They also included wording to the effect of "and any new, similar models". You can be sure that they (TiVo) consider the 622, 722, and 612 to be part of the patent case too.
Tivo hearing today?
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Others have stated that some of the older DVRs do in fact continue working as non-DVRs. Also, a co-worker's HDD died in his 522 and his still operated as a regular receiver until Dish sent him a replacement.
SAN FRANCISCO -(Dow Jones)- Shares of Tivo Inc. (TIVO) fell as far as 16% Thursday after a federal judge failed to rule in an important patent battle between Tivo and rival Dish Network Corp. (DISH).
Both sides were in court Thursday to argue whether Dish, the satellite cable provider, was in contempt of an injunction issued earlier this year after a judge found its digital video recording equipment violated two Tivo patents. There was no decision made Thursday, which means Dish can continue to distribute the digital video recorders at the heart of the patent spat.
Tivo shares were recently down 14.3% or $1.25 to $7.50. Shares of Dish were off 1.4% or 40 cents to $27.93.
Thursday's Tivo sell-off was likely fueled by investors interpreting the absence of a decision as "incrementally more favorable to Dish," Citi analyst Tony Wible said in a note to clients Thursday.
However, Wible adds the judge seemed to side with Tivo at crucial times during Thursday's arguments, and did not schedule another hearing.
"We remain confident in the outcome," a Tivo spokesman said. A Dish representative did not return a call seeking comment.
Both sides were in court Thursday to argue whether Dish, the satellite cable provider, was in contempt of an injunction issued earlier this year after a judge found its digital video recording equipment violated two Tivo patents. There was no decision made Thursday, which means Dish can continue to distribute the digital video recorders at the heart of the patent spat.
Tivo shares were recently down 14.3% or $1.25 to $7.50. Shares of Dish were off 1.4% or 40 cents to $27.93.
Thursday's Tivo sell-off was likely fueled by investors interpreting the absence of a decision as "incrementally more favorable to Dish," Citi analyst Tony Wible said in a note to clients Thursday.
However, Wible adds the judge seemed to side with Tivo at crucial times during Thursday's arguments, and did not schedule another hearing.
"We remain confident in the outcome," a Tivo spokesman said. A Dish representative did not return a call seeking comment.
I have pulled the plug out of the hard disk of a 501 and it worked fine as a satellite receiver.
Just goes to show you how clueless those reporters and analysts are. Hardly any court rulings come out on the day of hearing. A final court ruling often is 10 to twenty pages long, with a lot of arguments to resolve, opinions to state, and prior case law to cite in support of any decision. It is no easy task and can easily take a few weeks to even a few months to produce, consider that the judges always have many other cases to deal with in the meantime. Not to mention this ruling will have to address two motions, one is the injunction, the other is the damages.
The investors had bet on a quick resolution in favor of Tivo because that analyst said a quick one would be likely and would be in Tivo's favor, so today's reaction was basically saying that the bet was wrong, the stock value went back to the "pre-analyst-analysis" level.
Tivo will lose on this one, the case law is clear, the court standards are clear. DISH made a good faith effort to modify those adjudicated DVRs in order to workaround the Tivo patent, and allow those DVRs to remain in the marketplace. The court had said over and over this is not only allowed but encouraged, it promotes innovation while prevents infringement on others' innovations.
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Has anyone conducted a survey of the members of this chat group asking what ruling would they hope the court will render? In favor of E*..... or in favor of TIVO
Thats nice and all, But IF these customers wanted 311 they wouldn't have gotten a DVR.
[sarcasm on] yes, we all want our DVRs to be turned off [sarcasm off]
PS This is not a "chat group". Chat is an older internet application where you type something, and then ten other people type things, ignoring you entirely, causing your statement to scroll up to the top of the screen and disappear.
This is a Discussion Forum.
There is actually a Chat Room on this site, you have to click on the link marked "Chat Room".
I have a 508 sitting here working just like a 301 waiting on a replacement from Dish as the hard drive has failed.
Do you mean that the receiver also does not function without the so-called dvr 'functionality' ( as you stated here ), or that the dvr does not function after the receiver/sat signal has been discontinued ?
The comment he responded to stated
"...when the hard disk of a 50x DVR fails, it continues to tune satellite channels just like a 301 receiver"
so no mention of removing the satellite signal comes into play.
The court ordered the DVRs on the list to have "the DVR functions" disabled. It has two meanings:
1) Any patent lawyer will tell you "the DVR functions" stated in the order only refers to the DVR functions operated by the old infringing software, so if such DVR functions under the old software are gone, the order is obeyed. DISH did just that, they removed the DVR functions by the old software, and replaced them with the currect DVR functions under the new software. The judge will rule in favor of DISH because this is how the standards govern the current contempt decision.
2) The court order does not say DISH may not continue to use those DVRs, only the DVR functions under the old software must be removed, once that is done, the DVRS can be used any way they want, as long as they no longer infringe on the Tivo patent. So if for whatever the reason DISH decides to actually disable the DVR functions, yet not replace them with another set of DVR functions, it will be perfectly fine for them to update the software for those receivers so they continue to work as if there is no harddrives in them.
What I am saying is, even if the current DVRs may not be used at all once the hard drives are dead, because the way the current software is designed (which is not true according to the evidence provided by many users), it will still be easy to update the software so the receivers will continue to function as if they did not have hard drives.
Of course if those DVRs become non-DVRs, you can be sure you will not pay the DVR fees, and most likely DISH will offer you some kind of monthly discounts until they can replace your DVRs with the newer models, for free, so you can again use the DVR functions.
But rest assured, you will be able to continue to use your DVRs, don't listen to all those Tivo folks, they are everywhere trying to spread misinformation. Some of them are Tivo investors we already know, and you will just have to decide how much you can trust what they want to tell you.
1) Any patent lawyer will tell you "the DVR functions" stated in the order only refers to the DVR functions operated by the old infringing software, so if such DVR functions under the old software are gone, the order is obeyed. DISH did just that, they removed the DVR functions by the old software, and replaced them with the currect DVR functions under the new software. The judge will rule in favor of DISH because this is how the standards govern the current contempt decision.
2) The court order does not say DISH may not continue to use those DVRs, only the DVR functions under the old software must be removed, once that is done, the DVRS can be used any way they want, as long as they no longer infringe on the Tivo patent. So if for whatever the reason DISH decides to actually disable the DVR functions, yet not replace them with another set of DVR functions, it will be perfectly fine for them to update the software for those receivers so they continue to work as if there is no harddrives in them.
What I am saying is, even if the current DVRs may not be used at all once the hard drives are dead, because the way the current software is designed (which is not true according to the evidence provided by many users), it will still be easy to update the software so the receivers will continue to function as if they did not have hard drives.
Of course if those DVRs become non-DVRs, you can be sure you will not pay the DVR fees, and most likely DISH will offer you some kind of monthly discounts until they can replace your DVRs with the newer models, for free, so you can again use the DVR functions.
But rest assured, you will be able to continue to use your DVRs, don't listen to all those Tivo folks, they are everywhere trying to spread misinformation. Some of them are Tivo investors we already know, and you will just have to decide how much you can trust what they want to tell you.
CHAT GROUP or DISCUSSION Forum.....whatever....think that it would be interesting to see how the thoughts of those persons who either have or don't have E* DVR hardware or might not be a E* customer feel. I've seen other topics handled in a similiar way. Maybe a survey???? Yes..No vote?
A forum poll is not scientific, one person with multiple accounts can skew the vote easily.
Just in case there are those that take such forum polls too seriously
Just in case there are those that take such forum polls too seriously
I think Charlie should shut off every single DVR for an entire day, and replace the programming on all DVR's with a banner that says
TIVO MADE US!
Don't like it?
1-800-BAD-TIVO (route to Tivo corporate office)
TIVO MADE US!
Don't like it?
1-800-BAD-TIVO (route to Tivo corporate office)
If Charlie loses the fight, would that qualify for terms of all E* subs to get out of their contracts because now E* is not delivering the service that they signed up for(DVR)?
If Charlie loses the fight, would that qualify for terms of all E* subs to get out of their contracts because now E* is not delivering the service that they signed up for(DVR)?
Nope!
