Sound Off: DishHD "Premium Pricing" Must Go...

[riffjim4069]

DishHD needs to change their pricing policies...it is too expensive, especially after adding all the fees, and they are no longer competitively priced in my opinion. Early last month, Scott alluded to "major news" involving pricing or free programming that would "create a buzz" in the industry. Well, I haven't seen any major news nor have I caught a major buzz from E* announcing more favorable DishHD pricing. Until recently, I was paying $122.98 for DishHD Platinum w/two 622s and one 811:

$104.99 DishHD Platinum w/locals
$6.00 Additional HD Receiver Fee
$6.00 Additional HD Receiver Fee
$5.99 DHPP

FYI: after 1 January the price will go up [at least] 5% since DBS services will now be taxed in Virginia. I have dropped down to the DishHD Bronze (the minimum package) and I am still paying $84.94:

$54.99 DishHD Bronze w/locals
$6.00 Additional HD Receiver Fee
$6.00 Additional HD Receiver Fee
$5.98 DVR Fee
$5.98 yet another stupid DVR Fee
5.99 DHPP

What I really want is DishHD Gold along with two premium channels (VIP $20 option). Let's look at how stupid DishHD pricing is:

$74.99 DishHD Gold w/locals
$20.00 (two premiums)
$6.00 Additional HD Receiver Fee
$6.00 Additional HD Receiver Fee
$5.98 DVR Fee
$5.98 yet another DVR Fee
$5.99 DHPP
------------------
$124.94

Now, let's take a look at my local cable company "Ditch the Ditch" promotion:

$29.95 digital cable (all the digital cable channels - fixed 12 month price)
$0.00 free HBO, Showtime and Starz for 12 months
$18.90 HD DVR Bundle (HD DVR, HD Plus Pack, all the fees, etc.)
$8.95 2nd HD DVR
$1.75 HD Cablecard for Sony (ATSC QAM) HD DVR
-------------------
$59.95


$59.95 gets me all the cable favorites, non-watered down HD (although far fewer channels at present), two HD DVRs, plus a cablecard for my Sony HD DVR.

Let's take a look at FiOS TV which was recently awarded a Cable TV Franchise in my area: (true HD, lots of HD (not the most due to VOOM HD), no added fees for HD channels or DVRs):

$39.95 FiOS TV Premier
$14.95 Movies & Sports (Showtime, Starz, Encore, TMC, Flix, Sundance)
$12.95 HD DVR
$12.95 HD DVR
$2.25 HD Cablecard (for my Sony ATSC/QAM HD DVR)
-------------------
$83.05 (right priced in my opinion)

Sorry Dish Network, but unless you drop the $20 premium you're charging for the privilege of subscribing to DishHD or add two premium channels (Showtime/Starz) to the Bronze Package, get rid of multiple DVR fees, and stop watering down the HD channels...I'm afraid that many of us I will no longer feed the Dish Network pig. DishHD pricing is too expensive and, as much as we love the 622 and other features, we simply cannot justify paying $39.93 to $63.02 more for similar programming. Sure, the cable hardware and EPG are inferior, but their HD PQ is superior. It's just not worth it.

My bottom line:

DishHD Gold w/locals (only need them for EPG), two premium channels (VIP), three HD receivers (two HD DVRs), and DHPP for $89.99 per month. Anything more is not competitively priced IMO. The days of paying a premium for HD is coming to an end...quickly.

• HD PQ matters to many of your longtime DishHD customers.
• Price matters most to the average Joe just getting his first HD
• HD is no longer a luxury, it is an expectation

 

[datwell]

riffjim4069: Yes! We have also been waiting for several things from E*...

1) The "loyalty" pricing Scott mentioned some months ago

2) External storage for the 622

3) The ability to watch material recorded on the 622 from say a 211 in another room (FIOS has this now, although their DVR is pretty weak).

---Doug

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I tend to agree. Dish does not pay any more to HBO, TNT, Showtime, etc to carry their HD channels. At the same time, they are applying heavier compression to HD channels in order to put more of them on each transponder, decreasing both their cost to provide the channels and the quality of those channels.

Demanding a $20/month fee, $240/yr, to get sub-HD quality "HD" channels is increasingly becoming a questionable charge. If E* has 500,000 HD subscribers then that is $120,000,000 of revenue per year. Given how E* is providing HD right now, I can't see how it is costing them that much. Then add all of the revenue from selling HD locals, leasing HD receivers, charging the HD DVR fee.

Likewise the argument we get from E* that they cannot offer a lower-cost option of getting an HD-only Premium Pack at a lower charge is that HBO, etc., don't offer their HD channels separately at a lower rate. This is simply more proof that E* is basically getting these channels free. So they are charging us the full rate for getting these channels in our SD package rates.

I think our best hope of the HD rates coming down is competition from cable, DSL, FIOS, et al. If those providers can find ways to deliver more bandwidth (which is very difficult for cable) and begin to provide HD channels at a lower cost premium. Perhaps eventually as simply part of their standard digital packages.

E*'s cost for providing HD is going to drop in the future, largely due to being able to put even more "HD" channels per transponder once MPEG4 is more efficient. They may be able to squeeze 6 "HD" channels per TP. Tandberg, the primary vendor of MPEG4 encoders, is claiming that they may be able to put 8 per TP.

I think one of the significant contributing factors is customer demand for HD. As more people buy HDTV sets, as more of them sub to HD services, the expectation that this is a standard service grows. So lets hope that this Christmas/Super Bowl buying season sees a big boom in HDTV sales.

 

[KwestJones]

Just 1 question: what will be the price of cable after the 12 months?

 

[Hall]

I asked you in another thread, but what is your cable company's pricing for that same "package" once the 12-mo promo runs out ?? You should NEVER compare promotional pricing to other company's "regular" pricing. That applies to cable vs satellite, cellphone pricing, etc, etc.

 

[riffjim4069]

I asked you in another thread, but what is your cable company's pricing for that same "package" once the 12-mo promo runs out ?? You should NEVER compare promotional pricing to other company's "regular" pricing. That applies to cable vs satellite, cellphone pricing, etc, etc.

I assume they will return to "normal" however, the fact remains that FiOS is still 15-27% cheaper than local cable based on the selected programming, and another provider, Cavalier Telephone & TV (www.cavtel.com), will soon be deploying their MPEG-4 IPTV in the area by spring - their rates offer similar savings. The local cable rates, or programming packages, will have to adjust downward or offer consumers more choices...or they are going to get killed by FiOS TV and Cavtel TV. Likewise, E* and D* will have to hold the line or reduce subscription rates or risk losing customers (aka churn).

I just feel the time is right for customers to stop paying a premium for HD. HDNet and HDNet Movies are just two cable channels...there is certainly no reason, in my opinion, to pay an additional $5-$10 for a handful of HD channels (HDNet, INHD, Discovery HD, etc.) or $20 extra for DishHD (just add VOOM). In all fairness, drop $20 off the DishHD price and you'll still come up with about $100 for their new customer promotion offer, which is $40 more than the cable promotion and $17 more than the FiOS TV regular price.

I understand what you're saying about comparing promotional pricing...however, that's exactly what Dish Network and DirecTV does when offer their sweet new subscriber deal. If we were to return to Dish Network they had better be able to at least match FiOS pricing, for comparable services, plus I would fully expect my wife will be offered all the "new customer" discounts/rebates and such. I guess my point is that it is fair to compare promotion pricing because DBS, Cable, Telcos, and IPTV providers will increasingly fight to earn our business. Heck, it just occurred to me that I was offered a pretty good promotion when I first signed up with my cable provider. Dish Network is free to match or better this offer to keep me a happy customer for another 12 months. If cable can do it, then why can't E*? And if E* can't do it, I'm sure FiOS and Cavtel will be wanting to talk to me.

 

[RandallA]

riffjim4069: Yes! We have also been waiting for several things from E*...

1) The "loyalty" pricing Scott mentioned some months ago

2) External storage for the 622

3) The ability to watch material recorded on the 622 from say a 211 in another room (FIOS has this now, although their DVR is pretty weak).

---Doug

4) NBR for the 5xx series. (What 2 yrs. now?)

 

[Hall]

In your scenario, you're lucky. Anytime there's "local" competition with the cable company, i.e. multiple cablecos, FIOS, etc, the customer almost ALWAYS benefits.

Dish, nor DirecTV, wants to get into the business of different pricing levels for different regions. I mean, TWC customers in the division I live in have different rates in some (very few) cities. Why ?? Competition.... For good or bad, E* and D* offer the same rates to everyone across the country. There's no "why does my parents in city 'a' pay less for the same service?".

 

[riffjim4069]

In your scenario, you're lucky. Anytime there's "local" competition with the cable company, i.e. multiple cablecos, FIOS, etc, the customer almost ALWAYS benefits.

Dish, nor DirecTV, wants to get into the business of different pricing levels for different regions. I mean, TWC customers in the division I live in have different rates in some (very few) cities. Why ?? Competition.... For good or bad, E* and D* offer the same rates to everyone across the country. There's no "why does my parents in city 'a' pay less for the same service?".

I generally agree, however E* did provide me with more than $400 worth of additional discounts last year simply because I asked for them. Offhand, I don't know what E* and D* will do to stay competitive as the cable wars generate momentum. I really though E* providing the most, and best quality, HD was a really selling point.

 

[Hall]

Discounts are on a case-by-case basis. You have to actively ask for them. Take your area, for example. Dish isn't going to just blindly apply discounts to all customers in that area just because you have competing cablecos and FIOS available.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I do believe we will see the price of HD Programming come down in the future, in fact I will go out on a limb here and predict in the future that as time goes on HD will become the programming standard and we might have to pay a premium on Standard Definition programming.

There should be no need to simulcast two channels for 1 channel (i.e. ESPN SD and ESPN HD) If you need the SD version because you did not upgrade your TV or Equipment to HD then in the future you may have to pay for the SD version.

Just my prediction anyways.

 

[Pepper]

With the new HD receivers the SD counterparts can just go away... you can always watch downrezzed HD on the connected SD set.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Not everyone will want to upgrade to a HDTV or buy new HD equipment, these will be the ones who want SD versions.

For me or you we want HD, for Ma and Pa Kettle, they want to see Willard Scott in the morning on their old Phillco B&W site from 1948.

 

[stone phillips420]

anyone watching on old b&w tv shouldnt even have satellite or cable, but im sure somepeople do

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I am sure there are some.

Just an example of the "If its not broke then don't try to fix it" type of folks.

We probably all know someone like that.

 

[SmityWhity]

My 5" B&W does work pretty good with the 622. I just wish I had room on top of the VW Bug for an antenna.

 

[jayn_j]

Not everyone will want to upgrade to a HDTV or buy new HD equipment, these will be the ones who want SD versions.

For me or you we want HD, for Ma and Pa Kettle, they want to see Willard Scott in the morning on their old Phillco B&W site from 1948.

Doesn't it eventually become an E* business decision that replacing all receivers with an MPEG-4 set is cheaper than supporting the extra bandwidth? The problem is in converting the installed base. Up til now, even the oldest receivers will still kinda work, and there are still a fair number of 3000's out there. If they turn off the MPEG-2 stream they need to do a retrofit to existing customers.

They don't need to sell these as HD receivers. In fact, they could introduce a low cost MPEG-4 receiver with only low res outputs.

My prediction. First, I predict no more MPEG-2 channels. All new stuff, HD or std def will be MPEG-4. If you don't5 have a compatible receiver, you don't get it. Second phase will be conversion of all Top-180 channels to MPEG-4. That is a smaller number of customers, and they already are more likely to upgrade. They will offer a choice of discounted receivers or dropping to a lower package. This will occur over several years with the next lower package until they finally drop the MPEG-2 streams from Top-60 around 2010.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Jay,

I agree with what your saying... Unfortunately Dish is not doing that (I thought they were) but now they are selling Pre Paid systems with 3900 receivers!

How dumb do pre paid with something 8PSK compatable at least!

 

[navychop]

Last I heard (read) all HD was to move over to MPEG-4 in 2007. Then over the next 3 years, more or less, all the SD would convert to MPEG-4.

I don't think Dish will feel obliged to replace a 7 or 10 year old piece of equipment with new equipment for free. Everything has a reasonably expected lifespan. But, they might, as a customer retention tool. I'd expect a shared cost, really good deal as the most likely outcome.

However, pre-paid 3900 accounts? They actually KEPT 3900s somewhere?

Ya gotta wonder.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

It would be nice if the HDTV/MPEG4 chipsets were so inexpensive that Dish would drop all of the SD receivers right now. All new customers and upgrades would be either 211s, 222s or 622s. If people have SDTVs then let them use the SD outputs of those receivers. Many SDTVs sold in the past few years have component inputs, so even those could be used at the default 480i setting.

But as I'm sure there is still at least $50-$100 of additional manufacturing expenses, E* is not going to absorb that kind of cost.

But if they did this, the phase out of SD channels could begin earlier.

And for those people with SDTVs and SD packages, the image quality of a HD channel that is downconverted to 480i over a component connection to their TV, would be much better than what they get now via a SD receiver and s-video connection. They would be thrilled with the changeover.