Ummmm... Dishnetwork you need to see how quality HD looks

[ehren]

Wow look at these beautiful resolution and bitrate numbers from FIOS

Here are the values:

Average bitrates on some of these channels will vary by up to 20% depending on content.FiOS HD bitrates as of Dec 23.

Code:
Channel------------------Resolution---Average Bitrate ---Peak Bitrate

TNT--------------825----1920x1080------17.8----------19.4
ESPN-------------826----1280x720-------18.1 ----------20.0
ESPN2------------827----1280x720-------17.8----------20.0
NFL Network------828 ----1920x1080-------16.8----------17.0
CSN MidAtlantic---829----1920x1080-------16.6----------17.7
HD Net------------833 ----1920x1080-------17.3 ----------19.2
HD Net Movies----834----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.7
Universal----------835----1920x1080-------10.5----------?
HD Theater--------836----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.2
Wealth TV---------837----1920x1080-------13.3----------14.0
National Geo.------838----1280x720--------13.3
MHD---------------839----1920x1080-------17.0 ----------18.1
Food Network------840----1920x1080-------14.2----------15.0
HGTV-------------841----1280x720-------18.0----------18.2
Lifetime Movie-----845----1920x1080-------15.0----------18.0
Discovery---------846----1920x1080-------12.5----------15.0
HBO---------------851----1920x1080
Cinemax-----------852 ----1920x1080
Showtime----------853----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
TMC---------------854----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
Starz!--------------855----1920x1080-------11.0----------14.0

 

[sdschramm]

Wow look at these beautiful resolution and bitrate numbers from FIOS

Here are the values:

Average bitrates on some of these channels will vary by up to 20% depending on content.FiOS HD bitrates as of Dec 23.

Code:
Channel------------------Resolution---Average Bitrate ---Peak Bitrate

TNT--------------825----1920x1080------17.8----------19.4
ESPN-------------826----1280x720-------18.1 ----------20.0
ESPN2------------827----1280x720-------17.8----------20.0
NFL Network------828 ----1920x1080-------16.8----------17.0
CSN MidAtlantic---829----1920x1080-------16.6----------17.7
HD Net------------833 ----1920x1080-------17.3 ----------19.2
HD Net Movies----834----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.7
Universal----------835----1920x1080-------10.5----------?
HD Theater--------836----1920x1080-------17.2----------18.2
Wealth TV---------837----1920x1080-------13.3----------14.0
National Geo.------838----1280x720--------13.3
MHD---------------839----1920x1080-------17.0 ----------18.1
Food Network------840----1920x1080-------14.2----------15.0
HGTV-------------841----1280x720-------18.0----------18.2
Lifetime Movie-----845----1920x1080-------15.0----------18.0
Discovery---------846----1920x1080-------12.5----------15.0
HBO---------------851----1920x1080
Cinemax-----------852 ----1920x1080
Showtime----------853----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
TMC---------------854----1920x1080-------12.0----------14.5
Starz!--------------855----1920x1080-------11.0----------14.0

Ok, and what are E*'s numbers for comparison?

Also, how is verizon providing a 1080p picture? There is no way...it has to be 1080i content being upscaled giving you those numbers, as there is no way they can be proving that high of quality picture.

-Scott

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

1920 x 1080 is 1080i not p.

 

[dfergie]

Some of those rates are actually not that far from what Dish provided a little over a year or so ago on some channels...

 

[tigerfan33]

I would like to see Dish numbers also.

BTW. 1920 x 1080 is interlaced.

 

[ehren]

Some of those rates are actually not that far from what Dish provided a little over a year or so ago on some channels...

yeah maybe on the 148 satellite, and those HD channels are POOF gone!

 

[sdschramm]

Ok, sorry....maybe I'm not thinking straight. I always thought that 1920 x 1080 was "progressive"

What numbers would represent 1080p?

I know you all have your thoughts about this, but its all a big game if you think about it. Whether its 1080i or 720p you still only seeing 720 lines of picture. The only difference is with 1080i the lines just get stolen from the odd frames, and doubled in with the even frames. Either way your still only seeing 720 lines, and that is why I hate all this interlaced stuff.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Most of Dish is 1440 x 1080, but the bitrate is in MPEG4 so that would be a lot more different then what FIOS is sending out. My understanding is that FIOS is using MPEG2 still for their HD.

 

[dfergie]

I miss the 148's especially CBSHD W... but the HDNets had much better bitrates along with TNT and all were 1920 not 1440 x 1080i as they are now...

 

[jliehr]

Ok, sorry....maybe I'm not thinking straight. I always thought that 1920 x 1080 was "progressive"

What numbers would represent 1080p?

I know you all have your thoughts about this, but its all a big game if you think about it. Whether its 1080i or 720p you still only seeing 720 lines of picture. The only difference is with 1080i the lines just get stolen from the odd frames, and doubled in with the even frames. Either way your still only seeing 720 lines, and that is why I hate all this interlaced stuff.

1920 x 1080 is also 1080p. Same resolution, just one interlaces. Nobody is doing broadcast TV in 1080p at the moment.

At the moment I do not believe Verizon is doing any compression.

 

[BuddyBoy]

I've posted this many times in other forums. Movies and scripted TV shows are shot at 24fps, and 24fps progressive frames can be fully recovered from 1080i60 signals. Just because it is sent out as 1080i doesn't mean you can't view the original 24Hz progressive content as it was filmed. My JVC LCoS RPTV perfectly reassembles 1080p 24Hz frames from 1080i60 broadcasts, and so do the deinterlacers in many other TVs and outboard scalers.

Because of this, I am viewing every scripted prime time TV show in the original 1080p on my TV, even though it has to be put into a 1080i signal to get it to my home.

Edit: Ok, for the nitpickers, my 60Hz display has to display the 24Hz frames with a 3:2 cadence (judder). A 120Hz set can use a 5:5 cadence (or 3:3 for a 72Hz display) to eliminate the judder.

 

[Smith P.]

<...> Whether its 1080i or 720p you still only seeing 720 lines of picture. The only difference is with 1080i the lines just get stolen from the odd frames, and doubled in with the even frames. Either way your still only seeing 720 lines, and that is why I hate all this interlaced stuff.

Little self education help you fix your missed knowledge - that Poke's post for start and John's remarks - click here.

 

[aperry]

Wow look at these beautiful resolution and bitrate numbers from FIOS

Nice, but FiOS is only available in a very small portion of the country. Still, I'd like to see Dish improve the HD picture as well.

 

[Massmur]

There's about 15% more unique info per second (or 1/30 of a second) in a 1080I picture v. a 720P picture, the only broadcast formats. It's claimed the 1080I looks sharper when there is little motion in the picture and 720P looks better with more motion in the picture. When neither format is restricted, It's hard to tell the difference. Almost all the visually degradation is bit-rate restriction. The eye does not detect a high resolution when the scene is in motion. Bit rate reduction relies on this phenomenon but has carried it too far. Line doublers do not add unique information unless they interpolate and then they're averaging the two quantities. Most people cannot see interlacing at 60 fps. You can see it at foreign standards of 50 fps. The NTSC broadcast standard about to die next year lasted over 60 years! That's an eternity for a technical standard. It was designed for a 10" monochrome screen. We will see how long the ATSC standard lasts.

 

[DishDave]

Verizon great picture quality.
But the hole backend of the company bites. Verizon needs to realize they are providing TV,Internet,Phone service now. They still run it as a phone company.
They need to wake up.

 

[RockinHARD26]

How many HD channels does Fios have now? I've been looking at them, and find its very close to Dish.

From what I counted, including locals, 26 to 30. Is that correct? I could see, if they would have somewhere, like, the amount of 40+ channels, but just 26 to 30? I wouldn't boost! That's SAD because you are paying the same price as Dish.

 

[Jim5506]

When you refer to 1920X1080 without referring to the frame rate you are not giving us enough information to evaluate what you say.

1920X1080p60 is what most everybody thinks of as "FULL HD" - Only available with Blu-Ray or HDDVD.

1920X1080i30 is what everyone normally referrs to as 1080i.

1920X1080p30 is a progressive scan method that uses the same bandwidth as 1080i.

1920X1080p24 is the natural frame rate for motion pictures translated to HDTV.

These last three frame rates are possible within the current bandwidth even for OTA broadcasts and I believe they are even in the ATSC spec and therefore would be viewable on ALL HDTVs.

So, as you can see just saying 1080p really tells us only a little about what we need to know to understand the issue.

 

[Poke]

FIOS can do this do to they are installing a new network of fiber.. But overall I think once Dish gets their New Sats up and going their resolutions should be just as good..

 

[mdonnelly]

FIOS is the picture quality standard that all the providers should be striving to match. If FIOS was available to me here, I'd drop Dish in a heartbeat.

 

[Poke]

Yeah FIOS is ok to me it's still cable TV it's just a Telco is all. Overall Satellite TV still has allot of advantages on how they can pull things in. Where Telco's and Cable companies are still limited on how fast they get things rolled out. Also I think Dish's hardware is just as if not better than anyone else's out and it seems right now they are a head of the curve on implementing in MPEG4. Which in the long run everyone will be going to MPEG4 Standard..

It takes Telcos and Cable companies more time to update things due to their using physical connections and they half to update state by state networks. Which in most cases cost them allot of money and which in some cases their rates go up more often due to their overhead.. Folks forget that most everything is broadcast off a Satellite and Sat companies just put up a new Sat the hits the whole country and that's it. To where Telco's and Cable companies have to still physical run things in those states which can take allot longer.

This is why some folks can get more service features than other's due to it just depends on the kind of network those companies have running in your state or local city.. Either way I think FIOS is good but I will stay with Sat TV.. But between the rest of them I would put FIOS at the top then AT&T U service 2nd.. One thing that could be cool is if in the future Dish Receivers have it where they can have a Fiber input and push the video across all fiber instead of coax.. Anyway thats just my 2 cents on the matter...