Manhattan's Future 4K Receiver Discussion

[Shicks4]

And the only 4.2.2 I'm really interested in is the cbs stuff, what he it looks like they think this new box will do but won't know until they get some test samples.

 

[Lehman bud farm]

It is not being negative about Jeff, but it is an honest discussion on what Jeff has written.

Sorry some see it differently but the answers have been all over the board.

First it was going to do 4:2:2 then it did not then it does but maybe not all the flavors everyone wanted.

You want a yes man or an honest one?

I prefer to be honest, thanks!

With that said, if there was more honest information given out without the hoopla then there would not be much to discuss just yet.

It is difficult to legally bring a desirable product to market. Many people have different preferences, and preferences was not the issue it is what is going to be in the receiver?

If it was not known then just say you don’t know.

However coming in here and saying it is not fair to be talking about what Jeff has posted is not right. I don’t see anyone being hard on Jeff they have been asking fair questions that have not been fully answered without backtracking on another day. And that is what I have seen in Jeff's posts myself.
There are others who have messaged me about it asking if we were seeing the same thing.
My posts are only here thankfully but I do not see it as badly as Mike & Brian see it.

If people can not have an open and honest discussion without being pelted for it then it is time to close up these forums!

I don’t believe in censorship or those who kiss the behinds of others!

 

[stecle]

Why is the latest Manhattan receiver (RC-1978) not on the Manhattan website?

 

[KE4EST]

Why is the latest Manhattan receiver (RC-1978) not on the Manhattan website?

Hmmm, you must be at the wrong website it is right there on the front page.
http://manhattan-digital.net/

 

[Titanium]

Lehman bud farm, no way am I saying that we need to be a yes crowd. On the other hand, we don't need to be rude. Honesty is one thing, but some of the posts have taken it to a different level. Been in his shoes before and it feels pretty crappy to be on the bottom of a multi-forum dogpile...

I agree with you on most of your points! There has been quite a bit of false starts, and communication issues surrounding the 4k STB development. Frankly, I also have been scratching my head at some of the information and specs. Bottom line... it is only a project In development and not a real box yet. Time will tell what it can or cannot do.

 

[KE4EST]

Lehman,no one said damn you Lehman!
I think you misunderstand. We want honesty and for sure not yes men, this sets us apart from the others.
What also set sets us apart is the over all tone and aura of this board. The way this thread was going, the tone was getting out there.
Criticism is okay and can be done without things going below the belt.
Again, this is not pointed at one person.

 

[Shicks4]

So can anyone answer why 4.2.2 is such a problem to get into a receiver? Ive asked a few times and never gotten an answer. Is it hardware limitations, software, licencing, Chinese manufacturers refusal, some combination of all of the above? seems to me like all the folks that have stuff up there have to do is change to 4.2.2 and that would limit reception to what few boxes still out there that work and some pc cards that would be able to receive them.

 

[mikekohl]

There are no doubt a few of you that own a working Manhattan RS-1933 (first released in 2011). For those of you that are among the lucky few, there was a little documented ability
(although I did write it up in the Tips section of the Manhattan website) to use this receiver for acquiring 4:2:2 broadcasts. Find one in progress and scan the channel. Video will not be seen, but audio should be. Connect an external hard drive to the USB output and press Record in the DVR function with the remote control. Make the recording, remove the external drive (or memory stick), and plug that into a home computer or any other device with the free VLC program installed. 4:2:2 video should instantly appear in its full glory. Funny how it works with a regular computer and a free common program for A/V media playback. But those were among the limitations of earlier microprocessors in Ali and other systems. Not to mention the need for a royalty license agreement to use 4:2:2 in a receiver that is specifically designed to receive such. Feel free to enjoy this work-around if you want to test variables between CBS, ESPN and other 4:2:2 sources, on a limited budget.

Mike

 

[N6BY]

So can anyone answer why 4.2.2 is such a problem to get into a receiver? Ive asked a few times and never gotten an answer. Is it hardware limitations, software, licencing, Chinese manufacturers refusal, some combination of all of the above? seems to me like all the folks that have stuff up there have to do is change to 4.2.2 and that would limit reception to what few boxes still out there that work and some pc cards that would be able to receive them.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Chinese manufacturers have existing satellite 4.2.2 broadcasts to use for development and testing. However, I suppose they could use a .ts stream recorded here in North America for this purpose.

The other factor is that with such a limited number of broadcasters using 4.2.2, it may not be cost effective for them to implement.

 

[stecle]

Hmmm, you must be at the wrong website it is right there on the front page.
http://manhattan-digital.net/

Got it now. Must be a cookie problem with my PC.

Thanks KE4EST!

 

[Shicks4]

There are no doubt a few of you that own a working Manhattan RS-1933 (first released in 2011). For those of you that are among the lucky few, there was a little documented ability
(although I did write it up in the Tips section of the Manhattan website) to use this receiver for acquiring 4:2:2 broadcasts. Find one in progress and scan the channel. Video will not be seen, but audio should be. Connect an external hard drive to the USB output and press Record in the DVR function with the remote control. Make the recording, remove the external drive (or memory stick), and plug that into a home computer or any other device with the free VLC program installed. 4:2:2 video should instantly appear in its full glory. Funny how it works with a regular computer and a free common program for A/V media playback. But those were among the limitations of earlier microprocessors in Ali and other systems. Not to mention the need for a royalty license agreement to use 4:2:2 in a receiver that is specifically designed to receive such. Feel free to enjoy this work-around if you want to test variables between CBS, ESPN and other 4:2:2 sources, on a limited budget.

Mike

Thanks for the info, I always wandered why very few receivers seemed to have the ability to view 4.2.2 and your answer sheds light on why more receivers dont. I have read that it might be possible to record a 4.2.2 program and then view it on a STB with kodi, but never really messed with kodi though i do have a wetek play 2 that i could ply around with when i have more time. Its just doesnt seem real easy to use as a satellite receiver. Hopefully as it sounds like this new receiver will have kodi it will be able to at least view 4.2.2 recordings thru kodi. I have also read there is something you can install in kodi to use as your tuner, but at least on the wetek play 2 you have to install or boot from an sd card a different OS then the factory one to use this function.

 

[Lehman bud farm]

I agree with you on most of your points! There has been quite a bit of false starts, and communication issues surrounding the 4k STB development. Frankly, I also have been scratching my head at some of the information and specs. Bottom line... it is only a project In development and not a real box yet.

Brian the communication issue is what I hear most people talking about.
It is not about tearing down an individual, but the written statements do not jive.
I have heard from some who said they were told by Jeff in emails that the box was being tested by a few people and that it would get certain channels. However no one has ever claimed they have seen the receiver nor been testing it. The other statements that came directly from Jeff have been contradictory at times.
So naturally people are going to pick up on this.
I do not see people going over the line and being unfair towards Jeff.
I see them holding him to the fire and continuing to ask him more questions and those are getting more detailed.

While we may differ on if this is just in development or a receiver already made I have made the statement of asking, is this vaporware? due to the conflicting statements issued directly by the person who is supposed to be responsible for bringing the receiver to market.

To see someone come in here and say people are being "extremely negative towards Jeff" is not true nor fair.
I have not seen people come in here and attack Jeff or be negative towards him, but they are talking about a 4k receiver and reporting what is being written on other forums by Jeff.
That is not mudslinging nor is it tearing down any individual. I have seen it as trying to get to the facts about the receiver itself.
Sad that some see it as going against a person and distracting from what it was truly about and that is a piece of equipment that was being discussed.

Everybody wants a box that does what THEY want. One guy all he wants is a box that does 4:2:2(not sure what it is, but damn it, he wants it). Next, says don't do 4:2:2, it is going away so you are wasting you time, but can you put a dish mover in the box? Third, wants just a plain box, as long as it works and decodes 4K. Forth guy hates android and wants something else, 5th guy, 6th guy. etc. Do you get the picture.

People do this all the time and quite frankly unless there is something many people want it gets dismissed anyway. I have not taken those asking for more and more into part of this. Sure that would wear on anyone but it is not personal IMO.

To have someone who is involved in this project come in here and say that those posting about this receiver is not productive and taking things out of context just says to me that maybe I should reconsider any support of those (including what they bring to market), who think their customer base is nothing more than unproductive individuals!

 

[Shicks4]

So i started looking around at h264 information. There is talk about using tvheadend in KODI as the tuner for dvbs2 and possibly being able to view 4.2.2 and 4.2.2 h264. Im gonna have to try to find all the information to load LibreELEC (the OS you have to run to get tvheadend to run. Apparently wetek allows you to boot from an micro sd card) onto my wetek play 2 then tvheadend and the required plugins for 4.2.2. They claim in theory it should be able to do it because of the processor speed and the amount of ram in the wetek play 2. Not seen any information confirming this but its also not a reciver that appears to be used much as most folks seem to be using the wetek play 2 for iptv and kodi. Having said all that IF it works on the wetek play 2 and the new 4k receiver has similar specs then it would stand to reason that it SHOULD work on the new 4k receiver too. But it kinda looks like a pain to do. And I would assume also that if it is possible and on the Manhattan receiver there would be pretty detailed howtos posted after the release of the receiver. At the end of the day I know almost nothing about KODI but looks like im going to be learning pretty soon at least some of it.

 

[mr3p]

I've been trying out LibreELEC and it works well as a way to run Kodi on multiple platforms including Amlogic S905/905x devices such as your Wetek Play2 and generic KI/KII DVB-S2 boxes. I have no experience with TVH or using Kodi for DVB-S2 on these devices but from the little reading I've done it still seems bleeding edge. If you are able to get 4:2:2 feeds to work on your Play2 I would tip my hat and might even pick one up. It's quite possible the Hi3798C V200 selected by Manhattan for their receiver would do better than the Wetek Play2s (S905) although it remains an unknown. Some may disagree but IMHO a "high end" DVB receiver should not depend upon Kodi for receiving 4:2:2 feeds as they should just be supported natively in the Android/Linux app installed.

 

[Shicks4]

I've been trying out LibreELEC and it works well as a way to run Kodi on multiple platforms including Amlogic S905/905x devices such as your Wetek Play2 and generic KI/KII DVB-S2 boxes. I have no experience with TVH or using Kodi for DVB-S2 on these devices but from the little reading I've done it still seems bleeding edge. If you are able to get 4:2:2 feeds to work on your Play2 I would tip my hat and might even pick one up. It's quite possible the Hi3798C V200 selected by Manhattan for their receiver would do better than the Wetek Play2s (S905) although it remains an unknown. Some may disagree but IMHO a "high end" DVB receiver should not depend upon Kodi for receiving 4:2:2 feeds as they should just be supported natively in the Android/Linux app installed.

well i read a pretty detailed article about h264 and the royalties involved. I have no idea what the minimum order they have to make to get the box produced, nor how many they intend to have manufactured but it stated the royalty rate kicks in at 100k units and is like 6.5 million to have h264. However Kodi changes the ballgame because its user defined after you receive the product. Since the box doesnt ship with it from the factory no royalties will ever be paid. ANd from what little i have read about TVheadend it actually works better then any dvbs2 software currently available for android. But the reason there isnt much out there I can only assume is because most people dont use the wetek play 2 for a sat tuner, they use it for iptv. You are right though it seems it be bleeding edge. Im just now using it as a receiver and all i can say is it is very complicated, and i still havent figured out how to edit channel names, delete channels or if you are even able to add satellite positions. But i havent spent a large amount of time playing with it, but its a completly different animal then any other receiver i have used. But back to the topic of the 4k receiver if, and it is a big if, you can use KODI with tvheadend on it and you are able to do 4.2.2 and 4.2.2. h264 with it then it might be a pretty good receiver. Just kinda sucks to have to learn how to make it do what you want.

 

[mr3p]

If you decide to dive in and install LibreELEC on your Play 2, let us know how it goes.

 

[mr3p]

Based on todays comments on other forum, sounds like Manhattan isn't moving forward with this 4k product.

 

[Lehman bud farm]

Just saw those comments myself....smh...

I have said several times in this thread that things did not sound right.

Appears I have been correct in my assumptions all along now. so sad.

Sure hope it is not vaporware.

Sad to say any hopes of a decent 4k FTA receiver coming to market over here this year is diminishing rather quickly.

I am left wondering if this is for real or is it just vaporware ....

Now he wanted to curse so badly that even another site owner would not allow that kind of posting. ...smh....

I am all for supporting people in this hobby but things did not jive nor were they sounding right when it came to this receiver. When people questioned things a bit more the answers given in reply were not right or sounded contradictory to other statements made previously. The more that was said the more my hope diminished in ever seeing such a receiver come to fruition.
People were accused of "Criticizing" Jeff and I did not see that, I saw people asking hard questions wanting an honest answer.
I had discussed this with my better half here and we decided due to the conflicting reports we would not be able to support this receiver by the Manhattan project unless there was more openness and less conflicting things about it coming from the main person behind the project.

Sadly, it appears to be things were not working out for this receiver but in looking back over at Ricks site with all the remarks made by Jeff it not surprising things have fallen apart and drifted downhill so quickly.
It may be easier to deflect things by blaming those who were asking questions on the receiver for this but in reality that is not true, it was always up to Jeff from Manhattan as he held all the cards on this one, not anyone else posting in the forums.

 

[Shicks4]

Heres to hoping that someone releases a decent 4k stb in the near future. I admit i got pretty frustrated with the announcements of the receiver he was talking about. I decided to sit back and wait and see. Its too bad too really because even if it didnt include viewing all 4.2.2 video it still could have been an heck of a receiver. I questioned the insistence on the atsc 3.0 tuner but I wasnt the one "designing" the box. Something really musta set him off if he put up a post full of cursing on Ricks site. Oh well, here is to looking forward to the next best STB.

 

[mr3p]

Did anyone see the post which was not allowed or deleted?