How Dish's 1080p is going to work...

[TheForce]

Hammerdown-Rather my suggestion is for you to go back and review the basics. Maybe I'm just not reading you right but there are too many flaws in what you state. Joe Kane's "HDTV Basics" is an excellent starter. It's on BluRay disk You'll enjoy it.

1080i x 1440 has been around since the Sony HDCAM standards were set back in the early 90's. I recognize that many consumers, ignorant of the engineering basics don't agree with the HDCAM standards, and have pull quoted the an excerpt from the ATSC and ran with it because it was a bigger number(1920). If we dumped all the content that was produced with HDCAM, we'd have about 2% left. Simply stated, 1080i x 1440 is not HD Lite, it is the HDCAM standard. Personally, I have always felt the use of the slang term HDlite was a catch all for telling an engineer that you don't understand HDTV production variables.

On HDMI with fixed pixel displays you would be getting 1920x1080i. Since 1440 is not a real standard I think any display would choke on a 1440x1080x signal fed into the hdmi port, and give an error message like "no signal".

Not necessarily. All digital displays will internally convert any pixel bandwidth to the native pixel display. (assuming it didn't exceed the upper frequency end of the circuit design.)The actual resolution is a variable dependent on more than frequency and imager native design. Plasma and JVC DILAs are excellent examples and has some rather weird design translations, yet will handle less than or more than native display signals just fine. Monitors don't choke, they just suffer quality when deviating from the native design specs.

 

[hammerdown]

Yes, I completely understand the HDCAM recording standard. I'm not debating HDLite vs HDCAM picture quality. I'm saying hdmi inputs/outpus have to conform to consumer electronics compliant formats. Please show me a TV user manual that mentions anywhere that it can accept/sync to 1440x1080 signal. It simply is not a real Tv input standard.

Also, everything I've read says if you hook an HDCAM directly to a display it outputs 1920 (not the digital stream, the Tv out). I can provide countless google links for this.

 

[jacmyoung]

...Also, everything I've read says if you hook an HDCAM directly to a display it outputs 1920 (not the digital stream, the Tv out). I can provide countless google links for this.

And so are all the HDDVRs with supposed "HD Lite" digital streams, they always end up output as 1920x1080i signals, even 480i SD signals are output as 1920x1080i. I don't see any HDMI format issue there.

 

[AdamGott]

What the heck is it with companies hacking up movies to fill screens. Just leave the stuff as it was presented in a theater for petes sake. It's not like this is base consumer VHS or DVD stuff. It's supposed to be things where people will actually care how the movie is presented.


No channel 501 for me and my 622 yet.

It's for all of the Bernard Farbers of the world (bonus points if you know who this is)... they don't understand/don't care and want their whole tv full of picture. I guess I don't mind it so much when they go from 2.40:1 to 1.85:1 but I had a huge problem with it when they went from 2.40:1 to 1.33:1.

 

[jacmyoung]

Unfortunately the HD providers are serving the general mass not your techno type of viewers, so the pan and scan wins. For those who insist on OAR, there are blurays for you so stop complaining.

I used to be partially in the OAR camp but no longer. You could always drop $500 and another $20/ea. movie so you could get the extra 10% of the pictures so you don't miss a leg or two, no one is stopping you.

 

[Nick1Toast]

I have had " I am Legend ' available for about a week now and finally gave it a try Sunday. My 722 and Pioneer 5070 linked up with no problems at all. When movie started, my set displayed 1080P signal which I expected. The pic was excellent even though the 5070 is native 768P, but then all my HD looks very good. I probably won't do much VOD at 6.99 unless they drop prices. Not likely.

 

[JimP]

Nick,

I've got a Pioneer 6070 plasma.

It was the first time that I tried out 1080p24 content. What was obvious to me was that horizontal pans were smoother. Vertical pans would sometimes still appear slighly jerky.

 

[tigerfan33]

I was "Turbo Charged" last night to SW 612 on my 622 last night. I get channel 501 but when I go to the channel "College Road Trip" is the movie. "I am Legend" is not showing. Does it take another day or two to get the 1080p movie in VOD???

 

[rockymtnhigh]

The movie is in full 16x9 AR and I can't recall if this is OAR or not. I'll wait for the BD version to compare. From Memory, I thought there was some scenes missing from the movie but as the last time I saw this movie was several months ago, It could be that what I remember were indeed witnessed as "deleted scenes" in the extra features.

I am pretty darn sure the BD is NOT full 16x9, in fact I am positive of it, which is interesting that Dish would change the aspect ratio.

I look forward to your comparison of BD to Dish 1080p.

 

[8bitbytes]

Zoomed to 16x9 from OAR... That's disappointing and somewhat ignorant on Dish's part. The people who really care about 1080p24 will also be the ones who want OAR. Dish has blown this opportunity completely.

 

[jacmyoung]

Zoomed to 16x9 from OAR... That's disappointing and somewhat ignorant on Dish's part. The people who really care about 1080p24 will also be the ones who want OAR. Dish has blown this opportunity completely.

Nothing to do with DISH, what you see is what you get from the studio which sent this copy to DISH. DISH cannot alter the file.

 

[varcieri]

I was "Turbo Charged" last night to SW 612 on my 622 last night. I get channel 501 but when I go to the channel "College Road Trip" is the movie. "I am Legend" is not showing. Does it take another day or two to get the 1080p movie in VOD???

Ditto for me. When can we expect I am Legen? It's only 12 more days until the end of August - would really like to see something in 1080P for 1.99!!

 

[8bitbytes]

Nothing to do with DISH, what you see is what you get from the studio which sent this copy to DISH. DISH cannot alter the file.

Dish has no control over what they present? No coordination with the studio or provider? Maybe that's why they only charged $2.99 - non-OAR is definitely not worth full price.

 

[waltinvt]

Zoomed to 16x9 from OAR... That's disappointing and somewhat ignorant on Dish's part.

surely you jest

The people who really care about 1080p24 will also be the ones who want OAR. Dish has blown this opportunity completely.

dadada-dot-da-dut (to the tune of "Another One Bites the Dust"

I couldn't agree more with you.:up

 

[waltinvt]

Zoomed to 16x9 from OAR... That's disappointing and somewhat ignorant on Dish's part. The people who really care about 1080p24 will also be the ones who want OAR. Dish has blown this opportunity completely.

Nothing to do with DISH, what you see is what you get from the studio which sent this copy to DISH. DISH cannot alter the file.

Dish has no control over what they present? No coordination with the studio or provider? Maybe that's why they only charged $2.99 - non-OAR is definitely not worth full price.

You beat me to it 8bites. I mean like being one of the top satellite tv providers in the country doesn't at least get them the "ear" of the studios occasionally? Pla-eeeeeese! Well, maybe not, as I'm sure Dish must have fought tooth and nail against implementing the "Limited Recording" downgrade of HD PPV and look where that got them.

Anyway, Dish is obviously committed to making it's VOD feature attractive to it's more discerning customers. That's why they have movies like "The Bank Job" as a selection on VOD for $4.99 and only available for 24 hours; can not be recorded to HDD and is 4:3 AR. BUUUUUUUUT scroll down to their PPV selections and you can get the same movie, again for $4.99 but with NO viewing deadline at all, in letterbox AR ANNNNNNNNNNND you can record it to your HDD to keep f-o-r-e-v-e-r!

See Dish is so smart, they think their customers are so dumb and their attention span so short that they won't notice this.

 

[jacmyoung]

Sorry but the reality is, no! The studios own the content, they have the final say. Did anyonw convince HBO to keep their movies OAR? How about Starz? As far as I know only Showtime still does a fair amount of OARs, but then again there is not much to see on Showtime.

Sorry the argument is over, for the majority they don't want to see black bars, no matter where the bars are, and for those of you who want OAR, go get a Bluray player and buy the disks.

 

[8bitbytes]

Sorry but the reality is, no! The studios own the content, they have the final say. Did anyonw convince HBO to keep their movies OAR? How about Starz? As far as I know only Showtime still does a fair amount of OARs, but then again there is not much to see on Showtime.

Sorry the argument is over, for the majority they don't want to see black bars, no matter where the bars are, and for those of you who want OAR, go get a Bluray player and buy the disks.

While I respect your right to have an opinion, I'd like to see documentation that Dish has no say and that the studios refuse to release OAR.

 

[jacmyoung]

While I respect your right to have an opinion, I'd like to see documentation that Dish has no say and that the studios refuse to release OAR.

Did I say DISH had no say? No I said the studios have the final say. Why isn't HBO in OAR? Why isn't Starz in OAR?

Why does Showtime use OAR? All because of DISH? Give me a break!

So what does a document have anything to do with it? The only time you can blame DISH is if only DISH's HBO shows pan and scan, anyone else's HBO (DirecTV, Comcast...) are all OAR.

 

[8bitbytes]

All because of DISH? Give me a break!

So what does a document have anything to do with it? The only time you can blame DISH is if only DISH's HBO shows pan and scan, anyone else's HBO (DirecTV, Comcast...) are all OAR.

Why doesn't Dish have certain LiLs or other "cable" channels? Because of the provider?

How do we / you know that the OAR service is available but Dish doesn't want it because of price or some idiot at Dish who says he would rather have the screen full?

How do we know that the original signal provided to service providers is not OAR and that they, under the influence of J6P, zoom the signal to fill the 16x9 screen?

Give you a break? What for? We should just believe you?

I'm already aware of your opinion.
I was trying to determine if it was an "informed" opinion.

 

[jacmyoung]

Why doesn't Dish have certain LiLs or other "cable" channels? Because of the provider?

How do we / you know that the OAR service is available but Dish doesn't want it because of price or some idiot at Dish who says he would rather have the screen full?

How do we know that the original signal provided to service providers is not OAR and that they, under the influence of J6P, zoom the signal to fill the 16x9 screen?

Give you a break? What for? We should just believe you?

I'm already aware of your opinion.
I was trying to determine if it was an "informed" opinion.

That is very simple, DISH has no capability to pan and scan a signal provided by a source, may that be from HBO, Starz, or directly from the studio. Besides all carriage agreements contain languages that explicitly prohibit a carrier such as E* and D* to alter the source materials.

That is why I said give me a break. You simply have no idea how things work. They are not allowed to change the source format.

They can of course request that the 1080p VOD movie file from the studios be in OAR, but it is up to the studios to decide if they will give E* an OAR copy or not. This is exactly the same when the 24-hour PPV limitation was announced, people like you blamed E* or D*, not knowing it was really not up to them, the studios wanted that limitation so the PPVs did not cut into their DVD sales. E* and D* would never have wanted such self-imposed limitation, because it is cutting into their PPV sales, but between having the PPVs with the 24-hour limitation, and having no PPVs from the studios at all, they had to choose the lesser of the two evils.

The same can be said for this OAR thing. So again give me a break.

Now if and when DirecTV sends out the same 1080p VOD to its subs, it turns out to be OAR, then you can yell at E* for not insisting the same OAR copy from the studio.