Cost of a transponder

Martyn · Mar 16, 2015

This question often comes up and I stumbled across a document today that details an actual bid put into the State of New York for ku-band capacity.

The state is paying $45k per month for 18MHz of capacity, which was defined in the request for proposals as 12MHz of bandwidth for homeland security data services and 6MHz for TV services. It stipulated a satellite between 72 and 99 degrees west, so I guess this is the channel we can now see on AMC 9?

The state was also proposed $165/hour for 6MHz of occasional use space bought in a block of 188 hours per year.

http://ogs.ny.gov/purchase/bidresults/1841-TM40_220br.pdf

T134 · Mar 16, 2015

Satellite time cost is extremely variable. Much of it has to do with what bird/location you are on, bandwidth requirements and negotiated rate.

kofi123 · Mar 16, 2015

Here are some other numbers from public PBS documents.

PBS subleases satellite capacity on AMC-21 to OETA and Montana PBS.

OETA pays $34,925 per month (see PDF page 18).
Montana PBS pays $12,965 per month (see PDF page 26)

The Louisiana Educational Television Authority (aka LPB) paid $38,155 per month in FY 2014 for satellite space (see PDF page 36 and note AMC-21 is the indicated satellite, which must be an error, unless the existing contract still references AMC-21, in spite of LPB having moved to SES-2).

PBS itself owes around $307,000-$309,000 per month for all its satellite capacity (see PDF page 19), which is held by long-term lease until the end of September 2016. At that time, in part to hopefully reduce costs of delivering programming to stations, PBS would like to move to a fiber and satellite mixed system that would only need 1 satellite transponder rather than the 3.5 currently in use. Furthermore, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is asking Congress to get rid of the law interpreted as requiring PBS to offer the "backyard" C-band feed currently seen on AMC-1. Getting rid of this feed would save $75,000 per month. More information about both of these things in this document starting on PDF page 24.

chadg2 · Mar 17, 2015

In the future most if not all of these stations will be feeding these signals over fiber optics. I see it already with events that always used to be on Satellite ITC, are now crap quality fiber feeds available only online.

Titanium · Mar 17, 2015

Fiber has the capacity for much higher bandwidth than a satellite transponder. Doubt what your are seeing has anything to do with the capacity of the backhaul, but rather the economics of a broadcaster saving in purchasing reduced bandwidth for backhaul or distribution. You see this on happen with both satellite and fiber.

rsmithwi · Mar 17, 2015

Looks like some major changes for the 125W PBS feeds next year. Would not be surprised to see OETA go away once they finish their fiber connects to the various cities with transmitters. Dumping the C-Band public feed is definitely a possibility and may just happen. As long as they can keep some decent programming on whatever satellite they move to if they do in 2016 that would be great. Hopefully it will KU since it's much easier to use a 90cm dish rather than a 8-10 foot C-Band one. I watch that mux allot, especially since the PBS station in MPLS does not carry Create which is a fantastic channel. Will occasionally catch a HD program feed on one of the HD services but since most of PBS programming is sent video IP over satellite to catch servers at the stations not everything is fed by sat.

osu1991 · Mar 18, 2015

I don't know anyone at oeta anymore, but I don't see them running fiber to all the sites.

danristheman · Mar 18, 2015

Remember islands out in the Pacific and atlantic probably don't have fiber. I have a buddy that works at the pbs station in fort wayne. He mentioned that they are planning to go to fiber by next year. Also you can get 103w c band pbs on a 4 footer at 70q I enjoyed that feed.

Bodo Fenrirsson · Mar 18, 2015

Damn dyslexia,I thought the title said,"Cost of a transgender."

danristheman · Mar 18, 2015

talking about taking the zippied out of do da of this thread.

kofi123 · Mar 18, 2015

danristheman said:
Remember islands out in the Pacific and atlantic probably don't have fiber. I have a buddy that works at the pbs station in fort wayne. He mentioned that they are planning to go to fiber by next year.

Again, this document explains things. Although I did write the wrong page number in my first post. Start on page 26 of the PDF.

PBS intends to keep the Pacific satellite link (currently on NSS 9 at 177°W, I believe?) in order to get programming to the Guam and American Samoa stations.

As for the other stations, as long as they can get a dedicated 100 Mbps internet connection, they should be good to go with the future system. PBS did a survey in 2013 that showed 70% of all PBS stations already could get a dedicated 100 Mbps internet connection to use with a new delivery system. I suspect the percentage may have gone up slightly since then, and may go up some more by next year as more and more businesses get easy access to 100 Mbps and beyond (past 1 Gbps) internet speeds.

danristheman said:
Also you can get 103w c band pbs on a 4 footer at 70q I enjoyed that feed.

That's the "backyard" feed PBS wants to get rid of next year. But they need approval from Congress first. To quote from the appropriations request:

PBS is required by law to provide a “clear-feed” broadcast of the PBS National Program Service (NPS) to “backyard” C-band satellite dish owners. The C-band requirement is contained in Section 705(c) of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. § 605) and specifically requires PBS to provide at least one unencrypted satellite feed to the public. As part of its interconnection system replacement in 1988, PBS implemented a new system in order to take advantage of digital encoding technology, providing new levels of bandwidth use efficiency. Concerned that the few million television viewers using backyard dishes at the time would not be able to receive the scrambled signal, Congress mandated that PBS continue to provide an unencrypted signal of the NPS to these viewers.

To comply with this mandate, PBS contracts for transmission of an additional broadcast signal on separate “C” band satellite capacity receivable on large backyard dishes. After use peaked in the millions of users prior to 2000, the number of such “large dish” users decreased to 590,000 by 2002. The rapid decline of large dish use has continued, with only 51,489 users by mid-2007. In recent years, due in part to the rise of “small dish” satellite television services such as the Dish Network and DirecTV, the number of large dishes in operation has dwindled to only an estimated few thousand, based on the documented industry rates of decline from 2002-2007.

CPB and PBS remain committed to ensuring universal access to high-quality PBS educational, enriching, and informative programming. However, CPB and PBS are also committed to responsible stewardship of Federal funds and seeking more cost-effective ways to fulfill the universal service mission. Continuing to provide the clear feed C-band broadcast as a separate component of the v6 Interconnection System would cost $9 million over the next ten years based on current charges of $75,000 per month, or hundreds of dollars per dish user per year, assuming only a few thousand current users. Given that lower-cost alternatives to receive PBS broadcasts are available to current big dish households, Congress should repeal the clear feed requirement. CPB and PBS are working to ascertain a more precise number and location of remaining big dish users to alert them of such a change and commits to working with Congress to assure their continued access to PBS programming via other means.

danristheman · Mar 18, 2015

I understand that it is a backyard feed but where I am at its hard to get 125w because of the trees. 87w you have to be right on it to get it. I do like the c band signal wonderful picture.

N5XZS · Mar 18, 2015

I rather see PBS go to KU band and stay in the clear! The law must be changed since the smaller dish I much easier to tune in and it's pulbic arirwaves IMHO! :bow

rsmithwi · Mar 18, 2015

Can't believe it can be so expensive for a KU band transponder. I could understand a protected C-band would be pricey since there is not a "ton" of space available. I read an technical note from iHeart Media that stated a C-band transponder was cheaper than a KU one. Guess it's time to save up so I can launch a new SD network!. No HD guys, sorry. I wonder what the rates are on Galaxy 19 since it's in a good orbital location.

Bob2011 · Mar 23, 2015

"Given that lower-cost alternatives to receive PBS broadcasts are available to current big dish households, Congress should repeal the clear feed requirement. "

Government thinking at its best ... making it sound better for the little guy who has to open his wallet when it is the government who has the lower cost alternative.

Big dish is already installed and working means nothing more than pocket change to power LNB.

The new "lower-cost alternative" means new dish mounted and installed. Plus the possibility of a new receiver.

Its sad that we have a government that will deliver cable tv to inmates at a cost probably much higher than this $75,000 and no one really wants to shut that off. How about we cut off the cable tv and replace it with the PBS feed. Big dollars saved and the prisoner may actually learn something.

Randamin · Mar 25, 2015

kofi123 said:
.

As for the other stations, as long as they can get a dedicated 100 Mbps internet connection, they should be good to go with the future system. PBS did a survey in 2013 that showed 70% of all PBS stations already could get a dedicated 100 Mbps internet connection to use with a new delivery system. I suspect the percentage may have gone up slightly since then, and may go up some more by next year as more and more businesses get easy access to 100 Mbps and beyond (past 1 Gbps) internet speeds.

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Its one thing to have a 100Mbps download speed but if its capped like Comcast does then running a 24/7 live stream will go through that in a matter of days. An internet connection is also more likely to go down compared to a unidirectional satellite feed.

osu1991 · Mar 25, 2015

Randamin said:
Its one thing to have a 100Mbps download speed but if its capped like Comcast does then running a 24/7 live stream will go through that in a matter of days. An internet connection is also more likely to go down compared to a unidirectional satellite feed.

They are talking commercial use not a capped consumer account.

FaT Air · Mar 25, 2015

Government or PBS saying

"Given that lower-cost alternatives to receive PBS broadcasts are available to current big dish households, Congress should repeal the clear feed requirement. "

Isn't referring to the consumer. They are referencing themselves. They don't give a crap about how much it's going to cost you.

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