ALL VOOM TO GO MPEG4 AUGUST 15th

[Hemi 6.1]

I got to tell you honestly, Since the added MPEG-4 channels, I think the picture quality as fallen off. Sorry to have to admit this but For some reason I don't think they look better,In fact I think they look worse. Anyone feel the same?? Trying to be honest so go easy on me!

 

[Smith P.]

Then we must hear DETAIL description of your observations. Channels, programs, time, screenshots, etc.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Then we must hear DETAIL description of your observations. Channels, programs, time, screenshots, etc.

I mostly notice it on HDN News and Gameplay channel. To me it used to look so good ,you'd swear you were right there. Now It looks like your there but looking through a glass window. Thats the best way I can describe it.These 2 channels are the only ones I think don't look as good as they Did.All the others look the same,but I'can't say they look better.As far as time frames go ,Try for the last 3 days all the time.

 

[richiephx]

Personally, I don't think HD is all people say or think it is. Sometimes its good, but most of the time it's so so. It's better than SD. I guess my expectation is too high when you compare satellite HD to blue ray or hdvd. I know E* is working to improve the MPEG4 decoders but I think that 6 HD channels on one transponder is fine if you want the quality that's equal to what we had with MPEG2, but 5 or less channels per transponder would/should increase bitrate per channel to improve picture quality. I think I read somewhere that D* will be putting 5 on a transponder. I can't wait to see objective feedback when D* adds to its HD lineup next month. I want to give E* the benefit, but right now I can't say I'm thrilled.

 

[JimK2]

Personally, I don't think HD is all people say or think it is. Sometimes its good, but most of the time it's so so. It's better than SD. I guess my expectation is too high when you compare satellite HD to blue ray or hdvd. I know E* is working to improve the MPEG4 decoders but I think that 6 HD channels on one transponder is fine if you want the quality that's equal to what we had with MPEG2, but 5 or less channels per transponder would/should increase bitrate per channel to improve picture quality. I think I read somewhere that D* will be putting 5 on a transponder. I can't wait to see objective feedback when D* adds to its HD lineup next month. I want to give E* the benefit, but right now I can't say I'm thrilled.

Most won't be able to tell but DISH MPEG4 AVC should look bit better with 7.5% hiigher bitrate.. Both should look better then PQ we get now.

DISH Transponder 21500 SR 2/3 FEC 8PSK RS 188/204 = 39. 627 Mb/s @6.604 Mb/s for 6 HD Channels.
DTV Transponder 20000 SR 5/6 FEC QPSK RS 188/204 = 30.718 Mb/s @6.1437 Mb/s for 5 HD Channels.

HBO's Zitter estimates that each HDTV feed will be delivered in that format at 8 Mbit/s, which provides the necessary amount of bits to produce a high-quality picture but leaves enough headroom (about 1 Mbit/s) to ensure the quality of the signal is not damaged when transcoded to MPEG-2.

 

[cebbigh]

I personnally think the channels they made the switch to look better than before. But I have nothing to base that on other than subjective observation. Kung Fu has looked great any time I've looked at it.

 

[riffjim4069]

I actually noticed some overall improvement will the DishHD channels are couple weeks ago. I just sat down with the VOOM channels and they look pretty good. There's really not a lot of good source material playing right now, but Treasure and Equator (HD cams) look excellent. Likewise, they are replaying an Nomad episode (Helicopter Skiing in Alaska) first broadcast back in February. I, for one, notice a big improvement with this episode.

Ok, just found a trailer/promo (I wish they would bring-back the VOOM HD Sideshow) that looks quite good...and the CFL game on WorldSport looks decent, however there are too many motion artifacts - but this is typical of a TSN production and not VOOM/E*. Again, not too shabby from what I see right now...just need some really good source material for a better comparison. Perhaps Baroness and the Pig (film shot with HD cam) will be playing in the near future. Oops, just came across a 4:3 karate flick from 1956 playing on KungFu...it actually looks pretty darn good too.

 

[Smith P.]

<..>
DISH Transponder 21500 SR 2/3 FEC 8PSK RS 188/204 = 39. 627 Mb/s @6.604 Mb/s for 6 HD Channels.
DTV Transponder 20000 SR 5/6 FEC QPSK RS 188/204 = 30.718 Mb/s @6.1437 Mb/s for 5 HD Channels.
<...>

Jim, DTV Ku muxes had FEC=7/8 and packet size of 128 bytes plus 16 bytes of RS parity.

 

[digiblur]

Most won't be able to tell but DISH MPEG4 AVC should look bit better with 7.5% hiigher bitrate.. Both should look better then PQ we get now.

DISH Transponder 21500 SR 2/3 FEC 8PSK RS 188/204 = 39. 627 Mb/s @6.604 Mb/s for 6 HD Channels.
DTV Transponder 20000 SR 5/6 FEC QPSK RS 188/204 = 30.718 Mb/s @6.1437 Mb/s for 5 HD Channels.

HBO's Zitter estimates that each HDTV feed will be delivered in that format at 8 Mbit/s, which provides the necessary amount of bits to produce a high-quality picture but leaves enough headroom (about 1 Mbit/s) to ensure the quality of the signal is not damaged when transcoded to MPEG-2.

DTV isn't using that type of modulation on their KA TP's.

 

[Drone35]

I think that the Voom channels that went to mpeg4 really look great, they are alot more richier and show more depth and alot more detail! The wow factor is starting to come back a little! This is what I'm seeing, anyone else seeing it this way!

 

[cebbigh]

I think that the Voom channels that went to mpeg4 really look great, they are alot more richier and show more depth and alot more detail! The wow factor is starting to come back a little! This is what I'm seeing, anyone else seeing it this way!

I went back and just looked at the channels again and compared to the ones that haven't changed I think they do look better. Hope they move the rest over soon just based on the PQ.

 

[GeorgeLV]

Most won't be able to tell but DISH MPEG4 AVC should look bit better with 7.5% hiigher bitrate.. Both should look better then PQ we get now.

DISH Transponder 21500 SR 2/3 FEC 8PSK RS 188/204 = 39. 627 Mb/s @6.604 Mb/s for 6 HD Channels.
DTV Transponder 20000 SR 5/6 FEC QPSK RS 188/204 = 30.718 Mb/s @6.1437 Mb/s for 5 HD Channels.

HBO's Zitter estimates that each HDTV feed will be delivered in that format at 8 Mbit/s, which provides the necessary amount of bits to produce a high-quality picture but leaves enough headroom (about 1 Mbit/s) to ensure the quality of the signal is not damaged when transcoded to MPEG-2.

You're math only works for DirecTV's legacy Ku transponders. The Ka transponders will be configured differently. (I think someone waded through the FCC filings and did the math, but I don't remember off-hand.)

 

[riffjim4069]

I think that the Voom channels that went to mpeg4 really look great, they are alot more richier and show more depth and alot more detail! The wow factor is starting to come back a little! This is what I'm seeing, anyone else seeing it this way!

There was too much poor quality material being show while I was viewing, but there is hope...

 

[JimK2]

DTV isn't using that type of modulation on their KA TP's.

If wrong please post correct information if you would, but according to Lyngsat.com DTV Ka HD Mpeg4 (locals) does use that type of modulation . DirecTV probably call's it "DVB-S2 Turbo QPSK" or something. DTV is using or going to use Tandberg's EN8090 MPEG-4 AVC SD/HD ultracompression broadcast encoders that were designed to work with DVB-S2 QPSK or DVB-S2 8psk
DVB-S2 and QPSK – can fit more than 6 channels of full-resolution HD
DVB-S2 and 8PSK – can fit more than 8 channels of full-resolution HD
Next Generation Mpeg-4 Encoders

and Spaceway 1 & 2 are definitely are not using 8psk, thats for sure, not when their using FEC 5/6.
20,000 Symbol Rate 8PSK with 5/6 FEC would have a data rate almost 50 Mb/ps
at Ka band (I don't think the Ka transponder's have high enough xmit power to overcome the additinal sky loss Ka
have over Ku to have the extra 1db-2db C/N Ratio needed to use 8psk)



Ka (5 HD channels per beam/transponder) 20000 SR 5/6 FEC
HD - Spaceway 1 at 102.8°W - LyngSat
HD - Spaceway 2 at 99.2°W - LyngSat

 

[Smith P.]

Those Lyngsat reports are inconsistent - for same sat there are diff data: SR is 30000 and 20000, FEC is adaptive so that's way we see different values.

Jim, please don't mix up DVB-S2 and DVB-S, there is no 8PSK for S2.

 

[JohnH]

It is certainly possible to have 8PSK and DVB-S2.

 

[Smith P.]

It is certainly possible to have 8PSK and DVB-S2.

Why, if there more rubust and suitable 16APSK and 32APSK used for DVB-S2 ?

 

[kstuart]

It sounds like Dish will need separate transponders for HBO with 5 HD channels at 8Mbps each.

PS Remember that Dish has a history of continually applying improvements to their encoders. In the future, the PQ on 6 HD MPEG4 channels per transponder, will be better than what we see now.

 

[digiblur]

It sounds like Dish will need separate transponders for HBO with 5 HD channels at 8Mbps each.

PS Remember that Dish has a history of continually applying improvements to their encoders. In the future, the PQ on 6 HD MPEG4 channels per transponder, will be better than what we see now.

They'll squeeze in into one 8PSK TP.

 

[HokieEngineer]

They'll squeeze in into one 8PSK TP.

Yea, have any details come out about HBOs 8Meg limit? I'm assuming they are not going for a constant bit rate, since that would be stupid and waste tons of bandwidth. An average of 8meg could be done fairly easily if they did 5 channels on a 8psk TP.