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Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion
The Electronics Freedom Foundation (EFF) is sticking up for us legit FTA customers and has blocked a request by Echostar for the records of everyone who ever purchased a Coolsat receiver.

I am a proud member of the EFF and THANK THEM on behalf of all SatelliteGuys members who aim to watch LEGAL television!

Court Protects Privacy of Satellite Receiver Owners



Legal Analysis by Fred von Lohmann

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/09/court-protects-privacy-satellite-receiver-owners

Last month, EFF filed an amicus brief in Echostar v. Freetech, where Echostar sought the identities of every consumer who purchased a Freetech "CoolSat" free-to-air (FTA) satellite receiver during the past five years. EFF argued that this demand, issued in discovery in a lawsuit between Echostar and Freetech, represented an unwarranted intrusion into the privacy of individual consumers. Today, the court agreed, issuing an order blocking Echostar's subpoenas.

The ruling potentially sets an important precedent, as it represents the first time a federal court has explicitly rejected a third-party subpoena on the basis of the privacy interests of nonparty consumers.

Echostar is the company behind the DISH satellite TV service. Freetech makes receivers for unencrypted, free-to-air satellite transmissions (there are many free, unencrypted satellite channels). In December 2007, Echostar sued Freetech, alleging that the Freetech CoolSat receiver was specifically designed for after-market modification to enable unauthorized reception of DISH programming. According to Echostar, Freetech "sold thousands of these FTA Receivers to consumer pirates for the sole purpose of circumventing [Echostar]'s Security System."

In the course of discovery, Echostar sent subpoenas to the distributors of CoolSat receivers, demanding that they hand over their customer lists, including the name, address, email address, and purchase details for every person to have purchased a CoolSat receiver over the past 5 years.

As EFF explained in its amicus brief, these subpoenas represent a serious intrusion into the privacy of legitimate purchasers of these FTA receivers. Not only would it be an intrusion to be contacted by Echostar about a device you purchased months or years ago, but other satellite TV companies have used customer lists to launch mass litigation campaigns against consumers. After DirecTV obtained similar customer lists in litigation in 2001, it sent more than 170,000 letters to individuals demanding "settlements" of $3,500.
In refusing to allow Echostar to obtain the CoolSat customer lists, the court specifically weighed Echostar's need for the information against the privacy interests of the customers whose information would be disclosed. The court expressed concern that "both those who purchase the FTA receivers for proper and improper purposes will be swept up in the process." The court went on to conclude that "the requests for customer lists, therefore, could lead to the perceived harassment of legitimate users and a concomitant chilling effect on the purchase and lawful use of Freetech's FTA receivers."
Kudos to the court for keeping the privacy interests of nonparties in mind as commercial litigants dispatch third-party subpoenas that would otherwise carelessly intrude into the lives of individual consumers.

Related Issues: Anonymity, DMCA, Privacy

Related Cases: Echostar v. Freetech
40 Replies · 6248 views
Scott Greczkowski
If Dish just secured their signal properly (like DirecTV did) there wouldn't be a reason to use FTA receivers except to watch FTA.

Yippie for the EFF!
R
If Dish just secured their signal properly (like DirecTV did) there wouldn't be a reason to use FTA receivers except to watch FTA.

Yippie for the EFF!


I wouldn't say that DirecTV secured their signal properly ( from a technology standpoint) There are some less than legit FTA receivers with ethernet connections that can get sky mexico (which uses the same CAS as DirecTV)

What DirecTV did with their mass mailing is put the fear of GOD ( or the fear of a legal $hit storm) into the hearts/minds of the people who can pull off a hack.

DirecTV has been constantly updating their CAS. New receivers do not come with Period 4 / D1 cards. I wonder why :)

While this win is good for us who are True FTA users it is also a win for hackers. :(
Stargazer
I wouldn't say that DirecTV secured their signal properly ( from a technology standpoint) There are some less than legit FTA receivers with ethernet connections that can get sky mexico (which uses the same CAS as DirecTV)

What DirecTV did with their mass mailing is put the fear of GOD ( or the fear of a legal $hit storm) into the hearts/minds of the people who can pull off a hack.

DirecTV has been constantly updating their CAS. New receivers do not come with Period 4 / D1 cards. I wonder why :)

While this win is good for us who are True FTA users it is also a win for hackers. :(

It will not be a considerable win for hackers since Dish Network is securing their signal with the Purple G3 card unless it is thought that it will quickly become hacked again by FTA receivers.

I didn't know that the DirecTv card was compromised, is that why they kept switching to a newer type of card/security with DirecTv so that the U.S. would not start hacking here after it was done with a FTA receiver in Mexico? When DirecTv goes MPEG-4 more and more then wouldn't that make them even more vulnerable to FTA receiver hacks that can get their service in the U.S. as well?
Hall
I didn't know that the DirecTv card was compromised, is that why they kept switching to a newer type of card/security...
Everything I've read indicates that no D* card made after the "football" cards have been hacked.
shultz
Everything I've read indicates that no D* card made after the "football" cards have been hacked.
I would bet that somewhere, somehow, somebody has done it! This satellite stuff for the "eye patchers" is just a game to them (just like computers & windows). What was made to be secure, someone out there will find a way to break it! And what really p**s's me off is it makes us true fta'ers look bad!!!
Pismire
Just makes me wonder if nobody in this thread has ever viewed tv via the "eye patch guys" why would you even care? This whole possible lawsuit should not pertain to you if you have never done it. hmmmm, makes one think.
Tron
Just makes me wonder if nobody in this thread has ever viewed tv via the "eye patch guys" why would you even care? This whole possible lawsuit should not pertain to you if you have never done it. hmmmm, makes one think.

DirecTV SUCCESSFULLY sued owners of smart card programmers who had NOTHING to do with modifying DirecTV cards. They don't even have to sue, actually. They just have to threaten to sue, and tell you if you don't pay them blackmail money, they'll take you to court. Even if you're innocent, you'll have to spend thousands to defend yourself in court. Those are the kinds of tactics these companies use. In my opinion, they're no better than the hackers... They're worse, actually, since they're stealing far more money than the hackers are.
Pismire
Thanks for the explanation and for not taking my message out of context. Amazing what corporate greed can get away with. But on a brighter note OJ is guilty, of course DTV already knew that. lol
Cadsulfide
DirecTV SUCCESSFULLY sued owners of smart card programmers who had NOTHING to do with modifying DirecTV cards. They don't even have to sue, actually. They just have to threaten to sue, and tell you if you don't pay them blackmail money, they'll take you to court. Even if you're innocent, you'll have to spend thousands to defend yourself in court. Those are the kinds of tactics these companies use. In my opinion, they're no better than the hackers... They're worse, actually, since they're stealing far more money than the hackers are.

Right on Tron!
Both Dish and DTV have enormous legal departments, not only to pursue pirates, but to squeeze consumers, suppliers, content providers,employees, and to fight Ala Carte programming initiatives. There is a lot of revenue to be made with lawsuits, the REAL bottom line.

Their problems are much like those the recording industies face with limewire and other music sharing sites. Their solution is the same, sue with a shotgun, fear will drive out the timid.

I don't advocate pirating, but I can understand it. When these guys sell a overpriced marginal product with few choices, someone is bound to try to find a workaround. Conspiracy minded folks would say DTV is behind the cracking of Nagra, and that Dish is working on cracking DTV's CAS. For some, the cat & mouse game of stealing signals, then breaking ECM's is it's own reward. Way too much of a hassle for most of us.

I'm please the EFF is being the vangard for those of us that wish to use FTA equipment for it's intended purpose. This is a great hobby, and we don't need Big Brother tactics from the major service providers.
dishcomm
Right on Tron!
Both Dish and DTV have enormous legal departments, not only to pursue pirates, but to squeeze consumers, suppliers, content providers,employees, and to fight Ala Carte programming initiatives. There is a lot of revenue to be made with lawsuits, the REAL bottom line.

Their problems are much like those the recording industies face with limewire and other music sharing sites. Their solution is the same, sue with a shotgun, fear will drive out the timid.

I don't advocate pirating, but I can understand it. When these guys sell a overpriced marginal product with few choices, someone is bound to try to find a workaround. Conspiracy minded folks would say DTV is behind the cracking of Nagra, and that Dish is working on cracking DTV's CAS. For some, the cat & mouse game of stealing signals, then breaking ECM's is it's own reward. Way too much of a hassle for most of us.

I'm please the EFF is being the vangard for those of us that wish to use FTA equipment for it's intended purpose. This is a great hobby, and we don't need Big Brother tactics from the major service providers.
Here's my take on this issue.
I do not pirate. I don not support pirating and to be brutally honest, while I know there are those who are FTA "testers", most folks who have FTA systems are in fact reciveing programming for which they do not pay.
I am firm advocate of the rights of Americans to take full advantage of the airwaves which by law ,belong to the public.
If the programmmers put their wares over the airwaves with the intent for subscribers to compensate the programmers for tjheir product so be it. It is up to programmers/ providers to install their security and update it as technoology advances If there are those who are smart enough to find a way around said security and are not in violation of statues, that's fina as well.
I equate this to Balckjack card counters. Those gamblers found a way to give themselves a better chance of making a profit while playing by the rules. Casinos have updated their systems to combat the card counters. JMHO.
GreatFTA
I would bet that somewhere, somehow, somebody has done it! This satellite stuff for the "eye patchers" is just a game to them (just like computers & windows). What was made to be secure, someone out there will find a way to break it! And what really p**s's me off is it makes us true fta'ers look bad!!!

Makes me wonder if this is a inside job... Someone who works with the company who knows the system and and send info out to some hackers that spread it out to others.
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 5 views
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 5 views
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68579 Replies · 2676133 views
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RaiderPower
Working My Way Back To You - The Spinners
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long_time_Dish
Find A Way To My Heart - Phil Collins
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dishstaller
Heart of Glass - Blondie
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long_time_Dish
Magazine - Heart
H
Harden My HEART-Quarterflash
SuperDish_Fan23
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!
29 Replies · 768 views
S
remembers when ATT had stores and leased home phones
dishstaller
My Wife was recently in an antique store and saw a rotary desk phone and it had one of those sticker overlays that had a business listed with phone number under each number on the dial. She looked closer and it had my old Radio Shack listed under the 8...she bought it. Pretty cool keepsake. Back then I rented vhs movies as well so I had it listed as Radio Shack / Movie Gallery and then the phone number.
Almighty1
I remember this in the news too...

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Bobby
I remember this in the news too...

That is a misnomer. In the old days you subscribed to telephone service. That included the telephone line and one telephone. An extension cost $1 a month extra. So that $14,000 over 42 years was for the service not the leased telephone. There is no way they paid $28 a month for 42 years for a leased telephone.
HIFI
2.webp
2.webp
anybody remember this disaster ?
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meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.
126 Replies · 2159 views
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rvvaquero
Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.
HipKat
Week Six Balls and Goats and WTH is Going On in The NFL??

Browns. 1st place in the North. Yup. Believe it or not

Chiefs. Undefeated.

Titans. Won a game ! .... Colts I know, but still.

Saints. Won a game after a while.

Steelers. Having the same season they always have. They somehow find wins on their way to an unceremonial 1st round exit. Mike Tomlin is proud.

Cards. Won a game without scoring a single touchdown

Broncos. How they manage to win games with the dogshit offense they have should be studied.

Bears. Caleb's back and so is their mojo.


Goats

NFC East. For the 2nd straight week no team from this clown show of a division won a game. Eagles are cooked without Hurts. Who's not that good anyway. Commanders suck, Dallas is well ..... Dallas and the Giants have no QB.

Ravens. Lamar is out (as usual). But still. Losing to the Browns is never ok.

Chargers. Still can't win.

Rams. So much for the powerhouse team. They are 2 games under .500

Seattle. Lost to the offenseless Broncos.
Y
Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.
Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.
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b4pjoe
Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.
Jerry made himself General Manager after he bought the team but make no mistake Jimmy engineered that trade. As well as a lot of others at the time.
rvvaquero
Jimmy Johnson is a football guy. Jerry Jones is a marketer (hustler).

When I see a football player get a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct (like taunting) in a close game, I often wonder what he was thinking. Was he thinking, I'm doing everything I can to make this a better team and help win a championship? Or, was he saying to himself, I want everyone to notice how great I am?

Johnson inspires one, Jones the other.
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S
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
I haven't posted in almost 17 years. Over the air, sat, offline, anything-but-the-internet is still one of my avid pursuits. Been playing with offline tv viewing and offline web browsing. I have great appreciations for this site still being here. It's so hard to find public communities that haven't sold out to social media company.
0 Replies · 21 views
SkyWatcher57
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion
Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank :rolleyes:
46 Replies · 1138 views
(((Garyd)))
Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank :rolleyes:
Take the cover off, show me pics of the board of the bad one and also the bottom of the board. I'm an old hardware electronics tech plus a satellite dealer; I fixed a lot of FTA and regular receivers. I may be able to fix it for you. And yes, they got hit by lightning; it's best to email me the pics at diamondsatellite@snet.net or call me at 203-232-8888. I give you a 50-50 chance of fixing it; I do have spare parts. my phone is a fliptop phone
Gary
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navychop
More room for the return of the Plague & Pestilence?

;)
S
Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank :rolleyes:
a good surge protector will help to.
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SkyWatcher57
Take the cover off, show me pics of the board of the bad one and also the bottom of the board. I'm an old hardware electronics tech plus a satellite dealer; I fixed a lot of FTA and regular receivers. I may be able to fix it for you. And yes, they got hit by lightning; it's best to email me the pics at diamondsatellite@snet.net or call me at 203-232-8888. I give you a 50-50 chance of fixing it; I do have spare parts. my phone is a fliptop phone
Gary
Hi Gary, still working on getting you those
Hi Gary, just saw this, ok, I'll grab some pics tomorrow and post them. thx
Still working getting you those pictures, nice weekends means yard work and fall prep, thanks
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k4otl
Anybody know how to add "hidden" audio channels like for 101 W Ku or 105W C band on these recvr's? I've exported the database file but don't have anything that will read or edit it.
cyberham
For 105W C, you scan in the Westwood tp normally. Then select the audio channel you want. Not necessary to manually enter. On 101W, you must manually enter.
TRG
TRG
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Now that I'm retired, obviously I have different health care insurance. I take 2 prescriptions. With my old insurance I didn't have to pay for either of them, now I do. It's not a huge amount but it led me to dig a little into the cost of prescription medications. I have been using Walgreens for the longest time. But what I found was that Walgreens price is 4.8 times more for one of my prescriptions and the other is 2.3 percent more compared to the lowest price pharmacy. If you pay for prescription medications you might want to have a look at trumprx and see if you can get a lower price.


Screenshot from 2026-10-22 15-43-53.webp
Screenshot from 2026-10-22 15-23-34.webp
11 Replies · 87 views
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comfortably_numb
I run them through several different providers to see who has the lowest cost

Usually it's Walmart or Sam's + GoodRx

Also...


You can also price them through the CareCard and WellRx apps.

Sometimes Amazon Pharmacy is cheapest.
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T
TrumpRx?!?

I went on Medicare recently (not an "advantage" plan) and my prescriptions at HyVee were very low out of pocket. The clerk said she was putting them on "Good Rx".
osu1991
I take 10mg Rosuvastatin (Crestor). I was paying $34 for a 90day supply at Walgreens last year when I was on Blue Cross. My Blue Cross premiums were going up to $1800 a month this year, so I switched to an Ambetter Bronze plan (I think that's a Cigna company) for $825 a month. I now have a $40 copay for doctors visits which is fine as I usually only see them once or twice a year, so a huge cost savings. My Rosuvastatin was going to go up to around $90 for a 90 day supply at Walgreens and even more at CVS or one of the local family pharmacies. Ordering online thru my insurance portal from Express Scripts it's $0.74 for a 90 day supply.
comfortably_numb
TrumpRx?!?

Scripts arrive in a gold paper sack.
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dishstaller
Usually it's Walmart or Sam's + GoodRx
I'm fortunate and don't take any medications. A couple years ago I had to take some antibiotics and used the GoodRx app. Went to Walmart and the person behind the desk knew me and told me to just buy them outright....the GoodRx price was a LOT higher. She said they aren't supposed to tell customers when they see they are being screwed.
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navychop
That's ok. I probably take enough for the two of us.

God knows what Bobby takes. Maybe so much they count as a meal?
:D
:devilish
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Bobby
That's ok. I probably take enough for the two of us.

God knows what Bobby takes. Maybe so much they count as a meal?
:D
:devilish
Actually I take just 2 prescriptions, Atorvastatin and Lisinopril. They cost me $6 each for 100 pills. Next year that will be nothing.
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