DIRECTV unlikely to keep NFL Sunday Ticket

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Commercial high speed internet is alot more expensive than residential high speed internet...the ROI is not there for most small bars and restaraunts..even the bigger ones usually dont have wifi for customers..just credit card machines and such..thus amazon figured out
Everything is more expensive for business, look at the cost of Sunday Ticket for them.

But it is a moot point, how we receive TV Programming is changing, for now businesses can delay things, but it is inevitable that we are switching to a streaming world, they need to upgrade that as consumers have.

Right now, 68 million households have Traditional Providers, out of 128 Million Households in the US, so by next year the majority will flip, there will be more households without a Traditional Provider then with.
 
Everything is more expensive for business, look at the cost of Sunday Ticket for them.

But it is a moot point, how we receive TV Programming is changing, for now businesses can delay things, but it is inevitable that we are switching to a streaming world, they need to upgrade that as consumers have.

Right now, 68 million households have Traditional Providers, out of 128 Million Households in the US, so by next year the majority will flip, there will be more households without a Traditional Provider then with.
Its not a moot point..amazon figured out change takes time...you dont screw over your best customers
 
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The other issue is a commercial Amazon account that allows public viewing of the games. It doesn’t appear that Amazon has such a beast. It also doesn’t appear that Amazon is interested in creating such a beast.

Sub-licensing the content is an option. DirecTV is clearly interested in this role. The question is whether Amazon or the NFL care. So far, they don’t seem to.

TNF may simply not be available to be viewed outside of the residential accounts.
Its more than that..but thats probably their biggest concern..streaming in general isn't allowed in commercial settings..no way to enforce contractual agreements..err ctoo much pirating
 
so we get pick and play but you may endup paying for the same ESPN / sports x3 times? If you have HBO , Netflix and prime?

I don't think people will want to be forced to pay for sports on netflix even if they don't want it and netflix maybe forced to make basic level come with HD.

and then will there be say an cable like service that gives you
one UI
one bill
one set of rules / fees for multi room / multi box / multi viewing?

Will there be say
leagues/conferences/teams themselves system comes with ALL teams games (maybe local areas only)
  1. With the teams sueing for the right to sell there own games?
  2. With some kind of In market + (lower cost your team only ESPN)
    1. Simsub the ESPN only games on the local team service like how the NFL does it on OTA for steaming / cable only games.
  3. Only playoffs on that nation wide service that are not part of the team only service
The short answer to your various questions is that hard-core sports fans -- folks who want to watch 95% of a particular team's/sport's regular season games -- will end up paying more under the future direct-to-consumer system than they have historically under the cable bundle system, because under the new system, people like me who are either casual sports viewers or non-sports viewers will not be helping to shoulder the cost of all those games. The cost will be concentrated on just the folks who care enough about them to subscribe to the specific sports service carrying those games.

Meanwhile, the biggest sports events that appeal to a broad range of viewers, including casual sports viewers, will be carried on big mass-appeal general entertainment apps, where the larger number of subscribers will make those specific sports rights deals more affordable. So look for playoffs and championships, plus a sprinkling of exclusive national regular season games, to be carried on those big services like HBO Max, Disney+, Netflix, Prime Video, and Apple TV+.

For folks like me, I suspect that (using inflation/time-adjusted dollars) the cost in 2027 to subscribe to all of those big general entertainment services combined, even ad-free, will be less than the cost of the current standard cable TV bundle including RSNs right now, which is about $90/mo. (This is the cost of DTV Stream's Choice package and also roughly the incremental price of adding Comcast's similar channel bundle with DVR service to their standalone broadband service.) But for folks who want all those general entertainment services plus all the various sports-specific services too, yeah, they'll be paying a LOT more than $90/mo.

I'm throwing out 2027 because I expect the transition from linear channel cable TV to the direct-to-consumer system to be complete by then. Linear channel cable packages will still be available, at least for existing subs, for a few more years after that point, but they won't offer any content that's not available same day, same time as on a DTC service. Meanwhile, as always, the DTC services will offer a lot of content not available on any linear channel, due in part to the fact that three of them -- Netflix, Prime Video, and Apple TV+ -- don't have any linear channel counterparts.
 
The short answer to your various questions is that hard-core sports fans -- folks who want to watch 95% of a particular team's/sport's regular season games -- will end up paying more under the future direct-to-consumer system than they have historically under the cable bundle system, because under the new system, people like me who are either casual sports viewers or non-sports viewers will not be helping to shoulder the cost of all those games. The cost will be concentrated on just the folks who care enough about them to subscribe to the specific sports service carrying those games.

Meanwhile, the biggest sports events that appeal to a broad range of viewers, including casual sports viewers, will be carried on big mass-appeal general entertainment apps, where the larger number of subscribers will make those specific sports rights deals more affordable. So look for playoffs and championships, plus a sprinkling of exclusive national regular season games, to be carried on those big services like HBO Max, Disney+, Netflix, Prime Video, and Apple TV+.

For folks like me, I suspect that (using inflation/time-adjusted dollars) the cost in 2027 to subscribe to all of those big general entertainment services combined, even ad-free, will be less than the cost of the current standard cable TV bundle including RSNs right now, which is about $90/mo. (This is the cost of DTV Stream's Choice package and also roughly the incremental price of adding Comcast's similar channel bundle with DVR service to their standalone broadband service.) But for folks who want all those general entertainment services plus all the various sports-specific services too, yeah, they'll be paying a LOT more than $90/mo.

I'm throwing out 2027 because I expect the transition from linear channel cable TV to the direct-to-consumer system to be complete by then. Linear channel cable packages will still be available, at least for existing subs, for a few more years after that point, but they won't offer any content that's not available same day, same time as on a DTC service. Meanwhile, as always, the DTC services will offer a lot of content not available on any linear channel, due in part to the fact that three of them -- Netflix, Prime Video, and Apple TV+ -- don't have any linear channel counterparts.
The NFL has a antitrust agreement that mandates local games on OTA..baseball has no such agreement..this deal came from the NFL/AFL merger

More details here...NFL games have to be OTA

 
The NFL has a antitrust agreement that mandates local games on OTA..baseball has no such agreement..this deal came from the NFL/AFL merger

More details here...NFL games have to be OTA

First, the terms of any deal can be amended. It's possible that as more and more consumers dump cable TV, and stop paying for their local channels to instead get them for free with an antenna, we see CBS and Fox approach the NFL about amending that OTA rule so that they can move all those local Sunday games over to their subscription cable channels (e.g. CBS Sports Network, FS1), while of course also selling those live games direct-to-consumer through their own apps (as CBS already does via Paramount+ and as I predict Fox likely eventually will through Tubi). That way, they make money on those expensive NFL games either way, whether through cable subscription fees or DTC subscription fees -- they don't lose lots of revenue from OTA "freeloaders".

But even if that never comes to pass, it really has no bearing on the prediction I made above. I'm not saying that local OTA stations affiliated with networks will cease to exist by 2027. I'm only saying that by that point, direct-to-consumer apps (e.g. Paramount+, Disney+, HBO Max, one or more ESPN-branded services) will have completely cannibalized all of those companies' content on their linear cable channels. But the cable channels, including the OTA locals that are part of the standard cable bundle, would continue to exist for some years after that.

But after the current NFL contract expires, in 2032 or 2033, I do think it's quite possible that the existing system of national broadcast networks with local OTA affiliate stations ends. In fact, I think it's quite possible that most OTA broadcasting ends at that point, period. Because the networks will by that point have placed their live national feeds, and their on-demand content, in their free ad-supported TV (FAST) apps. So, for instance, CBS would be free inside Pluto TV, Fox would be free inside Tubi, etc. They'll have lowered the cost basis of the content placed on those networks by that point to the extent that it will be profitable purely on ad revenue. And once the networks stream for free online, and broadband access is ubiquitous throughout 99% of the US population, why would anyone bother with an OTA antenna any more?

But the good stuff -- most live sports, plus higher-quality series with big stars, theatrical movies, etc. -- that stuff will all be reserved for those companies' subscription services, e.g. Paramount+, Disney+, etc.
 
First, the terms of any deal can be amended. It's possible that as more and more consumers dump cable TV, and stop paying for their local channels to instead get them for free with an antenna, we see CBS and Fox approach the NFL about amending that OTA rule so that they can move all those local Sunday games over to their subscription cable channels (e.g. CBS Sports Network, FS1), while of course also selling those live games direct-to-consumer through their own apps (as CBS already does via Paramount+ and as I predict Fox likely eventually will through Tubi). That way, they make money on those expensive NFL games either way, whether through cable subscription fees or DTC subscription fees -- they don't lose lots of revenue from OTA "freeloaders".

But even if that never comes to pass, it really has no bearing on the prediction I made above. I'm not saying that local OTA stations affiliated with networks will cease to exist by 2027. I'm only saying that by that point, direct-to-consumer apps (e.g. Paramount+, Disney+, HBO Max, one or more ESPN-branded services) will have completely cannibalized all of those companies' content on their linear cable channels. But the cable channels, including the OTA locals that are part of the standard cable bundle, would continue to exist for some years after that.

But after the current NFL contract expires, in 2032 or 2033, I do think it's quite possible that the existing system of national broadcast networks with local OTA affiliate stations ends. In fact, I think it's quite possible that most OTA broadcasting ends at that point, period. Because the networks will by that point have placed their live national feeds, and their on-demand content, in their free ad-supported TV (FAST) apps. So, for instance, CBS would be free inside Pluto TV, Fox would be free inside Tubi, etc. They'll have lowered the cost basis of the content placed on those networks by that point to the extent that it will be profitable purely on ad revenue. And once the networks stream for free online, and broadband access is ubiquitous throughout 99% of the US population, why would anyone bother with an OTA antenna any more?

But the good stuff -- most live sports, plus higher-quality series with big stars, theatrical movies, etc. -- that stuff will all be reserved for those companies' subscription services, e.g. Paramount+, Disney+, etc.
If no OTA.....every team negotiates own deal..like college
 
If no OTA.....every team negotiates own deal..like college
I doubt that's true. But my point remains that this whole issue of "must air OTA" that you bring up is -- as usual for your posts -- completely irrelevant to my original post to which you were responding.
 
The main issue is that Amazon could of handled the Business side, it is Restaurants and the like are not ready for the streaming world and they need to be,.
No, they found a way to do it better and cheaper.
The Sat Side will go down, no more Satellites being launched, no new new equipment being designed.
We have all read the FORMER owner’s claims. Fact if DirecTV was originally priced out as a service for rural America. The original investors thought it could take the place of the BUD niche. No one foresaw it being the fastest consumer product roll out in history.

Point is, it still works on a cost basis just for rural folks and to provide sports to the public house segment. Therefore, DirecTV will continue to exist, and to launch replacement sats, for many decades to come.

As far as equipment, waiting on someone to tell me the new features that the current DirecTV boxes lack that they wish they would design in the new ones. Fact is, they have perfected it.

Anyway, most of the do-dad features are for home use. Most bars have very old equipment. All they want to do is set the box on a channel and play the game. They don’t record, time shift, use the apps, They just show ball games.

But this is not ST , this is a deal with Amazon for TNF and will be a moot point if Apple gets ST.
You might wish to read the article. DirecTV almost certainly will provide both TNF and ST, no matter which company gets ST, to the public house segment.
Hell, Stranger Things Crashed Netflix on opening night, and thats One feed.
Think what Might happen when they try to do an Opening week at the same time.

I tried watching Amazons MLB this year, thats Just a Friday night ... it was terrible, audio and video issues every few minutes ... no it was not an internet connection, I'm running 200 mg, thye say you can stream 4k with 20.
Excellent points. This fall, IMHO, will be when everybody learns just how far from ready the internet is. And remember TNF is one, the lowest rated, game. Multiply by 15 games, all at once, and you start crashing all over. Its just not ready.
That is Apple’s MLB, Amazon has TNF and all of last year there was not one problem.
Massive issues, as I linked to the last time you said this.
There are about 1,300 BWW locations. How much revenue will making TNF available via satellite bring to Amazon?

The author was just using BWW as an example. Multiply it times every other such chain and then by all the bars and such in the country.

Many, probably most, just are not ready to stream 15 videos all at once. Most don’t wish to be, since a technology already exists to serve their needs.

Maybe, what, $1-2 million, probably less.
Understand they will lose money on this deal. They need the public house segment badly. And, again, BWW was just an example, its every one of these places.
DirecTV is going to take a cut. Amazon is paying over $1 billion a year for TNF.
I don’t know. DirecTV might take a small cut, or it could just view it the way it views ST. As something it has that the customer must first buy the predicate to get.

In other words DirecTV gets all the advantages of being a (the for many businesses) source for ST and TNF, without paying for it. Win.


DirecTV has had over a year to get a deal done with Amazon. What motivation does Amazon have to do a deal? If getting TNF into BWW via satellite mattered to the NFL, don’t you think they would have insisted on it as part of their deal with Amazon?
No they just have the sense to know that Amazon will make a deal. As predicted.
My prediction is that BWW will figure out how to stream the games pretty quickly.
The owners of BWW disagree. As to the MILLIONS of other such places.
Commercial high speed internet is alot more expensive than residential high speed internet...the ROI is not there for most small bars and restaraunts..even the bigger ones usually dont have wifi for customers..just credit card machines and such..thus amazon figured out
Exactly. Everyone wants to spend everyone else’s money. Fact is sat delivered sports WORKS, economically, for the millions of public houses in this country.
Its more than that..but thats probably their biggest concern..streaming in general isn't allowed in commercial settings..no way to enforce contractual agreements..err ctoo much pirating
Excellent point. Without getting deep into that, there are over a MILLION bars in this country, and MANY are quiet private places where strangers stand out. Strangers like spies from ASCAP.

With DirecTV, that really isn’t an issue. However a smart TV is a smart TV.
Its in my link..sports broadcasting act of 1961
The people that get screwed by the OTA requirement being as they are fans in secondary cities. The SBA only requires the games be shown OTA in the actual city (with an exception for Milwaukee relative to Green Bay). So if, say the Commanders are on MNF or TNF, it will be OTA in DC. But not in Richmond, the Tidewater, Roanoke, Tri-Cities, etc.



Anyway, what is left?

It seems pretty certain that the public house segment is going to be handled (exclusively??) by DirecTV. Both for TNF and ST. Will DirecTV likewise become a reseller for home accounts? And again, exclusively?

The big issue will be just how many failures TNF will see this fall. And will the NFL require a fix.
 
Point is, it still works on a cost basis just for rural folks and to provide sports to the public house segment. Therefore, DirecTV will continue to exist, and to launch replacement sats, for many decades to come.
2018: “We’ve launched our last satellite,” John Donovan, CEO of AT&T Communications, said in a meeting with analysts on Nov. 29.

“He’s not going to launch more satellites,” AT&T’s top boss, chairman and CEO Randall Stephenson, said of Donovan, during the meeting. “We’re kind of done.”

It’s the beginning of the end of satellite TV in the US


That's where I stopped reading....
 
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First, the terms of any deal can be amended. It's possible that as more and more consumers dump cable TV, and stop paying for their local channels to instead get them for free with an antenna, we see CBS and Fox approach the NFL about amending that OTA rule so that they can move all those local Sunday games over to their subscription cable channels (e.g. CBS Sports Network, FS1), while of course also selling those live games direct-to-consumer through their own apps (as CBS already does via Paramount+ and as I predict Fox likely eventually will through Tubi). That way, they make money on those expensive NFL games either way, whether through cable subscription fees or DTC subscription fees -- they don't lose lots of revenue from OTA "freeloaders".
I can see maybe an rule saying must be on an PAY ATSC 3.0 channel or must be in the basic level of an pay tv package.
 
No, they found a way to do it better and cheaper.

We have all read the FORMER owner’s claims. Fact if DirecTV was originally priced out as a service for rural America. The original investors thought it could take the place of the BUD niche. No one foresaw it being the fastest consumer product roll out in history.

Point is, it still works on a cost basis just for rural folks and to provide sports to the public house segment. Therefore, DirecTV will continue to exist, and to launch replacement sats, for many decades to come.

As far as equipment, waiting on someone to tell me the new features that the current DirecTV boxes lack that they wish they would design in the new ones. Fact is, they have perfected it.

Anyway, most of the do-dad features are for home use. Most bars have very old equipment. All they want to do is set the box on a channel and play the game. They don’t record, time shift, use the apps, They just show ball games.


You might wish to read the article. DirecTV almost certainly will provide both TNF and ST, no matter which company gets ST, to the public house segment.

Excellent points. This fall, IMHO, will be when everybody learns just how far from ready the internet is. And remember TNF is one, the lowest rated, game. Multiply by 15 games, all at once, and you start crashing all over. Its just not ready.

Massive issues, as I linked to the last time you said this.


The author was just using BWW as an example. Multiply it times every other such chain and then by all the bars and such in the country.

Many, probably most, just are not ready to stream 15 videos all at once. Most don’t wish to be, since a technology already exists to serve their needs.


Understand they will lose money on this deal. They need the public house segment badly. And, again, BWW was just an example, its every one of these places.

I don’t know. DirecTV might take a small cut, or it could just view it the way it views ST. As something it has that the customer must first buy the predicate to get.

In other words DirecTV gets all the advantages of being a (the for many businesses) source for ST and TNF, without paying for it. Win.



No they just have the sense to know that Amazon will make a deal. As predicted.

The owners of BWW disagree. As to the MILLIONS of other such places.

Exactly. Everyone wants to spend everyone else’s money. Fact is sat delivered sports WORKS, economically, for the millions of public houses in this country.

Excellent point. Without getting deep into that, there are over a MILLION bars in this country, and MANY are quiet private places where strangers stand out. Strangers like spies from ASCAP.

With DirecTV, that really isn’t an issue. However a smart TV is a smart TV.

The people that get screwed by the OTA requirement being as they are fans in secondary cities. The SBA only requires the games be shown OTA in the actual city (with an exception for Milwaukee relative to Green Bay). So if, say the Commanders are on MNF or TNF, it will be OTA in DC. But not in Richmond, the Tidewater, Roanoke, Tri-Cities, etc.



Anyway, what is left?

It seems pretty certain that the public house segment is going to be handled (exclusively??) by DirecTV. Both for TNF and ST. Will DirecTV likewise become a reseller for home accounts? And again, exclusively?

The big issue will be just how many failures TNF will see this fall. And will the NFL require a fix.
While I agree with the majority you posted here .... about the boxes you mentioned, what do they not do that new ones would ...
This goes for Commercial as well as Residential .... I have some boxes that are eons old, HR24's that are very slow and need replaced ... D* says they don't have any, Solid Signal does ... these boxes I don't use much, well one gets used alot, but the other not.

What do they NOT do, Work efficiently ....

As for coming out with new boxes, they really DO need new ones, 1 that does 4k WITHOUT an addl. add on box (C61k) would be nice.

They need to get rid of thier Server Only attitude ....

A new box, which as of now, we know is Not coming out any time soon, should be an actual working box that doesn't need a Server ...
When they went to the server type set up, I knew they were doomed ... no longer cared about the campers and the tailgate people.
That may only be about 10-15%, ,but they should not be abandoned.

There also hasn't been any info stating they have changed thier mind and will be building more Sats. unfortunately.
 
* att sold directv
TPG has No Interest in fixing D*, they put money into it to make money from the investment, not to save the company, they are not going to revive the company, no new Sats or boxes, Unless someone else would buy it, at a substantial discount that would have to be, however, no one has jumped to move that needle either.
 
No, they found a way to do it better and cheaper.

We have all read the FORMER owner’s claims. Fact if DirecTV was originally priced out as a service for rural America. The original investors thought it could take the place of the BUD niche. No one foresaw it being the fastest consumer product roll out in history.

Point is, it still works on a cost basis just for rural folks and to provide sports to the public house segment. Therefore, DirecTV will continue to exist, and to launch replacement sats, for many decades to come.

As far as equipment, waiting on someone to tell me the new features that the current DirecTV boxes lack that they wish they would design in the new ones. Fact is, they have perfected it.

Anyway, most of the do-dad features are for home use. Most bars have very old equipment. All they want to do is set the box on a channel and play the game. They don’t record, time shift, use the apps, They just show ball games.


You might wish to read the article. DirecTV almost certainly will provide both TNF and ST, no matter which company gets ST, to the public house segment.

Excellent points. This fall, IMHO, will be when everybody learns just how far from ready the internet is. And remember TNF is one, the lowest rated, game. Multiply by 15 games, all at once, and you start crashing all over. Its just not ready.

Massive issues, as I linked to the last time you said this.


The author was just using BWW as an example. Multiply it times every other such chain and then by all the bars and such in the country.

Many, probably most, just are not ready to stream 15 videos all at once. Most don’t wish to be, since a technology already exists to serve their needs.


Understand they will lose money on this deal. They need the public house segment badly. And, again, BWW was just an example, its every one of these places.

I don’t know. DirecTV might take a small cut, or it could just view it the way it views ST. As something it has that the customer must first buy the predicate to get.

In other words DirecTV gets all the advantages of being a (the for many businesses) source for ST and TNF, without paying for it. Win.



No they just have the sense to know that Amazon will make a deal. As predicted.

The owners of BWW disagree. As to the MILLIONS of other such places.

Exactly. Everyone wants to spend everyone else’s money. Fact is sat delivered sports WORKS, economically, for the millions of public houses in this country.

Excellent point. Without getting deep into that, there are over a MILLION bars in this country, and MANY are quiet private places where strangers stand out. Strangers like spies from ASCAP.

With DirecTV, that really isn’t an issue. However a smart TV is a smart TV.

The people that get screwed by the OTA requirement being as they are fans in secondary cities. The SBA only requires the games be shown OTA in the actual city (with an exception for Milwaukee relative to Green Bay). So if, say the Commanders are on MNF or TNF, it will be OTA in DC. But not in Richmond, the Tidewater, Roanoke, Tri-Cities, etc.



Anyway, what is left?

It seems pretty certain that the public house segment is going to be handled (exclusively??) by DirecTV. Both for TNF and ST. Will DirecTV likewise become a reseller for home accounts? And again, exclusively?

The big issue will be just how many failures TNF will see this fall. And will the NFL require a fix.
The money is in the advertising...when you have millions tuning in for free..it make no financial sense to move to a platform like a cable channel or streaming that will limit the size of the audience
 
The money is in the advertising...when you have millions tuning in for free..
What do you mean free, did DirecTV quit giving customers bills every month.
it make no financial sense to move to a platform like a cable channel or streaming that will limit the size of the audience
DirecTV is limiting the size of their audience all on their own, by losing subscbiers,
 
What do you mean free, did DirecTV quit giving customers bills every month.

DirecTV is limiting the size of their audience all on their own, by losing subscbiers,
I mean put a antenna up and watch for FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE
 
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