Received New Software During Antenna Upgrade

[axxess]

Got a service call today for an antenna upgrade...after two other antenna's and no luck we were about to give up and went on to an unrelated problem with a diplexer in my 2nd room, The tech brought in a new STB cause it had a diplexer that you slap on the back of the box, due to reading other threads i talked him into plugging in the new box to check the software version. What do ya know it has the new version that allows me to scan for OTA Chan's!!! I am a little happier cause i can now get CBS (the wife can watch survivor) but it still wont lock onto other RF's because the signal needs to be 80-85 for the box to pick it up...frustrating because I have several Chan's that are right under the mark 70-78 that wont lock on that i have tested with my 10 yr old VCR and they are watchable channels. Looks like ill be waiting for my remap after all...If that even works. Just FYI for those of us thinking the new software would be our savior for those with great signal and just mapping issues I'm sure it will be.

Software Version V00.01.04
HAL Version 00.06.00
Middleware Version 00.01.36
Guide Version 00.19.8E

 

[DarrellP]

Bummer, I was hoping they would have incorporated a Manual channel entry with the new software. Maybe on the next round.

 

[jwaltz666]

i have tested with my 10 yr old VCR and they are watchable channels

The analog and digital channels aren't the same. Being able to view the analog doesn't mean you will be able to view the digital.

 

[Sean Mota]

Got a service call today for an antenna upgrade...after two other antenna's and no luck we were about to give up and went on to an unrelated problem with a diplexer in my 2nd room, The tech brought in a new STB cause it had a diplexer that you slap on the back of the box, due to reading other threads i talked him into plugging in the new box to check the software version. What do ya know it has the new version that allows me to scan for OTA Chan's!!! I am a little happier cause i can now get CBS (the wife can watch survivor) but it still wont lock onto other RF's because the signal needs to be 80-85 for the box to pick it up...frustrating because I have several Chan's that are right under the mark 70-78 that wont lock on that i have tested with my 10 yr old VCR and they are watchable channels. Looks like ill be waiting for my remap after all...If that even works. Just FYI for those of us thinking the new software would be our savior for those with great signal and just mapping issues I'm sure it will be.

Software Version V00.01.04
HAL Version 00.06.00
Middleware Version 00.01.36
Guide Version 00.19.8E

Axxes,

the channel mapping won't help you. If you are out of range, the stb won't lock the channel. Maybe by getting an even larger antenna or a pre-amp ( I really don't know how you have this setup) you can get it. Go to www.antennaweb.org and see how far you are from those channels and compare the range of the antenna.

 

[electr0n]

Maybe I am missing something here. Most of my OTA signal qualities run about 80, I have one that's about 70 and one about 65. They all are picked up fine now (with 5.68). In fact the picture quality exceeds what I get on most of my Voom Satellite channels. Are you saying that the new software won't allow the signal to be picked up unless the signal quality is 80-85?

If so then I think there will be some upset customers like me that are receiving all OTA channels fine, but their signal may be considered weak. If the new software prevents me from viewing something that I can receive now then we're going to have a problem. I am hoping that I won't be taking a step backward with this new release. Surely they've thought of that???

 

[rkr0923]

Amen!

 

[Sean Mota]

Maybe I am missing something here. Most of my OTA signal qualities run about 80, I have one that's about 70 and one about 65. They all are picked up fine now (with 5.68). In fact the picture quality exceeds what I get on most of my Voom Satellite channels. Are you saying that the new software won't allow the signal to be picked up unless the signal quality is 80-85?

If so then I think there will be some upset customers like me that are receiving all OTA channels fine, but their signal may be considered weak. If the new software prevents me from viewing something that I can receive now then we're going to have a problem. I am hoping that I won't be taking a step backward with this new release. Surely they've thought of that???

I agree 80 is too high of a threshold to lock in. The 6000 unit I have locks in at 60-70 but only if the signal is steady. I wonder if he could not lock onto that signal at 70 because it was not steady and jumping. If he could tweak the antenna to get a better position on that channel could he increase the strength? I am just guessing here since I do not know what type of antenna he has. Sat4me or any installer, what are your thoughts about the locking of ota channels? What is the threshold for other stbs out there?

P.S.

I believe (but I need to verify this statement) that the new OTA scanning software does not delete your current mapping but only adds to it whatever you found in the path of the antenna. As I said I need to verify this.

 

[axxess]

Maybe I am missing something here. Most of my OTA signal qualities run about 80, I have one that's about 70 and one about 65. They all are picked up fine now (with 5.68). In fact the picture quality exceeds what I get on most of my Voom Satellite channels. Are you saying that the new software won't allow the signal to be picked up unless the signal quality is 80-85?

If so then I think there will be some upset customers like me that are receiving all OTA channels fine, but their signal may be considered weak. If the new software prevents me from viewing something that I can receive now then we're going to have a problem. I am hoping that I won't be taking a step backward with this new release. Surely they've thought of that???

Yup thats the way it looks to me, If your mapped to it (its in your programming guide) I'm sure you'll be able to tune it...BUT if not the OTA scanner will not add it to your List of channels unless it is at 80 or better.
The new software/firmware also has an option to aim OTA so you can manually put in an RF and test its signal strength I have ones that sit at 79 and wont get added by the OTA scanner

 

[axxess]

Axxes,

the channel mapping won't help you. If you are out of range, the stb won't lock the channel. Maybe by getting an even larger antenna or a pre-amp ( I really don't know how you have this setup) you can get it. Go to www.antennaweb.org and see how far you are from those channels and compare the range of the antenna.

I have a channels that sit solid at 75-79 that wont lock in, the installer changed my stealth to a Winegard Sensar, we even tried a directional Winegard but unfortunately this was all before i got the new box,i would be interested to see if the directional would have helped me after the new software/firmware..he kinda talked me out of leaving the directional up there saying i would probably have to pay the difference of what VOOM wouldn't cover on that antenna and would have to pay flat out for the amplifier 129 big ones and that if an amp was used it would have to be another service call because it would need an additional cable run ( no diplexers )

BTW Sean do i post incorrectly? just wondering why my posts are always moved..

 

[axxess]

P.S.

I believe (but I need to verify this statement) that the new OTA scanning software does not delete your current mapping but only adds to it whatever you found in the path of the antenna. As I said I need to verify this.[/QUOTE]

Correct...

 

[electr0n]

Wow, I'm amazed. I thought the point of this software release was to pull in channels that weren't mapped correctly. Now I'm hearing that you can only do that if the signal quality is 80+. I think there are going to be a lot of pi$$ed off customers.

I'll probably be alright because I'm mapped correctly and I assume that it will let me keep my mapped stations that are in the 70's (and 60's).

Has anyone ever done a poll on OTA signal strength. I would like to see how many subscribers actually have all of their OTA signal qualities at least 80? I'm guessing that it's a pretty low percentage. I only live about 9 miles from my towers and am generally getting in the 80's.

Is anyone as concerned as I am about this?

 

[Sean Mota]

I have a channels that sit solid at 75-79 that wont lock in, the installer changed my stealth to a Winegard Sensar, we even tried a directional Winegard but unfortunately this was all before i got the new box,i would be interested to see if the directional would have helped me after the new software/firmware..he kinda talked me out of leaving the directional up there saying i would probably have to pay the difference of what VOOM wouldn't cover on that antenna and would have to pay flat out for the amplifier 129 big ones and that if an amp was used it would have to be another service call because it would need an additional cable run ( no diplexers ) BTW Sean do i post incorrectly? just wondering why my posts are always moved..

I like to keep all threads related to OTA local and installations in this forum.

 

[bryan27]

Did anyone bother to think that the new scanning program uses a different signal strengh scale than what we are using with 5.68 Remember that 5.06 used a different signal strength scale on the sat aiming and 50-55 was considered excellent and when 5.68 downloaded excellent was considered 92-96.

Most likely it is using a different scale. One of the stations I receive with v5.68 has a Quality of 44, Power of 59, and SNR of 22. THis station never pixelates and is consistant. I don't doubt with the new software that station will probably show up as 82

One of our stations is very weak (power is too low for most people to receive). My theory is locking and decoding is dependant on the SNR. This particular station has a Quality of 3, Power of 0, and SNR of 17. The STB decodes the bits it can (very pixelated, and audio garbled), but the point is the SNR is "high". I also believe that those stations with Quality in the teens-20, Power of 0, and SNR 0, are actually 0 across the board since teens-20 Quality occurs without an antenna at all.

Anyway I'm not going to let the scale of the new software scare me as it is probably different than the scale we are used to at present.

 

[electr0n]

Bryan, true I didn't think the new sw would have a new scale. I hope that you are right - it's all supposition now anyways. I just am one of the fortunate customers that have their OTA's mapped correctly and I guess I'm a little paranoid about something screwing that up.
No more worrying until the new sw downloads. Thanks for the input!

 

[Impatient]

OK. On 5.68, my best station of five is running an SQ of 55, Power 42, SNR 0.00. The lowest one that comes in is SQ 28, Power 5, SNR 0.00. The stations that do not come in bounce the SQ from 3-19. Playing for a month, I have found that SNR needs to register as non zero, and just above 10 to get a stable signal. 90% of the time, my SNR sits at 0.00 even though I have a good picture.

This is on an unpowered SensorII GS2000a. Since people on this board recommended running separate wires instead of a diplexer, I insisted that the antenna was installed that way. The installer did. Well, no one mentioned that the diplexer powers the amplifier in that particular antenna. So, now I need to get the separate power supply that Voom doesn't provide. I just found this a month after the install. I will see how it does after I order the amp next week. Working fine with a power of 5 makes me suspect that the separate lines does make a drastic improvement in SNR, even if the STB doesn't measure it.

:!:So, this is a caveat needs to be added to the separate wiring suggestion: If running separate wires for dish and Winegard GS2000A (grade green) antenna, get the separate power supply or you are running the equivalent of the GS1000 which is a grade yellow antenna. Voom does not provide the power supply, because they expect the diplexer to be installed.

 

[TYORK]

Got a service call today for an antenna upgrade...after two other antenna's and no luck we were about to give up and went on to an unrelated problem with a diplexer in my 2nd room, The tech brought in a new STB cause it had a diplexer that you slap on the back of the box, due to reading other threads i talked him into plugging in the new box to check the software version. What do ya know it has the new version that allows me to scan for OTA Chan's!!! I am a little happier cause i can now get CBS (the wife can watch survivor) but it still wont lock onto other RF's because the signal needs to be 80-85 for the box to pick it up...frustrating because I have several Chan's that are right under the mark 70-78 that wont lock on that i have tested with my 10 yr old VCR and they are watchable channels. Looks like ill be waiting for my remap after all...If that even works. Just FYI for those of us thinking the new software would be our savior for those with great signal and just mapping issues I'm sure it will be.

Software Version V00.01.04
HAL Version 00.06.00
Middleware Version 00.01.36
Guide Version 00.19.8E

not sure how far you are from the tower but if you are aimed right you should get a lot higher signal than that i have been finding out that if you aim the antenna right the signal has been coming in between 92-99 and i had one the other day that had a 101 signal and i was 34 miles away from the towers by the way with the 6.00 software there is no need to remap if it there it will scan if your antenna if in the right direction.

 

[axxess]

Did anyone bother to think that the new scanning program uses a different signal strengh scale than what we are using with 5.68 Remember that 5.06 used a different signal strength scale on the sat aiming and 50-55 was considered excellent and when 5.68 downloaded excellent was considered 92-96.

Most likely it is using a different scale. One of the stations I receive with v5.68 has a Quality of 44, Power of 59, and SNR of 22. THis station never pixelates and is consistant. I don't doubt with the new software that station will probably show up as 82

One of our stations is very weak (power is too low for most people to receive). My theory is locking and decoding is dependant on the SNR. This particular station has a Quality of 3, Power of 0, and SNR of 17. The STB decodes the bits it can (very pixelated, and audio garbled), but the point is the SNR is "high". I also believe that those stations with Quality in the teens-20, Power of 0, and SNR 0, are actually 0 across the board since teens-20 Quality occurs without an antenna at all.

Anyway I'm not going to let the scale of the new software scare me as it is probably different than the scale we are used to at present.

I have no doubt it is a different scale the system status menu and the installer menu are now very different
Under the system status menu everything looks the same where u can look up your Off Air SQ and Off air power/snr
Under the Installer Menu it now has an installation wizard that has Aim Off-Air Antenna (option3) which allows u to test individual RF's and it just has a bar that starts at 0 and has an arrow at 80 (where it will lock it say) and another arrow at 85 (Must be at least 85 to allow for weather fade) so i have no idea if its looking at SQ/Power/SNR or a combination of them

 

[axxess]

actually after some testing it does seem to be right on target with Off-Air Signal Quality found in the System Status menu

 

[axxess]

OK. On 5.68, my best station of five is running an SQ of 55, Power 42, SNR 0.00. The lowest one that comes in is SQ 28, Power 5, SNR 0.00. The stations that do not come in bounce the SQ from 3-19. Playing for a month, I have found that SNR needs to register as non zero, and just above 10 to get a stable signal. 90% of the time, my SNR sits at 0.00 even though I have a good picture.

This is on an unpowered SensorII GS2000a. Since people on this board recommended running separate wires instead of a diplexer, I insisted that the antenna was installed that way. The installer did. Well, no one mentioned that the diplexer powers the amplifier in that particular antenna. So, now I need to get the separate power supply that Voom doesn't provide. I just found this a month after the install. I will see how it does after I order the amp next week. Working fine with a power of 5 makes me suspect that the separate lines does make a drastic improvement in SNR, even if the STB doesn't measure it.

:!:So, this is a caveat needs to be added to the separate wiring suggestion: If running separate wires for dish and Winegard GS2000A (grade green) antenna, get the separate power supply or you are running the equivalent of the GS1000 which is a grade yellow antenna. Voom does not provide the power supply, because they expect the diplexer to be installed.

I was under the assumption that SNR meant signal to noise ratio and the lower it was the better (not power). i don't think the diplexer powers the the antenna but rather is a power passive diplexer that allows you to get the power from the STB i would think that having a separate cable would always be ideal. I'm not an expert on any of this stuff however so anyone please feel free to correct me.

 

[electr0n]

Axxess - for SNR the higher the number the better. It stands for signal to noise ratio. You ideally want a large input signal with a low system noise = a large number. A smaller number indicates you are receiving a weaker signal or there is more noise coming through the box.

Hope this helps-