One time to initiate and a second time to accept the current position as the new changed 0000 reference.



The cause of the count offset is not likely caused by motor noise. Are you able to drive the dish around the arc without any errors, but when you re-power the system, the count is off?

Do you hear the ASC1 motor power relays click when re-powering your satellite system? If so, this is likely caused by completely removing all power from the components, then the order of restoring power to the components. Your receiver likely is issuing move commands during boot and also while the ASC1 is rebooting, causing the count error. Most receivers do not initially send a "DiSEqC" string at reboot, but some send the string when LNB power is initiated.

Example: If you turn off or remove the master power from the ASC1 and the receiver, restore power to the ASC1 first, then after the ASC1 is rebooted, then restore power to the receiver. This order of powering on the components will provide satellite signal to the receiver during power-up and it will not send a move command to attempt to attempt to re-establish a signal path and interrupt the ASC1 boot sequence.

If you decide to install a capacitor, install the ceramic type on the actuator's two motor terminal screws.

P.S. I understand that this thread has been duplicated over on Rick's site. Would someone be able to share the information in this post on that thread? It might be helpful for those who are following. Thanks!

 

[mc6809e]

Brian,

I just posted a copy of your post over at Rick's.

Ernie

 

[RamboHack]

It is not necessary to reprogram all positions if the count is globally shifted. It is simple to perform a global resync of all satellites with one setting.

1. Determine how many counts the satellites are shifted.
2. Drive to the 0000 point and add or subtract the offset (i.e. -9996).
3. Enter the System Reset menu and select position Reset.
4. Press OK twice. One time to initiate and a second time to accept the current position as the new changed 0000 reference.

Ohh! thank you Titanium! didnt know about the global resync! thank you very much!

I will try your suggestions and i'll post hte results.

I will try the ceramic capacitor, in the next days. by the way, you didnt tell me how do i should connect the capacitor? unsing only one capacitor like picture 1? or 2 capacitors like picture 2?

Thanks again

 

[Titanium]

Can't really tell if those are the motor or sensor terminals by looking at the photos on my phone. If you decide to install, place a single ceramic type across the actuator's two motor leads at the terminal strip screws (maybe like photo #1 if those are the terminal screws for the motor power).

So, was the count error occurring after a power-up or during movements?

Also comment if the relays were clicking after powering-up the receiver and ASC1 at the same time.

Good luck with your testing!

 

[RamboHack]

Can't really tell if those are the motor or sensor terminals by looking at the photos on my phone. If you decide to install, place a single ceramic type across the actuator's two motor leads at the terminal strip screws (maybe like photo #1 if those are the terminal screws for the motor power).

So, was the count error occurring after a power-up or during movements?

Also comment if the relays were clicking after powering-up the receiver and ASC1 at the same time.

Good luck with your testing!

The count error is at the next day when i turn on the asc1 and the Gsk v7 reciever. During the day works prefectly fine.

And no relays clicking after powering up.

Last question, the ceramic capacitor should be connected at the SENSORS terminals right? not the motor right?

Thanks again Titanium

 

[Titanium]

To filter motor noise, a single capacitor is placed across the two motor power leads inside the actuator.

If the problem happens after powering both units up and not during operation, it is not motor noise, it is the order that the equipment is powered on.

Btw.. Most folks leave the controller and receiver on 24/7. The power draw on modern receivers and controllers is very low in operate mode. Basically, only 120mA for the LNBF and a few watts for the LEDs. My bench system has been on 24/7 for 4 years!

 

[RamboHack]

Ohhh!! my mistake, i though it should go in the s1 and s2.

The right place is in the MOTOR terminals, the M1 and M2 of the actuator, not on the ASC1.

Now its perfectly clear!

I will try the capacitor, and i'll post the results here.

Thank you very much Titanium again, and sorry for asking too many questions

RamboHack
Monterrey, Mexico

 

[Titanium]

Don't do the capacitor yet. I'm sure that it is not needed.

Try either not powering off the gear or power on the ASC1 first then after booted, power on the STB.

 

[RamboHack]

Don't do the capacitor yet. I'm sure that it is not needed.

Try either not powering off the gear or power on the ASC1 first then after booted, power on the STB.

Ok im gonna try not powering off tonite, and i'll see the results in the morning.
Lets hope this problem is as easy as not disconnecting the ASC1 during the night, just turning off using the front button.

 

[Titanium]

Brian,

I just posted a copy of your post over at Rick's.

Ernie

Ernie, Did you get a chance to post? I don't see it??? Maybe a moderator didn't appreciate the problem being solved on this forum? If so, too bad... I honestly don't understand the issues over there...

Maybe RamboHack will be allowed to share the fix for the count error. Please Rambohack, don't install the capacitor yet, unless it is proven to be needed. I am 99.9% certain that the simultaneous start-up after a complete power source disconnect is the cause.

 

[mc6809e]

Yeah, I posted it at about 10:45 PM, post #145 in that thread. Post #146 was by ke4est and also included a copy of your post. Both those posts are now gone and post #145 is Rambohack's reply to an earlier post. I don't understand why it was deleted.

Here's what I posted that has now been deleted (along with the post by ke4est). You'll notice that I did NOT include the link to www.TitaniumSatellite.com in the post:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For those following this thread, here's a reply to Rambohack posted by Titanium over at Satelliteguys:


"It is not necessary to reprogram all positions if the count is globally shifted. It is simple to perform a global resync of all satellites with one setting.

1. Determine how many counts the satellites are shifted.
2. Drive to the 0000 point and add or subtract the offset (i.e. -9996).
3. Enter the System Reset menu and select position Reset.
4. Press OK twice. One time to initiate and a second time to accept the current position as the new changed 0000 reference.



The cause of the count offset is not likely caused by motor noise. Are you able to drive the dish around the arc without any errors, but when you re-power the system, the count is off?

Do you hear the ASC1 motor power relays click when re-powering your satellite system? If so, this is likely caused by completely removing all power from the components, then the order of restoring power to the components. Your receiver likely is issuing move commands during boot and also while the ASC1 is rebooting, causing the count error. Most receivers do not initially send a "DiSEqC" string at reboot, but some send the string when LNB power is initiated.

Example: If you turn off or remove the master power from the ASC1 and the receiver, restore power to the ASC1 first, then after the ASC1 is rebooted, then restore power to the receiver. This order of powering on the components will provide satellite signal to the receiver during power-up and it will not send a move command to attempt to attempt to re-establish a signal path and interrupt the ASC1 boot sequence.

If you decide to install a capacitor, install the ceramic type on the actuator's two motor terminal screws.

P.S. I understand that this thread has been duplicated over on Rick's site. Would someone be able to share the information in this post on that thread? It might be helpful for those who are following. Thanks!


Last edited: 5 minutes ago
Titanium
Brian Gohl - AI6US"


Ernie

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[Titanium]

Very odd that a moderator would delete info that would help other forum members. Especially since Hockeynut just posted that he had experienced a similar problem and he thought it was related to the sensor. Strange indeed... Probably because my name was in the post...

Thank you guys for trying to help fellow hobbyists! Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[N6BY]

Very odd that a moderator would delete info that would help other forum members. Especially since Hockeynut just posted that he had experienced a similar problem and he thought it was related to the sensor. Strange indeed... Probably because my name was in the post...

Thank you guys for trying to help fellow hobbyists! Happy Thanksgiving!

My guess is that he deleted the posts because he sells VBox-II dish movers and doesn't want it to be a 'help forum' for another brand, especially directly from the product's creator. While it may not serve the public's best interest, I think its a reasonable business decision.

 

[a33]

So, maybe RamboHack can report there how he solved the problem (hopefully), on advise of the developer of the asc1, on 'another' (this) forum?

BTW,
Re:

I think its a reasonable business decision.

Do you think so? I myself don't usually like to be a customer at a company that would rather 'sell' their own stuff, than 'help' me with my problems.
A total banning of some posts seems a bit radical to me.

greetz,
A33

 

[Titanium]

My guess is that he deleted the posts because he sells VBox-II dish movers and doesn't want it to be a 'help forum' for another brand, especially directly from the product's creator. While it may not serve the public's best interest, I think its a reasonable business decision.

I would agree with your suggestion, except.... The only thing in RamboHacks system that Rick carries is the Venture actuator. The whole thread is about installing and troubleshooting the equipment appearing in post #1.
Well enough about how Rick's forum is moderated...

RamboHack how is your system operating today? Counts accurate?