ESPN Looking for 70% Increase in 2012 Negotiatinos

[jimdandyvi]

There has been a bill sitting in committee at congress for several years to make ala carte a requirement. It has never been reported out and probably never will.

Money talks and the networks have the dough to keep congress in line.

 

[MikeD-C05]

That is true ,but Scott has already said there is high rumors that there will be new DISH programming packs WITHOUT Sports come next year. I think this is a make it or break it time for DISH. IF they allow the ESPN to extort more money for their channels and force all their basic programming packs to sky rocket AGAIN, there is going to be more lost subs. The consumer in this country has reached their limits. Satellite tv is a luxury that many have learned to do without in order to save money. DISH is losing subs now ,just about every quarter. The future growth for the "Low Priced leader" is looking dim. IF they don't draw the line in the sand and stand up to these Bullies , and that is what they are, they will lose even more subs in the long term. People who want Sports need to go to DIRECTV and pay for it there. DISH needs to differentiate themselves from the other companies and provide the consumer a real CHOICE. If they want sports packs ,spin them off into their own premium sports packs and let those subs pay for them. The rest of us should be allowed to save the money on the channels we don't watch anyway. DISH could even follow their sat cousins to the north and create theme packs that you can add together to get what you want. IF they keep on with the ever increasing cost of programming , they are endangering their very long term existence. The economy is causing many people to make the hard choices the last few years and DISH's sub losses are a perfect example of that. It is time to make a STAND DISH!

 

[goaliebob99]

That is true ,but Scott has already said there is high rumors that there will be new DISH programming packs WITHOUT Sports come next year. I think this is a make it or break it time for DISH. IF they allow the ESPN to extort more money for their channels and force all their basic programming packs to sky rocket AGAIN, there is going to be more lost subs. The consumer in this country has reached their limits. Satellite tv is a luxury that many have learned to do without in order to save money. DISH is losing subs now ,just about every quarter. The future growth for the "Low Priced leader" is looking dim. IF they don't draw the line in the sand and stand up to these Bullies , and that is what they are, they will lose even more subs in the long term. People who want Sports need to go to DIRECTV and pay for it there. DISH needs to differentiate themselves from the other companies and provide the consumer a real CHOICE. If they want sports packs ,spin them off into their own premium sports packs and let those subs pay for them. The rest of us should be allowed to save the money on the channels we don't watch anyway. DISH could even follow their sat cousins to the north and create theme packs that you can add together to get what you want. IF they keep on with the ever increasing cost of programming , they are endangering their very long term existence. The economy is causing many people to make the hard choices the last few years and DISH's sub losses are a perfect example of that. It is time to make a STAND DISH!

The problem is if they make a stand they loose subs... Dish needs sports programming in order to survive. That is just about as crystal clear as as the colonel was in a few good men. LOL Serously, dish needs sports, they cant survive without them. You can only bleed subs for so long before people notice. On top of that, subs are loosing programming and they are not gaining anything in return. I [Strike] dont think [/Strike] know the economy isnt to blame here... Dish is the ONLY provider to loose subs.. Directv has had record growth, Uverse, Comcast and all of them have had sub growth.. The only provider to loose subs is Dish.

But then again, we dont know what ESPN is asking for. Who know's to you or I ESPN could be asking for a 1 cent increase, but Charlie is frugile enough to say no. And why is it everything is being labled as bullies now..... Its killing our freedom of speech in this country. What ever happened to sticks and stones break my bones but words will never hurt.. When I was a kid what you did to a bully was punch them in the nose! That stopped them! Anyhow, I dare dish to get rid of ESPN, infact I want them to, so it can sink the titanic quicker. Maybe next time they would think twice about not listening to coustomers, after all were the one who put them on the map anyhow. That kind of attitude, taking care of coustomers and being thankfull for them has been way lost at dish.

I have noticed one thing, its only a minority whom doesnt want sports. The Majority do.

 

[osu1991]

Comcast continues losing cable subscribers to cord-cutting - Yahoo! News

Time Warner Cable Loses More Video Subscribers - Peter Kafka - Media - AllThingsD

You should look again. Cable is losing video customers too. The numbers are misleading because cable is gaining INTERNET subscribers. A lot of the cable companies are starting to refer to themselves as ISP's and not Video Providers too. I don't think Directv's numbers would be as strong if you take Latin American subscriber additions out too.

 

[Stargazer]

Just think, years ago the cable companies only had cable tv to offer. Later on they added internet and phone offerings allowing for additional ways for income. Satellite television has not been able to have that flexibility. Even though the cable companies are losing tv subscribers, they are gaining internet subscribers, therefore still not losing much ground as if it is making up for it. Even if they lost all their tv subscribers they would be replaced by internet subscribers and still have the phone subscribers as a bonus. Their net profit is higher on internet subscribers anyways.

 

[dangue]

The problem is if they make a stand they loose subs... Dish needs sports programming in order to survive. That is just about as crystal clear as as the colonel was in a few good men. LOL Serously, dish needs sports, they cant survive without them. You can only bleed subs for so long before people notice. On top of that, subs are loosing programming and they are not gaining anything in return. I dont think know the economy isnt to blame here... Dish is the ONLY provider to loose subs.. Directv has had record growth, Uverse, Comcast and all of them have had sub growth.. The only provider to loose subs is Dish.

But then again, we dont know what ESPN is asking for. Who know's to you or I ESPN could be asking for a 1 cent increase, but Charlie is frugile enough to say no. And why is it everything is being labled as bullies now..... Its killing our freedom of speech in this country. What ever happened to sticks and stones break my bones but words will never hurt.. When I was a kid what you did to a bully was punch them in the nose! That stopped them! Anyhow, I dare dish to get rid of ESPN, infact I want them to, so it can sink the titanic quicker. Maybe next time they would think twice about not listening to coustomers, after all were the one who put them on the map anyhow. That kind of attitude, taking care of coustomers and being thankfull for them has been way lost at dish.

I have noticed one thing, its only a minority whom doesnt want sports. The Majority do.

Sorry Bob, I've tried to ignore it as much as possible, but it just drives me up a wall every time I see it:

Dish has customers.
Costumers are people that make, sell or rent costumes.
Coustomers is a made up word.

Back to the topic, as far as we know ESPN isn't asking Dish for anything because they're in the middle of a multi-year deal. If that is true, we'll likely see this play out between ESPN and other providers before Dish has to confront this issue. This isn't a Dish versus ESPN issue, this is a ESPN versus all multichannel providers issue and should be characterized as such.

I'm honestly not sure where you were going with the bully and free speech criticism. ESPN holds all the cards with respect to exclusivity of sports content that a lot of viewers demand to have available to them. They use this as leverage to squeeze multichannel providers for both lowest tier placement and highest $$$ per sub and it appears likely that they will demand steep increases in the months to come or else... That fits squarely into the definition of bully in my book. I don't see how characterizing such behavior as bullying harms anyone's free speech rights.

Also, could you clarify what you think should be done? On the one hand, you just finished saying that Dish could not survive without ESPN but then you go on to talk favorably about punching bullies in the nose. Those appear to be contradictory viewpoints on how Dish or any other provider should proceed in their dealings with ESPN.

The one thing I do know is that pricing for TV is getting ridiculous. The whole thing is a mess. And I'm not sure that there's a simple fix out there that will help control costs without making some significant segment of consumers hopping mad.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[HanoverPretzel]

The one thing I do know is that pricing for TV is getting ridiculous.

I agree with you there!

It's just that for many consumers, myself included, television without sports is almost like getting electric service without electricity. You start to wonder what you're paying for if the sports you love aren't there. Granted, I like watching the news or old sitcoms or whatever sometimes, but it's nothing I'd pay for (At least not more than like $10/month). If it can down to paying a significant monthly fee for sportsless television, I'd drop it like a hot potato and maybe get one of those little roku boxes to stream news and old sitcoms from the under $10 streaming service of my choice (Netflix, Hulu, whatever). Sports is the thing that makes cable/satellite worth it to me.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I agree wholeheartedly that Cable companies are losing subs faster than even DISH. I agree , I think that Directv is pumping up their numbers with the Latin America subs. DISH can spin off the sports channels into their own premium pack and the sports subs can pay for what they want to watch. While the rest of us that don't like sports can save some money. Besides if DISH doesn't take a stand against the Espn extortion , they will join the ranks of the cable companies and continue to lose subs without the internet to fall back on.

Charlie knows when to cut his losses here and I think we are fast reaching that point. The type of customers that DISH has always attracted have been the low cost customers. They base all their advertising on that fact against DIRECTV. IF they continue to let ESPN and other sports channels pump up the price of their programming , they will reach a point of diminishing returns . I think that in some ways they have already reached that point ,evidenced by the last three quarters of continued sub loses. One more big price hike will only push that count higher. Unless he takes a stand and be the first to spin the sports off to it's own premium pack. Cost conscience customers will continue to think of DISH as a low cost provider of cable channels if they do this. Other wise I think that instead of just switching to other video companies, they will simply cut the cord and will be lost for ever as a pay tv sub of any company. That is the future all tv providers face here and in the future. New generations of kids don't even see the reason to ever EVER pay for tv at all, that is only going to grow as the next generations come of age to have tv of their own. ESPN continued extortion for channels that maybe only half the tv customers watch, will only accelerate the trend of cord cutting ,which will endager the entire industry as a whole.

Now for the sports people, who see no reason why we should all pay a premium price to keep the cost of their channels lower, imagine this concept. What if the premium movie channels like HBO were now included in the price of basic programming packs to keep them low. Would you be offended at having to pay more for your basic programming packs in order for the movie subs like me , who want to keep their movie channels price lower? Same concept if you think about it. We pay at least $10.00 - $15.00 more for each basic programming pack in order to keep the sports channels and the rsns lower priced. Why not do the same thing for movie channels like HBO? What you object? Same idea, Premium movie packs at a premium price vs Premium sports pack at a premium price included in your basic programming packs. OR how about premium sports packs ala cart and premium movie packs ala cart, and each pays for what they want or don't take either at all saving consumers more money.

A True Free market concept.

 

[dangue]

I agree wholeheartedly that Cable companies are losing subs faster than even DISH. I agree , I think that Directv is pumping up their numbers with the Latin America subs. DISH can spin off the sports channels into their own premium pack and the sports subs can pay for what they want to watch. While the rest of us that don't like sports can save some money. Besides if DISH doesn't take a stand against the Espn extortion , they will join the ranks of the cable companies and continue to lose subs without the internet to fall back on.

Charlie knows when to cut his losses here and I think we are fast reaching that point. The type of customers that DISH has always attracted have been the low cost customers. They base all their advertising on that fact against DIRECTV. IF they continue to let ESPN and other sports channels pump up the price of their programming , they will reach a point of diminishing returns . I think that in some ways they have already reached that point ,evidenced by the last three quarters of continued sub loses. One more big price hike will only push that count higher. Unless he takes a stand and be the first to spin the sports off to it's own premium pack. Cost conscience customers will continue to think of DISH as a low cost provider of cable channels if they do this. Other wise I think that instead of just switching to other video companies, they will simply cut the cord and will be lost for ever as a pay tv sub of any company. That is the future all tv providers face here and in the future. New generations of kids don't even see the reason to ever EVER pay for tv at all, that is only going to grow as the next generations come of age to have tv of their own. ESPN continued extortion for channels that maybe only half the tv customers watch, will only accelerate the trend of cord cutting ,which will endager the entire industry as a whole.

Now for the sports people, who see no reason why we should all pay a premium price to keep the cost of their channels lower, imagine this concept. What if the premium movie channels like HBO were now included in the price of basic programming packs to keep them low. Would you be offended at having to pay more for your basic programming packs in order for the movie subs like me , who want to keep their movie channels price lower? Same concept if you think about it. We pay at least $10.00 - $15.00 more for each basic programming pack in order to keep the sports channels and the rsns lower priced. Why not do the same thing for movie channels like HBO? What you object? Same idea, Premium movie packs at a premium price vs Premium sports pack at a premium price included in your basic programming packs. OR how about premium sports packs ala cart and premium movie packs ala cart, and each pays for what they want or don't take either at all saving consumers more money.

A True Free market concept.

The problem is that I don't see ESPN (Disney) allowing this. And it's not even a matter of just saying to hell with ESPN if we can't offer it in a sports pack or offer packages without sports. I'd imagine Disney would end up pulling all it's channels if any provider attempted this.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[TheKrell]

Go ahead, make our day!

 

[Laddyboy]

The problem is that I don't see ESPN (Disney) allowing this. And it's not even a matter of just saying to hell with ESPN if we can't offer it in a sports pack or offer packages without sports. I'd imagine Disney would end up pulling all it's channels if any provider attempted this.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

Disney could lose a lot by pulling all its content. They are currently getting paid for quite a few channels that most of the 13 mil+ subs are receiving. Assume Dish loses 5 mil over the pissing match, that's still 8 mil times whatever Disney is getting for all its content per month. Assuming $10 per month for everything, that's an 80 mil loss of revenue per month. I'm not sure everyone will abandon Dish over the loss of ESPN, Disney, ABC Family, etc.

 

[goaliebob99]

Sorry Bob, I've tried to ignore it as much as possible, but it just drives me up a wall every time I see it:

Dish has customers.
Costumers are people that make, sell or rent costumes.
Coustomers is a made up word.

Back to the topic, as far as we know ESPN isn't asking Dish for anything because they're in the middle of a multi-year deal. If that is true, we'll likely see this play out between ESPN and other providers before Dish has to confront this issue. This isn't a Dish versus ESPN issue, this is a ESPN versus all multichannel providers issue and should be characterized as such.

I'm honestly not sure where you were going with the bully and free speech criticism. ESPN holds all the cards with respect to exclusivity of sports content that a lot of viewers demand to have available to them. They use this as leverage to squeeze multichannel providers for both lowest tier placement and highest $$$ per sub and it appears likely that they will demand steep increases in the months to come or else... That fits squarely into the definition of bully in my book. I don't see how characterizing such behavior as bullying harms anyone's free speech rights.

Also, could you clarify what you think should be done? On the one hand, you just finished saying that Dish could not survive without ESPN but then you go on to talk favorably about punching bullies in the nose. Those appear to be contradictory viewpoints on how Dish or any other provider should proceed in their dealings with ESPN.

The one thing I do know is that pricing for TV is getting ridiculous. The whole thing is a mess. And I'm not sure that there's a simple fix out there that will help control costs without making some significant segment of consumers hopping mad.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

Sorry about that, that's auto spell check. I was referring to the bullying thing by the use of it. It just irritates me that everyone throws it around when they don’t agree with a point. Really what should be done is that dish should create their own compelling content and use it as a bargaining chip with ESPN and Comcast. Dish is playing in a content filled world where they dont have any content to exchange. Sure they could do a deal with blockbuster, but they dont have any content rights w/ sports to use as leverage w/ the major players. Also, its important to note they dont own the rights to the movies they have deals with with blockbuster, and there is nothing to stop any distributor like lionsgate, or HBO, or Paramount from circumventing Dish and going straight to comcast.

 

[goaliebob99]

I agree wholeheartedly that Cable companies are losing subs faster than even DISH. I agree , I think that Directv is pumping up their numbers with the Latin America subs. DISH can spin off the sports channels into their own premium pack and the sports subs can pay for what they want to watch. While the rest of us that don't like sports can save some money. Besides if DISH doesn't take a stand against the Espn extortion , they will join the ranks of the cable companies and continue to lose subs without the internet to fall back on.

Charlie knows when to cut his losses here and I think we are fast reaching that point. The type of customers that DISH has always attracted have been the low cost customers. They base all their advertising on that fact against DIRECTV. IF they continue to let ESPN and other sports channels pump up the price of their programming , they will reach a point of diminishing returns . I think that in some ways they have already reached that point ,evidenced by the last three quarters of continued sub loses. One more big price hike will only push that count higher. Unless he takes a stand and be the first to spin the sports off to it's own premium pack. Cost conscience customers will continue to think of DISH as a low cost provider of cable channels if they do this. Other wise I think that instead of just switching to other video companies, they will simply cut the cord and will be lost for ever as a pay tv sub of any company. That is the future all tv providers face here and in the future. New generations of kids don't even see the reason to ever EVER pay for tv at all, that is only going to grow as the next generations come of age to have tv of their own. ESPN continued extortion for channels that maybe only half the tv customers watch, will only accelerate the trend of cord cutting ,which will endager the entire industry as a whole.

Now for the sports people, who see no reason why we should all pay a premium price to keep the cost of their channels lower, imagine this concept. What if the premium movie channels like HBO were now included in the price of basic programming packs to keep them low. Would you be offended at having to pay more for your basic programming packs in order for the movie subs like me , who want to keep their movie channels price lower? Same concept if you think about it. We pay at least $10.00 - $15.00 more for each basic programming pack in order to keep the sports channels and the rsns lower priced. Why not do the same thing for movie channels like HBO? What you object? Same idea, Premium movie packs at a premium price vs Premium sports pack at a premium price included in your basic programming packs. OR how about premium sports packs ala cart and premium movie packs ala cart, and each pays for what they want or don't take either at all saving consumers more money.

A True Free market concept.

This happens now with channels like Encore mulitplex, in americas top 250, yet you see nobody complaining about that.. Just sayin...

 

[goaliebob99]

Go ahead, make our day!

Ok... Good luck watching dish in 9 months as by then, it would be like how 4dtv is now. You know how many subs they have.... Not many except a few diehards.

 

[goaliebob99]

Disney could lose a lot by pulling all its content. They are currently getting paid for quite a few channels that most of the 13 mil+ subs are receiving. Assume Dish loses 5 mil over the pissing match, that's still 8 mil times whatever Disney is getting for all its content per month. Assuming $10 per month for everything, that's an 80 mil loss of revenue per month. I'm not sure everyone will abandon Dish over the loss of ESPN, Disney, ABC Family, etc.

Disney is betting that you would switch if it ever came to that, and if there was a mass exidus, that plays in disney's hand as they would keep that money from the subs as it would just shift who pays them or what provider.

 

[BrianHD]

ESPN already has too much say in sports. Fans need to band together and start listening to radio broadcasts if this happens.

There was a day when hardly any games were broadcast. Universities, who actually have the product ESPN wants to broadcast, need to realize less people will be viewing games. That's fans as well as potential recruits. Companies need to realize less people will see their commercials.

In a bad economy I already see people cutting back on things to save money. Entertainment is next.

 

[MikeD-C05]

This happens now with channels like Encore mulitplex, in americas top 250, yet you see nobody complaining about that.. Just sayin...

Except the Encore pack is only $5.00 ala cart - not $13.00 like Showtime/cinemax/starz or $16.00 like HBO is now ala cart. Just saying.....

 

[goaliebob99]

Except the Encore pack is only $5.00 ala cart - not $13.00 like Showtime/cinemax/starz or $16.00 like HBO is now ala cart. Just saying.....

At what point is too much, too much? What may be too much for you might not be too much for another coustomer. There is not cutting line that says this channel is too much but this one isnt.

 

[MikeD-C05]

At what point is too much, too much? What may be too much for you might not be too much for another coustomer. There is not cutting line that says this channel is too much but this one isnt.

I think you missed the point of my entire earlier post. But I will not argue the point any longer. I'll just say one last time. I think DISH should spin off the Sports channels into their own Premium pack, just like the premium movie packs are now. IF not and the price hike goes through for ESPN , I see more subs churning due to the price going up. The point of diminishing returns has been reached. IF DISH loses subs because of no ESPN ,then subs churn . If DISH keeps them and the price of all programming packs go up , then subs churn . The question is which action they take will cost them more subs now and in the future.

 

[Scherrman]

Losing ESPN or having to pay more just to have it would be far more destructive than you could ever realize. It would take Dish years to position themselves in the correct way to recover all of the lost subs they would have right away.