Question about the legality/morality/ethics of "moving"

[rad]

With all the death and destruction brought on from war, terrorism, insanity, gang violence and lets not forget about the deceitfull liers in Washington D.C. and someone on this board is worried about the ethics of "moving" so people can pay DISH $5.00 more for locals a month that they wouldn't get other wise. I have two words to say to this:

PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!

And just follow the laws that suit your needs and forget the other ones?

 

[Trouthead]

Does the law actually apply to individuals or is it a law that says what the sat companies can do??? Is there a penalty prescribed in the law that says what will happen if you lie to your satallite provider???? Is it really more of a regulation rather than a law???

Has it been to court to see if it is constitutional???

Do we still refrain from sexual activities in states were certain acts are "against the law".

Slavery was legal at one time. Harboring a fugative slave was against the law.
Do we have to blindly obey each and every law? Jim Crow, anti homosexuality laws, poll taxes, seperate but equal schools, all were legal. Now they are not.

Pretty philosophical for a discusion about TV.........

 

[gary s]

I receive my local L.A. HD locals through DishNetwork. I am about 60 miles from the stations with mountains in the way and could not receive them over the air without maybe a 40 foot high antenna on the roof.

I feel if you have an HD tv in this age of HD, you would want and should be able to get your networks in HD if available. If the networks in your DMA can't get them to you with a reasonable antenna and you can't get them as your local channels via satellite, you should be able to get distant HD networks legally. Without that availability you are pretty much left with moving to get full use of your expensive HDTV that supposedly the government is trying to switch over to.

 

[kstuart]

These local stations may also be angry enough to refuse legitimate waiver requests.

They already refuse them.

 

[Zero327]

Does the law actually apply to individuals or is it a law that says what the sat companies can do??? Is there a penalty prescribed in the law that says what will happen if you lie to your satallite provider???? Is it really more of a regulation rather than a law???

Has it been to court to see if it is constitutional???

Do we still refrain from sexual activities in states were certain acts are "against the law".

Slavery was legal at one time. Harboring a fugative slave was against the law.
Do we have to blindly obey each and every law? Jim Crow, anti homosexuality laws, poll taxes, seperate but equal schools, all were legal. Now they are not.

Pretty philosophical for a discusion about TV.........

This explains where society as a whole has been and where it's going. You can't equate taking a child's candy to a bank robbery or business fraud to slave trading and stripping people of all rights, not that you won't keep trying...

If something's wrong, it's wrong. The severity is defined as illegal, immoral or unethical from most severe to least, but the point is simply if something is wrong, you shouldn't do it. End of story. Justify it however you like. "Everyone does it, it's just that noone talks about it" doesn't make the ends justify the means. I'm just saying if DISH is put into a position to make those "movers" pay for their actions by the NAB, people will yell, scream and threaten. But at the end of the day, as usual, DISH will win, because you can't "sue the government in Washington".

I like a challenge though. Let's see how much longer I will hear "the glove does not fit!" argument before some progress is made.

 

[MikeD-C05]

The only problem with all the "death and destruction" of war, is people keep failing to line the reverse-Darwin's on the front lines before its over... Now get down from the horse before you hurt yourself.

I think I will put my high rise rubber boots on because the bullSH*T is getting thick and rising in here.

 

[MikeD-C05]

And just follow the laws that suit your needs and forget the other ones?

People when the law clearly says that is WRONG or illegal for the SATELLITE providers to "KNOWINGLY " sell you locals from outside your dma , this puts the law breaking blame on the satellite providers : both Dish & Directv. Yes you have to lie to the sat providers to get your locals from without your dma but the liablilty of the issue is on the satellite providers.

Don't you think that if the sat providers didn't want "movers" that both sat companies would not allow people to have different billing addresses from the service addresses? Or that they wouldn't require all mail to go to the service address only? The satellite companies not only know that this is going on, they are doing nothing to stop it because it means more $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for them from subs. They are just as much to blame for the "moving" as the customers who do the "move". THEy don't like the law anymore than the customers do. As Charlie Ergen has said and went to congress and the courts on more than a hundered occasions since 98 or 99: " I can buy a newspaper from anywhere in the world, why can't I watch a tv station from anywhere in the world? "


There are all kinds of lies in the world. White lies told by everyone all the time in order to spare other people's feelings. People who call into work and play hookie. People who lie to get locals they couldn't get other wise, because of old antiquated & MONOPOLISTIC laws created in the 1950s to protect the N.A.B. , an agency created to protect localism. It is a stupid antiquated law that needs to be challenged and done away with.

If you have your locals already up on the satellite and you are happy with them ,good. IF you don't then your only option is to "move" to get them. People shouldn't begrudge those who don't and act all HIGH and MIGHTY and SUPERIOR in their judgement of others who move to get them. For the moral superiors out there , remember the bible says clearly:

" JUDGE NOT, LEAST YOU BE JUDGED BY THE SAME MERIT YOU JUDGE OTHERS".

 

[mdonnelly]

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Seriously, my personal ethics won't permit me to knowingly mislead Dish about my status. If I did, then berating their CSRs for misleading potential subs would be hypocrisy on my part.

 

[rad]

Don't you think that if the sat providers didn't want "movers" that both sat companies would not allow people to have different billing addresses from the service addresses? Or that they wouldn't require all mail to go to the service address only?

There's nothing wrong with that, it goes on in the corporate world all the time. Where I used to work all the D* bills went to the home office for payment. I can see it also for someone taking care of the bills for an elderly parent. What they could do is require a phone hookup to a POTS (not VoIP line) to verify where the box is actually located to cut out the unethical moves. But just keep justifying your actions to yourself if it make you feel better.

 

[Trouthead]

So first we start with taking candy from a baby, then its lieing to DISH, then its selling drugs and then it is bank robbery. Just like the domino theory.

I am glad however that DISH is populated by such high moral folks. People that never lie, people that never distort the truth, while some of us are responsable for the state that America is in. Lieing to the American people and starting a war is ok, but lieing about DISH is moral and ethically wrong.

If lieing was so wrong in America, we would have President Bush impeached by now. But that is straying.

I feel no obligation to help the government inforce a law that allows my local broadcaster to line his pockets with a state sponsored monopoly.

An no one can tell me what the penalty by law is for lieing to DISH.

 

[Zero327]

this puts the law breaking blame on the satellite providers : both Dish & Directv

*throws stone*

I'm ready for my judgment now.

Keep twisting facts to justify your actions, it's still wrong, and that you write a page long justification just makes it that much more apparent. Satellite companies don't MAKE you do anything. (Didn't your mother ever tell you that no person controls the actions of another? Except for Sigfried and Roy, but that's different, they share custody of the tiger.) I'm not saying I agree with the NAB's stance, and I definately don't agree with the sat companies stuck in the middle.

I think the sentence above sums up the issue nicely. People generally don't care so long as the liability usually lies with another. But then the same people get upset if it comes back on them at a later time. (Whoops. Forgot that DISH lost distant distribution privilages eh? Sure they could have requalified everyone, but a few honest subs might have helped. Oh wow, we never thought about that. But people liked what they were getting, legal or not and now most everyone loses out. Feel better?) Makes no sense to me but ok then. How can you expect a company to do honest business with you when you don't do honest business with them? Is the legal and ethical good conduct requirement only one way to you?

My partnership with DISH is a business arrangement. Quid pro quo, I give them something, they give me something. If I give them less than I'm obligated (good information, product, legal cooperation, etc) should I be surprised if their reaction isn't the one I prefer? Everyone who chooses to do this needs to understand one thing: It's about as serious as smoking a joint in your backyard, but since its illegal if you get caught you're on your own. Suddenly all that moral support people get from current "movers" will disappear in the blink of an eye, and the consequences they'll face alone, be it fine or time. And in America...even if the satellite companies get nailed, it will be the CUSTOMERS that pay for it. Oops, another oversight?

 

[Zero327]

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Seriously, my personal ethics won't permit me to knowingly mislead Dish about my status. If I did, then berating their CSRs for misleading potential subs would be hypocrisy on my part.

Oooh. I like you. Well said. Very nice.

 

[mdonnelly]

... the consequences they'll face alone, be it fine or time.

Well, I don't think you'll serve any time for breaking the E* Residential Customer Agreement. It's your own ethics that are at risk.

 

[Peter Parker]

I know of no legal penalty against a sub who lies about his address to get locals from somewhere else. But the thread was not about that. Let's face it is giving false info and that is wrong. As I said earlier amny of us do worse things and i am no saint but wrong is wrong-------and raising the point ofa lack of legal penaltes ina thread like this is an attempt to obscure thee real issue.

 

[wh5916]

With all the death and destruction brought on from war, terrorism, insanity, gang violence and lets not forget about the deceitfull liers in Washington D.C. and someone on this board is worried about the ethics of "moving" so people can pay DISH $5.00 more for locals a month that they wouldn't get other wise. I have two words to say to this:

PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!

YES!! I have no desire to "move," but have no problem with those who do...more power to 'em.

 

[waltinvt]

They already refuse them.

I intended "present tense" on that.

 

[diat150]

*throws stone*

I'm ready for my judgment now.

Keep twisting facts to justify your actions, it's still wrong, and that you write a page long justification just makes it that much more apparent. Satellite companies don't MAKE you do anything. (Didn't your mother ever tell you that no person controls the actions of another? Except for Sigfried and Roy, but that's different, they share custody of the tiger.) I'm not saying I agree with the NAB's stance, and I definately don't agree with the sat companies stuck in the middle.

I think the sentence above sums up the issue nicely. People generally don't care so long as the liability usually lies with another. But then the same people get upset if it comes back on them at a later time. (Whoops. Forgot that DISH lost distant distribution privilages eh? Sure they could have requalified everyone, but a few honest subs might have helped. Oh wow, we never thought about that. But people liked what they were getting, legal or not and now most everyone loses out. Feel better?) Makes no sense to me but ok then. How can you expect a company to do honest business with you when you don't do honest business with them? Is the legal and ethical good conduct requirement only one way to you?

My partnership with DISH is a business arrangement. Quid pro quo, I give them something, they give me something. If I give them less than I'm obligated (good information, product, legal cooperation, etc) should I be surprised if their reaction isn't the one I prefer? Everyone who chooses to do this needs to understand one thing: It's about as serious as smoking a joint in your backyard, but since its illegal if you get caught you're on your own. Suddenly all that moral support people get from current "movers" will disappear in the blink of an eye, and the consequences they'll face alone, be it fine or time. And in America...even if the satellite companies get nailed, it will be the CUSTOMERS that pay for it. Oops, another oversight?

ive never seen so many girly men in one thread. the best thing to do is let people pay for their own consequences and worry about their own actions. i dont have to try and justify why I moved. I made the decision and I stand by my decision.

 

[waltinvt]

Ok, let's just cut to the chase and get a little philosophical.

Is lying ok or not ok?

Please provide "whys" & "whens" to justify either position and remember, truth is objective, never subjective.

In other words, arguments like "everyone else does it" or "nobody will ever know" have nothing to do with whether something is right or wrong.

BTW, it is possible to believe something is wrong but do it anyway and that's an important truth to keep in mind.

In fact, IMHO if you do something you believe is wrong, you're far better off to admit that (even if only to yourself), than to try to convince yourself (and others) there was nothing wrong.

You're better off to accept being wrong but maybe too weak to change (at least right now) than to attempt to create the illusion that nothing wrong has or is taking place.

Why? Because then you've not only thrown away any chance at contrition for yourself but probably have contributed to convincing others on some level.

Even more important is what happens when a society starts thinking this way. Pretty soon the whole concept of right and wrong is gone and the only possible outcome to that is anarchy.

And just in case your tempted to believe the moral and ethical changes to society over the last 30 years have been "good" things, ask yourself how much of what is considered acceptable today would have been (or is) acceptable to your grandparents. Then honestly ask yourself how much respect you had for those grandparents. Feel free to substitute other role models such as teachers, uncles, scout leaders, etc.

 

[waltinvt]

I just realized that last post probably strayed enough off topic to justify moving it (no pun intended) but please don't just delete it. Sometimes I forget and think I'm still in the Pit.

 

[Mr Tony]

Regardless if it’s right or wrong, people have their own views/reasons as to why they do it or don’t. What I personally don’t like is people who feel their views are better than yours and couldn’t give two s**ts about my view as an example.

Yes people will “move” and there are different reasons. Maybe they want HD channels and can’t get them OTA but the neighboring DMA does have them. Or maybe they do not like their “local” affiliates so they move to the neighboring DMA, which may be bigger. Or they are in a DMA that is either not on satellite or just part of them and they want all the nets. So they move. I have already stated my reason for “moving”

The whole “I want timeshifting” line doesn’t really fly anymore with DVR’s.

But like I say, people will move. Whether it’s “right” or “wrong” people will still continue to do it. It’s the person doing the move who really is the only one who should think if it’s “right” or “wrong”. That is why these threads always turn into pissing matches. There seems to be a couple people who apparently have done NOTHING wrong in their life so they feel their view is better and continue to spew the same thing over and over.

Like has mentioned before. What is the worse thing that can happen? Dish/Direct find out and force you to move back.

People will continue to move just like people in this world continue to do other “wrong” things like speed, do drugs and drink & drive.