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mookeywee

Last reply Sep 19, 2004 · posted in Cable Television and Fiber Providers

stop lying

The other day a friend and I were discussing the differences between sat and cable. He has cable and really likes it/ He'd kinda like to have sat. that's when another friend stopped by and that's when things got interesting.

Me = well me
cableguy = friend who currently has cable
IT guy = networking guru

cableguy is interested in sat but appt manager said nope
IT guy said FCC says they can't do that but can place heavy restrictions on installation

Anyway the story got really interesting when I said that sat offer 100% digital signal while cable offers only some digital the rest are analog but they sell it as 100% digital (I started to sound like the DirecTV rep I talked to when I ordered my service). cableguy said that cable is 100% and DirecTV rep was lying.

That's when IT guy called us both idiots and told us this (hope I get it all right):
GEO, MEO, and LEO sats signals are analog
broaband coaxial cable (the type of medium not the marketing term broadband) signals are also analog. Then there was some stuff about broadband coax and baseband and well back to the story.

Niether one offers a digital signal. He says that the problem is that many people confuse the terms data and signal. In reality they both offer digital data modulated onto an analog signal (I think that's it).

As for the cable companies it's both. Cable is a "shared medium" or something. Then he got way too technical talking about channels and frequencies and trying to explaining why HBO is ch17 on a TV without a dig cable box and 300-to whatever with a digital cable box.

Do sat providers (talking about Charlie Ergen (sp) and other CEO bigwigs not retail monkeys) really think there aren't people that know better? Are they stupid? Are are they misleading the public with shoddy marketing tactics?

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charper1

Sep 18, 2004

In the case of D* and E* look at it this way; it IS digital from them to you.

You must know they are companies that mearly rebroadcast to you via their service.

They get a vast majority of their signals off of huge C-band and Ku-band satellites (analog as well as digital) just like you & I could directly.

Remember BUD? I still use mine. It still offers the best sound and picture, even the analog is better than DBS and cable and much cheaper subscriptions, BUT, it is not user friendly, it is expensive to startup, so companies gave up on their R&D and promotion of them because of these facts, thus it is dying for the END user. It is still the method of choice for the broadcaster, your cable and DBS companies.

OK, (the ultra simple speak) after they pull it off of the analog C-band, they compress it (now they call it DIGITAL) to make it smaller in size, add their security scheme and coding, and beam it to their satellite so they can direct it back to your DBS dish and IRD for decoding.

They are now the middle-man. They took a great, cheap product you & I could get ourselves, made a user friendly device and application to receive it, and are selling it to us at their markup prices.

This is all they have done.

Now that they have effectivly killed the BUD, they gear up to add more and more satellite locations, and keep pushing bigger dishes and more add-ons to get them. And trust me when I say they will place just enough services on each bird to "force" you to need the new gear.

mookeywee

Sep 18, 2004

I was talking to hime today and he called me a "tard". He said that he wasn't telling us that so that we could run out and try to throw everyone into a tizzy(sp).

He just thought that it was rather silly to compare cable and sat based on signaling techniques when they use the same thing (analog).

He did say that it was kinda misleading because satellite providers are claiming to have a 100% digital SIGNAL when it's not the signal that's digital.

Here's the definitions of data and signal that he gave meL

data - entities that convey meaning
signal - electric or electromagnetic encoding of data and are used to transmit data

Sat providers and some CATV providers apparently want to confuse the two. He even told me that TW cable commercials in the area don't claim to use a digital signal.

He did find it funny that sat providers calim to use something they are not. A 2.4GHz digital cordless phone use an analog signal to transmit data.

Like I said in my first post they seem to want to confuse the two

Even a computer chip after all it is relying on the ANALOG votage fluxuation to represent 1s and 0s.

IT guy says that's not really an accurate comparison. It's 1 and 0, on and off..

I asked about that and he emailed me this so that I'd copy it right:

"This person should really rather study the diference between analog and digital signaling. Analog signal are continuous wave forms that can be at an infinite number of point between some given min and max.
Digital signals are discrete waveforms. Between a minX and maxY the waveforms takes on only a finite number of values. On and off (1s and 0s)."

mike123abc

Sep 18, 2004

Well both Dish and DIRECTV use QPSK (and Dish uses some 8PSK). Yes it is an analog carrier wave which they change the phase to represent 4 possible states (8PSK has 8 possible states). They are discrete states representing 0-3 or 0-7, currently they transmit states 20 million times a second (QPSK, dish does 21.5 mil on 8PSK DBS satellites). No they do not flash the signal on and off to make it "digital", but you are just being difficult and nit picking to go off and say it is not a digital signal.

mookeywee

Sep 19, 2004

No they do not flash the signal on and off to make it "digital", but you are just being difficult and nit picking to go off and say it is not a digital signal.

Passed this along to IT guy. I wish he would just get on here and explain but he says he won't register just to post a couple of threads at a forum he doesn't plan to visit that often.

He simply says this:
No matter what type of data or how you compress or modulate it, it's still transmitted using an analong signal. Call it a quasi-digital signal (as someone apparently did) all you want but it won't change the fact that it's not a digital signal.

A digital cordless phone manufacturer, for example, can advertise all it wants to about digital this and digital that but in the end it still sends data from the handset to the base using an analog signal.

mike123abc

Sep 19, 2004

Your IT guy is just going off on a tangent I would not listen to him any more. Yes everything comes down to analog in the world. Even though he claims transistors are digital they are not. They do not really turn off... just ask Intel how they are handling the power consumption on chips when the off state of the transistors is almost equal to the on state...

It is a digital transmission on an analog carrier. Your IT guy does not want to register and post because he would be ripped to shreds, all he is doing is trying to flame and stir up trouble. Tell him to go back to school he should take some electrical engineering classes.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 56 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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dishstaller

Today at 9:31 AM

The Heart of Rock & Roll - Huey Lewis and the News

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harshness

Today at 10:01 AM

Closer to the Heart - Rush

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sdfntx

Today at 12:27 PM

Coming from the Heart - The Searchers

Bobby

Today at 2:35 PM

The Saints Are Coming - U2

dishstaller

56 minutes ago

Coming Back to Life - Pink Floyd

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teachsac

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply 56 minutes ago · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

Streaming Deals

Post any of the deals you find here.

Right now HBO Max has some deals if you pay for the year. $165 for the top plan again

https://www.hbomax.com/?utm_id=sa%7C22341445177%7C177853044713%7C308971700861&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22341445177&gbraid=0AAAAApH9fnqtQuqBPGgca7BX1wgna266G&gclid=CjwKCAjw9NjRBhATEiwA_p2J8VUJaL8sxqoVpTQ0kt5UeqM-jJ27ie0gfTJghoYOXD0Xn5Of5Z4q_hoCreAQAvD_BwE

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Bruce

Oct 12, 2026

AMC+ is on sale for $40 for the year, the no commercials plan.

For basically $3.34 a month, thought I would give it a try again.

Today is the last day for the deal.

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reubenray

Oct 12, 2026

Bruce said:
AMC+ is on sale for $40 for the year, the no commercials plan.

For basically $3.34 a month, thought I would give it a try again.

Today is the last day for the deal.

Thanks for spending my $$. I figured I would try it also.

navychop

Oct 12, 2026

Hmmmm.

Jimbo

Today at 2:37 PM

We should be coming into the Streaming Deals time of year

I will be looking for Yearly deals, not the 7 day trial or a 1 month deal like we had the last year or so.

Jimbo

56 minutes ago

I just managed to get 30% on Paramount Plus Commercial Free Yearly ... total was $99.
I haven't gotten the 50% off deal in a few years, so when she said $99, I thought that was a pretty good deal, that includes Showtime, which I rarely watch, but its there .

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 2:45 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Deck screws these days are pure garbage

Now first, I'll mention that the area of FL I live in has extremely high humidity and not a lot of wind so things don't dry out very well for extended periods of time.
I'm in the process of tearing down and rebuilding a pergola with a surrounding deck that I built 9 yrs ago. 90% of the deck screws are just sheering off at the head because the screws rusted out. These are the deck screws you buy in the 25 lb box at your lumber yard. Very annoying. So I just ordered some 316L stainless steel screws to use for when I go to rebuild it.

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AZ.

Today at 2:45 PM

dishstaller said:
Now first, I'll mention that the area of FL I live in has extremely high humidity and not a lot of wind so things don't dry out very well for extended periods of time.
I'm in the process of tearing down and rebuilding a pergola with a surrounding deck that I built 9 yrs ago. 90% of the deck screws are just sheering off at the head because the screws rusted out. These are the deck screws you buy in the 25 lb box at your lumber yard. Very annoying. So I just ordered some 316L stainless steel screws to use for when I go to rebuild it.

Screws are all crap, soft and useless! Sick of going through 3 to get one not to break, strip or shear! I aint that strong in my old age!

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 2:42 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Windows Weekly 1008

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVbYDMkb9XU

Direct YouTube Link - Windows Weekly 1008
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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comfortably_numb

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 2:34 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

Philo now offers discounted annual plan

Not sure saving $24/year is worth it unless you're a hardcore Philo user. I'll stick with monthly.

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Jimbo

Today at 9:41 AM

comfortably_numb said:
Not sure saving $24/year is worth it unless you're a hardcore Philo user. I'll stick with monthly.

View attachment 195247

$24 for the Year, would be more useful.

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Howard Simmons

Today at 11:16 AM

Jimbo said:
$24 for the Year, would be more useful.

But when you cancel you still have to watch until the plan runs out. With monthly you're done at the end of the month.

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Jimbo

Today at 2:30 PM

Howard Simmons said:
But when you cancel you still have to watch until the plan runs out. With monthly you're done at the end of the month.

Sorry, my point was the expense.

comfortably_numb

Today at 2:33 PM

Jimbo said:
$24 for the Year, would be more useful.

Philo's monthly price is reasonable, IMO, because it's still the cheapest way I'm aware of to get all the linear Discovery networks AND access to the Discovery Go apps.

Jimbo

Today at 2:34 PM

comfortably_numb said:
Philo's monthly price is reasonable, IMO, because it's still the cheapest way I'm aware of to get all the linear Discovery networks AND access to the Discovery Go apps.

I guess if it was something I used on a regular basis, I suppose.

meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:31 PM · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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HipKat

Yesterday at 4:27 PM

Balls
Bears. Took care of the elite Seahawks defense in a great performance.
NFC North. The entire division is 2 games above .500
Lions. Finally handed an L to that weird Minnesota team. Good vibes for Jack Campbell.
Pitt. Took the lead of the division convincingly.
Bengals vs Titans game. Fireworks game. Not sure it was a well-played game, but it sure was fun. JoeyB with 6 scores... and 4 turnovers.
Denver. They keep winning, man. Payton is a baller of a coach.
Packers. Thorough beatdown of the hard-to-read Panthers.
Jags. Demolished the hapless Colts.
Rams. The Super team finally wins back-to-back games.

Goats
Vikings. Took their first L. I know their D is insane, but their offense is setting back football to the 1950's.
Cowboys. Lost a 2-score lead vs. the Gardner Minshew-led Cards... at home. Embarrassing.
Browns. Playing for the division lead by scoring 6 points.
Bucs vs Falcons game. Setting modern football back to the ice age. Honorable mention to Tua Penix err ... Michael Tagov .... well, you know what I mean.
Bengals fans acting like Burrow just won the MVP after his performance. I get it. 6 scores is awesome. But. He also turned the ball over 4 times and required overtime to beat the 1-win Titans. So spare me the parade.
Chiefs. Not because they lost. It was a close game decided on the last play vs. a divisional rival on the road. That's always rough. But because of their whining over the CLEAR flag they got on the would-be winning play. They are used to getting the calls, and when they don't, they complain. Honorable mention to Mahomes for this quote: "I mean, at the end of the day, you have to go with whatever is called, but a lot of times in those big moments, the little stuff doesn't get called like that"... so you admit it was a penalty?? Just shut up, man.
Colts. They began the fire sale earlier in the week, and it showed. This team is cooked; Daniel Jones should go to the bench, and Steichen will be fired pretty soon.
Chargers. Wow. That's all I got.
Miami. For having the Pats sort of on the ropes and letting them go.
Eagles. Another team that should consider selling some assets. They are going nowhere.

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Mike0616

Yesterday at 5:59 PM

Watched the Colts wrestle defeat from the jaws of victory one more time. We need a coach. A REAL coach. Until then, thank the Lord for Sunday ticket. Imo, Jones isn't responsible for the losses, it's as group effort and he is the top QB on the roster.

Reactions: HipKat

Howard Simmons

Today at 11:24 AM

HipKat said:
Balls
Bears. Took care of the elite Seahawks defense in a great performance.
NFC North. The entire division is 2 games above .500
Lions. Finally handed an L to that weird Minnesota team. Good vibes for Jack Campbell.
Pitt. Took the lead of the division convincingly.
Bengals vs Titans game. Fireworks game. Not sure it was a well-played game, but it sure was fun. JoeyB with 6 scores... and 4 turnovers.
Denver. They keep winning, man. Payton is a baller of a coach.
Packers. Thorough beatdown of the hard-to-read Panthers.
Jags. Demolished the hapless Colts.
Rams. The Super team finally wins back-to-back games.

Goats
Vikings. Took their first L. I know their D is insane, but their offense is setting back football to the 1950's.
Cowboys. Lost a 2-score lead vs. the Gardner Minshew-led Cards... at home. Embarrassing.
Browns. Playing for the division lead by scoring 6 points.
Bucs vs Falcons game. Setting modern football back to the ice age. Honorable mention to Tua Penix err ... Michael Tagov .... well, you know what I mean.
Bengals fans acting like Burrow just won the MVP after his performance. I get it. 6 scores is awesome. But. He also turned the ball over 4 times and required overtime to beat the 1-win Titans. So spare me the parade.
Chiefs. Not because they lost. It was a close game decided on the last play vs. a divisional rival on the road. That's always rough. But because of their whining over the CLEAR flag they got on the would-be winning play. They are used to getting the calls, and when they don't, they complain. Honorable mention to Mahomes for this quote: "I mean, at the end of the day, you have to go with whatever is called, but a lot of times in those big moments, the little stuff doesn't get called like that"... so you admit it was a penalty?? Just shut up, man.
Colts. They began the fire sale earlier in the week, and it showed. This team is cooked; Daniel Jones should go to the bench, and Steichen will be fired pretty soon.
Chargers. Wow. That's all I got.
Miami. For having the Pats sort of on the ropes and letting them go.
Eagles. Another team that should consider selling some assets. They are going nowhere.

Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

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reubenray

Today at 11:49 AM

Howard Simmons said:
Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

So is Kelce.

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meStevo

Today at 12:14 PM

Just the same vilification as players like Brady experienced, a product of their success and largely overblown (just like them 'getting all the calls').

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Yespage

Today at 1:31 PM

Howard Simmons said:
Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

Well you see him more because he is incredibly talented. And yes, typically players try to spin things being in their favor. This isn't cricket where sportsmanship (except in Australia) is expected.

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zippyfrog

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 12:47 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

110/119 Listings Post 129 Transition (Updated 11/01/2026)

Over the past year I have been tracking the changes on Western Arc. The past 3 months have had a lot of changes that I posted in the other MPEG2 Western Arc shutdown thread. Now that 129 is (basically) out of commission, here is where Western Arc stands. This is just a national channel list, (no local channels) based off what I can see and what others have contributed. Thanks to everyone who has helped me come up with the locations of some of the channels – I would try and list all of you out, but I know I would forget someone! As has been suggested in other parts of the forum, it would be great to collect the spotbeam data for those who could contribute!

A couple of pieces of info:

Out of the 64 transponders between 110/119, there are currently 50 transponders that Dish is licensed to use. 22 are Spotbeams, 28 are ConUS transponders (14 transponders are licensed to DirecTV and Dish doesn't have access to them)
Those 28 ConUS transponders are divided as follows:
- 10 are dedicated to National HD channels (ESPN, CNN, Disney Channel, etc). Dish is maxing out at 16 HD channels per transponder (note – in an earlier post I said there was one transponder with 17 HD channels, that was an error on my part. When I double checked my listings, one channel changed transponders). Before the transition, there was a maximum of 14 HD channels per transponder.
- 1 transponder is dedicated to adult content
- 2 are a mixture HD PPV Movies/4k channels
- 3 are set aside for HD Sports channels that are only on for live games (NBA League Pass, the PAC 12 alternate channels, some PPV events, etc); 3 SD PPV Sports Channels are there as well.
- 7 are for SD and/or music channels. Dish is maxing out at 26 SD channels per transponder thus far on the SD transponders.
- 5 transponders on 110 I have no channels listed but Dish operates. (they are labeled as ConUS on my chart below) There are other things that could be on those transponders, like RV Distant Networks, internal testing channels, etc, that I can't see. They might be able to be used for additional content, but I am not sure exactly what is on those transponders.

There are two transponders that have lower than normal SD channels – 110, TP 21 and 119, TP 19. Previously those transponders contained the programming guides that get downloaded from the satellite when the receivers download EPG. I assume that is where the programming guides are still downloaded from, thus less channels there.

When I talk about number of channels on a transponder, all my numbers are unique channels – for example, channel 101 and 199 are the same channel mapped to two different numbers, but in terms of space, only takes up 1 channel worth of bandwidth on the transponder.

Finally, I have to give Dish a ton of credit. When it was 110/119/129, Dish had 82 transponders they were using – it took a lot to get it down to 50 transponders and figure out where all the pieces were going to go. What are the things they did to get there? Here are the things I saw:

During this migration from 129, Dish converted 7 ConUS transponders on 119 into Spotbeams – that is how they ended up fitting on all the HD locals that used to be on 129. (for those interested, TP 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 are the ones that used to be ConUS on 119 that are now Spotbeam)
Removed almost all SD duplicate channels that are offered in HD
Converted remaining SD channels from MPEG2 to MPEG4
There are also 2 subtle things that changed from the HD channel perspective
- At the beginning of the transition, Dish decreased the number of PPV Movie channels – prior to this transition the PPV channels HD PPV movies were 502-522; now they are 502-517.
- At the beginning of April when MLB, NBA, and NHL regular seasons were all going on at the same time and this transition began, there were a ton of games "joined in progress" for the HD feeds. That wasn't common since the days before the full time HD RSN's. The reason for that was prior to the transition, Dish had 4 transponders set aside for HD Sports – 2 transponders was the bandwidth set aside from the HD RSN's before Dish dropped the RSN's, then 2 transponders were for alternate channels. Now we are down to 3 transponders for HD sports.

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zippyfrog

Sunday at 4:47 PM

With the extra hour I had this morning, I updated the listings. Another month has passed, and nothing has moved off 110 to 119 for the national channels. I really thought those handful of transponders on 119 would have been populated with the national channels from 110, but no change.

Can someone who has a Hopper tell me if the 4k channels are still on 110 and if so, what transponder?

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Bobby

Sunday at 5:07 PM

zippyfrog said:
With the extra hour I had this morning, I updated the listings. Another month has passed, and nothing has moved off 110 to 119 for the national channels. I really thought those handful of transponders on 119 would have been populated with the national channels from 110, but no change.

Can someone who has a Hopper tell me if the 4k channels are still on 110 and if so, what transponder?

They appear to be on 110, transponder 8.

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zippyfrog

Sunday at 5:30 PM

Bobby said:
They appear to be on 110, transponder 8.

Thanks! I do have my listing correct then.

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zippyfrog

Yesterday at 5:11 PM

Dish has officially removed all the locals from 119 and they are all on 110 now. TP 02, 04, 06, 08, 10 were all functioning as Spotbeams as of last week, but now they are ConUS.

This means all 21 transponders that Dish has access to at 119 are now ConUS.

Reactions: charlesrshell

dishrich

Yesterday at 9:34 PM

zippyfrog said:
Dish has officially removed all the locals from 119 and they are all on 110 now.

Might be a silly question, but does this mean ALL 29 TP's on 110 are positively spot beams now?

Reactions: zippyfrog and charlesrshell

zippyfrog

Today at 5:20 AM

dishrich said:
Might be a silly question, but does this mean ALL 29 TP's on 110 are positively spot beams now?

Nope - TP 1-13 are still ConUS on 110. Which is crazy...there are so many different spotbeams on the new 110 satellite compared to the older 110 or 119. Now, someone can correct me if I am wrong on this - but aren't there two satellites at 110 right now? If so, it looks like TP 1-13 are coming from the old satellite at 110 and 14 onward are spotbeams on the new satellite.

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dishrich

Today at 12:47 PM

zippyfrog said:
Now, someone can correct me if I am wrong on this - but aren't there two satellites at 110 right now?

Hopefully nelson61 can chime in on this one, because I'm not sure, either.
I guess the thing I'm really perplexed about, is if there are NO more locals - at least on spotbeams - on 119, then how DID they cram ALL the locals on 110 & NOT have ALL those x-ponders in SB mode by now?

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Linus Tech Tips

Today at 12:42 PM · posted in Linus Tech Tips

Good PC Deals Still Exist!

Time for another AWESOME video from Linus Tech Tips!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAraNufcrW4

Direct YouTube Link - Good PC Deals Still Exist!
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store

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