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I was thinking about getting Tivo for OTA but I'm not sure anymore.

tdillon said:

They list the TiVo HD XL DVR as having dual tuners, but this is only true if you get multiple CableCARD decoders from your cable company. The Dish 722 has THREE tuners.

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There are two tuners regardless of cable cards, the only way to lose access to one of the tuners is to install only one single stream cable card. No cards, two single stream cards or a multistream card allows both to work.

kb7oeb said:

There are two tuners regardless of cable cards, the only way to lose access to one of the tuners is to install only one single stream cable card. No cards, two single stream cards or a multistream card allows both to work.

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Really it is four tuners. There are two cable (analog/QAM) tuners and two OTA (analog/ATSC) tuners. You can record from any two at once. You lose QAM on the 2nd tuner if you only have a card that can decrypt one stream. I don't know for sure if you lose analog or not. If it was smart it would still record any clear QAM with the 2nd tuner, but I doubt it is that smart. I don't have cable any longer so I can't test it.

In any OTA/cable/subscription scenario the box will have 3 tuners and be able to record off two while playing back previously recorded content. Also it will transfer via MRV or off the 'net while recording / playing back.

There are two tuners that support NTSC,QAM and 8VSB

memo90061 said:

I was thinking about getting Tivo for OTA but I'm not sure anymore.

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If it is OTA you need, then go with the upcoming 722K or 922 Duo. The only thing I can say that is "value added" or superior about the Tivo (Series 3) is that the broadband selections are much better. I do love getting The Onion downloaded along with CNET and some others. I did download 2 things from Amazon.com. Other than that, the Tivo is OK, but Dish DVR's (522 to 922) are superior in just about every other way. I find Tivo's lack of PIP quite annoying, and when you toggle between 2 channels, the buffer dumps to live, and that is annoying as well. Also, the Tivo Menu is more cumbersome than Dish's Menu. With Dish you can press a corresponding number and to through the menus much faster. Also, no Picture when you enter any of the Tivo menus, also annoying. Those are just a few things that I don't like about the Tivo.

However, I am not bashing it. Tivo is still pretty good and is most likely a much superior alternative to cable branded and OTA DVR's. In fact, Echostars MyPal DVR is a stripped down version of the best Dish DVR's, and Tivo seems superior when compared to that unit. Of Course, the lack of monthly fee is a great incentive to put up with what my be an inferior Pal DVR.

Also the Tivo addition of the external HDD is VERY restrictive. ONLY one model of the WD My DVR Extender certified by Tivo will work, and it must be connected and powered to the Tivo AT ALL TIMES. It records directly to the HDD and all recordings are integrated, giving the experience of 1 HDD. However, if you disconnect the external HDD, you will lose all your recordings as Tivo will reformat it. This is how it designed. So, in other words, no multiple external HDD support as with Dish. There is a process you must initiate using the software (via the menus) that will allow you to prepare the unit for a momentary loss of power or the external HDD should you need to physically move your unit to another room. And no, the external HDD cannot be disconnected, then re-connected to another Tivo unit. In other words, the external HDD is FOREVER MARRIED to that one Tivo unit, excepting for disconnecting the HDD, then reconnecting it to a different Tivo unit that will reformat it, lose your recordings, but now you have a fresh HDD for that other unit. I hope that wasn't complicated.

Again, overall, Tivo Series 3 (HD and HD XL have the same menus and functionality) compared to 722 has the 722 the winner, in my book

The Tivo tuners are independent, if I understand what you want you just need to hit the Live button to switch tuners. The channel you left on the other tuner will keep buffering and you can even flip channels without losing that other buffer.

The biggest advantage the Tivo has on hard drives is that you can upgrade the internal drive. It is possible to attach 3rd party drives externally but it does require opening the unit and using free software to marry the drives, once you are to that point you might as well just replace the internal drive. I've never heard of preparing the external drive for disconnection, if the drive is not connected on boot the tivo will prompt you to connect the drive or delete any recordings that were on the external or spanned drives.

Dish's USB archiving feature is superior except for lacking the ability to have new recordings go to the USB drive if the internal if full.

I agree about the menu system being slow and some what outdated. I can live with the menus, the thing that needs the biggest overhaul is the EPG, its slow, fills the screen and has no option for Picture in Guide.

If you are going OTA only comparing Tivo with a 722 is an apples and oranges comparison because you can not use a 722 without a subcription to at least locals. To get a 722k for OTA+Dish LIL you would need to buy it outright and subscribe to locals only. I believe dish offers a local only bundle (need locals for guide) for $9.99, add in no HD fee ($5) and DVR fee ($6) you are looking at $20.99 a month.

Tivo vs DTV Pal DVR is a better comparison. Tivo has a lot more features but maybe not enough to justify the $350 to $450 price difference. The DTV Pal DVR doesn't support name base recordings, its very similar to the old 50x DVRs if you ever used one.