Setting up Wave Frontier T90

[dangrenier]

Well it looks like i don't have your patience. I've been trying for the past 2 days with the same results. I can get a very good signal from 110 (about 85%, sometimes close to 90%). Then when i check on my Bell for 91. I get just a tiny reading... something like 30%... barely enough to lock the satellite on the bell receiver. When i play with the skew, i lose it completely and lose my strong signal on 110 too. I am not even talking about 119 because as of now i have never been able to get a reading from it... even by moving the lnb on the bar in all directions. This is very frustrating.

 

[jerryt]

Well it looks like i don't have your patience. I've been trying for the past 2 days with the same results. I can get a very good signal from 110 (about 85%, sometimes close to 90%). Then when i check on my Bell for 91. I get just a tiny reading... something like 30%... barely enough to lock the satellite on the bell receiver. When i play with the skew, i lose it completely and lose my strong signal on 110 too. I am not even talking about 119 because as of now i have never been able to get a reading from it... even by moving the lnb on the bar in all directions. This is very frustrating.

You got a cheap satellite signal meter didn't you? Cause it will take forever to setup with a receiver.

Even the cheap satellite meter will give you very low signal strengths when compared with a standard dish, but the receiver will still see these low signal strengths as 80s and 90s.

The good news is that once you have setup a toroidal, second time is easy. You can do it. if you got 110 and 91, then you are very close. Get 110 again without skew and then skew a small amount and note where 110 moves. My experience was it just moved a few degrees from center.

When the dish is properly set up a cheap signal meter will show satellite signal strength all along the LNB rail. Only changing signal level as you move the meter along the rail.

The screw which holds the LNB holder to the rail should face back, away from the sub reflector. That can cause someone a problem.

I have re centered my dish a number of times, plus moved twice. stick with finding the center circular (no skew) and then two outer most circulars with skew. relocate the center and then fine tune with the linears.

Adjustments;
Azimuth = a few degrees does not matter, only changes location of center LNB.

Elevation = 1/2 to one turn of the large elevation nut(s), very fine adjustment, effects the outer most LNBs the most.

Skew = You have a window of 1 & 1/2 to two degrees, in which one or both outer most LNBs will work.

Never has one of my installs agreed with Wave Frontier or Satlex data, close yes but not exact.

 

[dangrenier]

Thank you... you are giving me hope. I did get a signal meter but sometimes it beeps and im not even locked on a bird. However i will try your method of getting the center lnb (in my case 110) and then move from there.

 

[dangrenier]

Ok let me get this straight so i can rush home tonight and try it before the sun sets.

Basically i should start from scratch... Set the Azimuth first and then set elevation without skew. Put a LNB at 0 and then find 110.

Once i find 110 with a pretty strong signal, i should skew the dish a tiny bit (i'd like to know what's a tiny bit... 20 degrees? , 40 degrees?.... My skew according to WaveFrontier should be around 66...)

Then you want me to see if i can get readings out of 119 and 91 and fine tune those with the skew and by sliding them off the arc.

Then when those two are pretty much in shape, you want me to come back to 110 and find it's new location because being in the center it will still have a pretty strong signal but might just be elsewhere.

Now i guess what i need to know is... when fine tuning 91 and 119... what combination shoulf i use? Skew, elevation , position on the rail? will i have to throw in azimuth changes? or just skew? I think that is where i am screwing up... Once i got my 110 and trying to fine tune 91 and 119 i always end up making a bad move and then i lose 110 too.

 

[jerryt]

Ok let me get this straight so i can rush home tonight and try it before the sun sets.

Basically i should start from scratch... Set the Azimuth first and then set elevation without skew. Put a LNB at 0 and then find 110.

Once i find 110 with a pretty strong signal, i should skew the dish a tiny bit (i'd like to know what's a tiny bit... 20 degrees? , 40 degrees?.... My skew according to WaveFrontier should be around 66...).

Five degrees at a time and follow the movement of 110. See if dish elevation changes for 110 with skew? I only remember having to change the center LNBs position. You will need 110 solid with the dish skewed then find 91 and 119? 129 would be a better choice for the most outer circular.

Then you want me to see if i can get readings out of 119 and 91 and fine tune those with the skew and by sliding them off the arc.

Then when those two are pretty much in shape, you want me to come back to 110 and find it's new location because being in the center it will still have a pretty strong signal but might just be elsewhere..

Get 110 with skew first, You are correct it should be strong and close to 0 (+ or - 2). You are not sliding 119 and 91 off the rail, they should be -9 and +19 on the rail. Are you skewing the dish in the correct direction? Skew should be clockwise from the back of the dish.

Now i guess what i need to know is... when fine tuning 91 and 119... what combination shoulf i use? Skew, elevation , position on the rail? will i have to throw in azimuth changes? or just skew? I think that is where i am screwing up... Once i got my 110 and trying to fine tune 91 and 119 i always end up making a bad move and then i lose 110 too.

Fine tune outer LNBs mostly with skew. All LNBs with elevation. Azimuth changes are only for re centering the dish, IE 110 is not in the center and that is where you want it. In that case you have to change azimuth.

 

[dangrenier]

Ok! Started from scratch but the weird thing is... I could not get 110 only with azimuth and elevation with the LNB at position 0. I had a signal but it wasn't 110 because it wasn't showing the sat on my dish receiver. However my sat finder was beeping like crazy... beeping so much i could not even turn it off... i turned the dial all the way down and it was still beeping... So i couldn't even start from there.... I was able to work my way in getting a very good signal for 110... The skew is somewhere between 65 and 70. Elevation somewhere around 50. I had to move the lnb to about 6. Then i tried to get 91... Once again i could lock the dish but with about only 25 to 30% on the scale. Changed the skew a bit... and could get all the way up to about 40%.... By the way, my sat finder was actually interfering with the signal quality because as soon as i took it off the signal went from 25 to 40 on 91. Tried to adjust the skew again.... lost it... came back to where it was.... then tried to slide the lnb to get something better... no show.... So all in all... back to square 1 again... didn't have time to try 119. I might just be stupid or just plain unlucky. I'm about to install my 2 small dish again, put them on my roof and use those like before... the only sad thing is i would have lost about 200$ in the process...

 

[jerryt]

When you have 110 and 91, mark all the adjustments with a sharpee marker and don't move far from those marks.

 

[dangrenier]

Thanks i appreciate your patience.
Last night i got a hold of 110 very good.. i'm talking over 90%.

Tried to get 91 but like i said.. it would just show a glimpse to me... around 40%. It seemed like when i was lowering the skew, i would get a better reading. that's when it reached 40%.. but i could not get more than that and by doing so... my 110 was back in the 70's.

One thing i forgot to ask... Is it unrealistic to try and get 85 to 90% strength on all 3 birds? Should i be happy with 75? I am affraid that 75 will actually be a bit weak when we have strong rain or thunderstorms.... at least we don't have snow

Anyhow.. i decided i had enough for this week and i hooked up my dish receiver. At least i could watch some hockey on 110. I'll wait for this week end when i'll have at least 4-5 hours to dedicate to this.

I'll get my 20 inch TV outside along with my Bell receiver and i'll be able to see what i'm doing. The sat finder wasn't a big help to me. and my wife screaming the numbers from inside is not the best solution either.

 

[jerryt]

You need three strong (circular) satellites to do the coarse set up of the T90. 110 and 91 is only half what you need. How about a strong circular around 129?

Yes, adjusting 91 will lower 110. but then you retune 110.

I have a few tricks to maximize all the LNBs. The dish is set up for a certain curve, a certain portion of the satellite arc. which may or may not agree 100% with the arc you are looking at. There are ways to tweak the T90. Are you rail mounting screws facing away from the subreflector? That is the number one mistake I see from people.

Get the dish hitting three satellites over a 30 to 40 degree arc, and then we can tweak the LNBs individually.

If I understand correctly, you have made progress, you have 110 with the dish skewed.

What I think would help you a lot is to stop using receivers (Dish/Bev). borrow a veiwsat or PCI card from someone and use that with the signal meter. Everytime you local a strong signal on the rail, you need to be able to identify the satellite. How is a subcriber's receiver going to do that? Viewsat's somehow tell you what satellite they are tuning, very cool feature (poor man's birdog??).

What is your location?

 

[dangrenier]

Well on the ExpressVu receiver it says Wrong Sattelite if you're not locked on 91. You'll get a signal but it will just say it's wrong... It won't however list which satellite it is. Same thing for Dish.

Not sure what a viewsat is.... and i probably don't know anyone who's got one.

You are correct i have a strong signal of 110 with the skew. My screws were facing the subreflector, so i will change that to filp them to the back.

Wouldn't 129 be too far off? I heard it's harder to get the birds if they're close to the 40 degree maximum the T90 offers.

I can always try and go to Satlex, check out where 129 would fall on the arc and try it. But what is 129 anyway? Is it Dish? or Bev?

My Location is Georgia... Near Atlanta. I moved from Quebec and i'm still paying my Bell subscriptions through my parents. Gotta have my french tv and my Canadiens

 

[jerryt]

Well on the ExpressVu receiver it says Wrong Sattelite if you're not locked on 91. You'll get a signal but it will just say it's wrong... It won't however list which satellite it is. Same thing for Dish.

Not sure what a viewsat is.... and i probably don't know anyone who's got one.

You are correct i have a strong signal of 110 with the skew. My screws were facing the subreflector, so i will change that to filp them to the back.

Wouldn't 129 be too far off? I heard it's harder to get the birds if they're close to the 40 degree maximum the T90 offers.

I can always try and go to Satlex, check out where 129 would fall on the arc and try it. But what is 129 anyway? Is it Dish? or Bev?

My Location is Georgia... Near Atlanta. I moved from Quebec and i'm still paying my Bell subscriptions through my parents. Gotta have my french tv and my Canadiens

Viewsat is a FTA STB.

129 is Dish Circular and has a free channel D1000, "you are tuned to 129". 129 is 19 marks on the LNB rail from 110, so if 110 is at 6 then 129 would be at 25. Rail only goes to 21. so fall back to 119 at 6 + 9 = 15

Rail markings are equal to satellite degrees + or - 2, so if 119 should be at 15, you may end up locking the signal in between 13 and 17. But it wouldn't be much away from 15 99% of the time.

Another mistake you don't want to make. The LNB holder have angle lines and the install instructions tell you to put LNB at rail position 19 at the angle 19 line. That is BIG MISTAKE, and will never work. Center holder are all at Zero or straight. outboard LNB holder just face toward the center of the dish a little, adjusted for max signal strength. I have never seen a holder on the T90 angled pass 5 degrees, even at the ends of the arc. That part of the instructions must have been for the T55

Circular satellites are easy to get anywhere on the 40 arc with the T90. Linear satellites can be a real head ache near the ends of the arc.

Screws facing the subreflector makes each LNB nose down. and you will get poor signal strength on each LNBs after you tighten each screw. You might get 60 -70 then tighten the screw and get 40!!! My dish is tweaked to allow the screws to face the subreflector, because I like to be able to move the holders easily. The screws being behind the LNBs was a pain for me.

 

[dangrenier]

Ahhhh! there we go.

I was really following the settings from Wavefrontier or SatLex by the book. Rotating my LNB on the holders to R15 (for 119) and L17.7 for (91).

Last night i actually unscrew those loose and i was indeed getting a signal from 91 whether it was tilted to 15 or 5. So i guess it makes sense.

You are correct that 119 is supposed to be at 15 based on the settings that were given to me.

Moving the screws to the back won't be a big hassle for me as i mounted my T90 in my backyard on a pole that goes about 3 feet deep in the ground (with a concrete base) and that sticks out about another 3 feet out the ground. So my dish is about 4 to 5 feet high and it's really easy for me to get behind scre or unscrew anything.

Thanks again for the tips

 

[jerryt]

You are correct that 119 is supposed to be at 15 based on the settings that were given to me.

Only if 110 is at 6. All the satellite move together along the rail. So once you start locating satellites on the rail, you can be 100% sure where the next satellite should be.

 

[jerryt]

My T90 is centered on 110.

Satlex says skew should be 57, 91 at -22.8 and 129 at 16.2

But where the T90 WORKS is skew 54, 91 at -21 and 129 at 21

Note how far off Satlex's calculator is from what works.

 

[Mr Tony]

I know some of my holders are way off.

T6 (93W) is my centre one so SBS6 (74W) should be at 19...its at 21
AnikF1 & F2 (107.3 & 111.1) should be at 14 & 18...they're at 17 & 20

 

[dangrenier]

Great!
When i said 119 was at 15... that's based on what i got from them.. and they do put 110 at 6. But maybe they're off.

Anyhow i have a lot of stuff to try over the week end.

jerryt, was your 110 at 0 on their setup or did you decide to put it at 0 and work from there?

 

[jerryt]

jerryt, was your 110 at 0 on their setup or did you decide to put it at 0 and work from there?

Both, that is where I wanted it. and that is how Satlex calculator shows it. The cool part of Satlex's calculator is you can make any satellite your center by playing with the two outer satellites.

A better center for installation might be 105.

 

[dangrenier]

Yes they did put 105 as my central satellite. 91 at -17.7 110 at 5.9 119 at 15.4 Skew at 69 Elevation at 44.36 Azimuth (for central satellite) at 215 I know that on my current settings where i get 110 at about 90% the skew is between 65 and 70... so not really 69... I also know my elevation, once the skew is set is well over 50 based on my angle finder. 110 is located right between the 5 and 6 mark on the arc 91 gives me a signal anywhere between 14 and 18 but not strong i haven't tried 119 this week yet.

 

[jerryt]

elevation on the T90 is measure before skew. Don't know how you could measure it after skew.

You are on the right track. I am sure you will get it this weekend.

 

[dangrenier]

Yeah! i measured it before the skew... once the skew is done... the elevation is off by at least 10 degrees... making it over 50