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You miss my point again - the whole Oiler thing is because the joke was that the whole championship team came over... Santa, KRod, and Putz didn't come from the same team right? And once again, I was trying to list all the Oiler players that came to the Rags, so yes I would include Hudson.

I guess I'm just not making myself clear. That is the whole joke that is the Rags during the playoff drought. They had all these highly touted players and they kept signing them but they didn't find any success with them. There was a lot of individual high profile talent on the Rags, but as a team, that couldn't bring them the playoffs. Yes, you filled the Garden when you're good, and when you're bad, it helps to have the high profile players there to help fill the Garden. Also, the other thing - the criticism has always been that a large portion of that attendance are corporate tickets and not necessarily "true" fan based. That doesn't mean that there aren't the fans out there, but I don't think they are all at the Garden. That's not just Fishstick fans talking - there's always mention about how many seats are taken up by corporate sponsors and ticket holders that comp their clients with them. That's what happens when you are in the middle of the big apple.

There you go again bringing up about the Rags spending. Am I subliminally pushing that thought to you? Sure the Isles could have spent as much money but the Bullsh!t owners after Picket nickled and dimed the Isles down to a $14million payroll. I don't blame anyone by our past owners on this. But I was making the distinction that as much criticism that you can give that ass Dolan, at least he spends some money on the team and as a result, you at least get a team that that is watchable. Rag fans can't ever understand how it is to have a $14Mil payroll, but then like to point to Isles fans about how our fans suck. Hey, we hated our ownership more than anyone in the world, but those are the cards we were dealt, and obviously it effected attendance. Rightfully or wrongfully, homer fans or not, Rag fans have never experienced anything like that before. So, while I have not agreed with everything Wang has done, any Isles fan calling him out obviously wasn't around during Milstein/Gluckstern, and any other fan calling him out obviously has never had to root for a team on the brink of destruction. Wang, for better or worse, saved the team and he continues to try to save the team but apparently Hempstead Township doesn't give a damn about the long term future of their village.

So, you continue to criticism elements of the Isles that Isles fans have been questioning. Snow has been questioned for quite some time now but regardless of whether it's "our problem", that has nothing to do with our discussion. You keep thinking I'm griping about this and that - but all I've been trying to say is that the Rags and the Isles are in different places and different situations. Yet, Rag fans like you critique as if the Isles has had every opportunity to do the same, to which I agree. But the fact is that the Isles don't for whatever reason - and as a result, that is what you see on ice, and that is what is endured by the fan. So, as you sit there calling the fanbase as being horrid and terrible, all I can say is that you have no idea what an Isles fan has gone through. If you did, perhaps you'd be more understanding on why the fans are the way they are.

I didn't take issue with any other criticisms that you've made on the team - everything from management to ownership. It is what it is and we can't hide behind that. But when you take a cheap shot at the fans like that as being the reason why the Isles should move, then that is when your credibility gets shot out the window because you're letting your mouth speak without your mind. Never have I ever heard anyone use the fanbase, no matter how "frontrunning" they are, as a reason for a team to move, fold, etc. That is just pathetic.

Just because Redden didn't turn out to be what the Rags expected doesn't discount his assumed potential. Don't hate him because he was drafted by the Fishsticks. He was the Sens top 2 D with Chara. He's not a nobody with no talent. If you wanted that, you would have taken Bryan McCabe. But, I'm surprised that you would say that because I mentioned Redden as "talent" that my credibility is hurt. I don't think the Rags would be paying him $6.5m a year if they didn't think he was going to have greater potential then last year with the Sens. He's a name player and name players attract attendance.

And SabresRule, the Isles have made the playoffs 4 times since their playoff drought ended. Granted, they did not make it past the 1st round, but you were obviously trying for some more dramatic effect there apparently. Nice try - NOT.

Visitor said:

You miss my point again - the whole Oiler thing is because the joke was that the whole championship team came over... Santa, KRod, and Putz didn't come from the same team right? And once again, I was trying to list all the Oiler players that came to the Rags, so yes I would include Hudson.

I guess I'm just not making myself clear. That is the whole joke that is the Rags during the playoff drought. They had all these highly touted players and they kept signing them but they didn't find any success with them. There was a lot of individual high profile talent on the Rags, but as a team, that couldn't bring them the playoffs. Yes, you filled the Garden when you're good, and when you're bad, it helps to have the high profile players there to help fill the Garden. Also, the other thing - the criticism has always been that a large portion of that attendance are corporate tickets and not necessarily "true" fan based. That doesn't mean that there aren't the fans out there, but I don't think they are all at the Garden. That's not just Fishstick fans talking - there's always mention about how many seats are taken up by corporate sponsors and ticket holders that comp their clients with them. That's what happens when you are in the middle of the big apple.

There you go again bringing up about the Rags spending. Am I subliminally pushing that thought to you? Sure the Isles could have spent as much money but the Bullsh!t owners after Picket nickled and dimed the Isles down to a $14million payroll. I don't blame anyone by our past owners on this. But I was making the distinction that as much criticism that you can give that ass Dolan, at least he spends some money on the team and as a result, you at least get a team that that is watchable. Rag fans can't ever understand how it is to have a $14Mil payroll, but then like to point to Isles fans about how our fans suck. Hey, we hated our ownership more than anyone in the world, but those are the cards we were dealt, and obviously it effected attendance. Rightfully or wrongfully, homer fans or not, Rag fans have never experienced anything like that before. So, while I have not agreed with everything Wang has done, any Isles fan calling him out obviously wasn't around during Milstein/Gluckstern, and any other fan calling him out obviously has never had to root for a team on the brink of destruction. Wang, for better or worse, saved the team and he continues to try to save the team but apparently Hempstead Township doesn't give a damn about the long term future of their village.

So, you continue to criticism elements of the Isles that Isles fans have been questioning. Snow has been questioned for quite some time now but regardless of whether it's "our problem", that has nothing to do with our discussion. You keep thinking I'm griping about this and that - but all I've been trying to say is that the Rags and the Isles are in different places and different situations. Yet, Rag fans like you critique as if the Isles has had every opportunity to do the same, to which I agree. But the fact is that the Isles don't for whatever reason - and as a result, that is what you see on ice, and that is what is endured by the fan. So, as you sit there calling the fanbase as being horrid and terrible, all I can say is that you have no idea what an Isles fan has gone through. If you did, perhaps you'd be more understanding on why the fans are the way they are.

I didn't take issue with any other criticisms that you've made on the team - everything from management to ownership. It is what it is and we can't hide behind that. But when you take a cheap shot at the fans like that as being the reason why the Isles should move, then that is when your credibility gets shot out the window because you're letting your mouth speak without your mind. Never have I ever heard anyone use the fanbase, no matter how "frontrunning" they are, as a reason for a team to move, fold, etc. That is just pathetic.

Just because Redden didn't turn out to be what the Rags expected doesn't discount his assumed potential. Don't hate him because he was drafted by the Fishsticks. He was the Sens top 2 D with Chara. He's not a nobody with no talent. If you wanted that, you would have taken Bryan McCabe. But, I'm surprised that you would say that because I mentioned Redden as "talent" that my credibility is hurt. I don't think the Rags would be paying him $6.5m a year if they didn't think he was going to have greater potential then last year with the Sens. He's a name player and name players attract attendance.

And SabresRule, the Isles have made the playoffs 4 times since their playoff drought ended. Granted, they did not make it past the 1st round, but you were obviously trying for some more dramatic effect there apparently. Nice try - NOT.

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Whatever. I'm not going to say the same thing over and over again. You can continue to do so if you like. You should try the short version sometimes. Took me less time to get thru the Odyssey in high school.

Some former Oilers were on the Rangers. Big deal. Every team makes trades. That's a tuna fish fan rationalization. We won the Cup. Live with it.

1983!

Your 'corporate ticket holders' rationalization doesn't hold water either. Read hockey message boards. Fans of visiting teams are amazed at the passion at the Garden. At the circus tent...not so much. It's far from a corporate environment.

Ranger fans either don't know or don't care that Redden was drafted by Long Island. I forgot until you mentioned it. His assumed potential was when he played out there. His potential is gone. He stinks. Do you care that Doug Weight was drafted by the Rangers? (and traded to Edmonton)

Sabres' point was that the crud can spend the same amount of money as the Rangers the last three years. Your spending money rationalizations no longer apply.


Sandra

Some former Oilers were on the Rangers. Big deal. Every team makes trades.

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Exactly!

The Sabres, when they were really strong after the lockout, had traded for players from other teams.

Daniel Briere came to Buffalo from Phoenix. Chris Drury had already played in Colorado and Calgary.

Just because they weren't a homegrown team doesn't mean jack to me.

How about those early-90s Sabres teams? LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Fuhr- all Hockey Hall of Famers- came over from OTHER teams.

Wow you both really don't get it. I know I'm over verbose to the point that my eyes get blurred, but c'mon now. Obviously the point isn't people coming from other teams - DUH - the Isles have a bunch from other teams and got back into the playoffs BECAUSE of players from other teams. However that common sense on why I would create such a paradox to be hypocritical doesn't seem to resonate.

You're right though - I lost track of how long my posts were. Personally, I'm not a big fan of short snide quips that are written to sound witty. I'm more from the camp of explaining why I feel a certain way thoroughly. Not a good idea for message boards I'm afraid.

But regardless, Sandra, you epitomize the typical Rag fan for better or for worse and the bottom line is that yes, you won the Cup in the 90s and I could never take that away (for some reason you think that I'm bitter about the Rags winning the Cup. Once again you jumped on to something I never expressed.) Your team is better - but Isles fans recognized that we were going to stink it up months ago. Remember, the issue here that started it all was your 'fact' that the team should move because of the fans. Again to this point, I will continue to take issue with that and find that offensive to any team.

That being said, however, what the most amusing thing of all is how SabresRule continues to take shots at a team in this predicament when on my last visit to the Hockey HOF, I don't remember seeing a Sabres team etched on the Cup anywhere to be found. Coupled with the fact that #1, the Sabres and the Oilers continue to be the two teams that keep the Isles from being last in where an NHLer wants to play (and we're the ones with the lower attendance), and #2, not too long ago the team went through so much uncertainly of its own with the Adelphia fiasco and ownership - that you'd think you'd have an inkling of what the Isles are going through. LOL!

I mean, I'll take a shot at the situation of the Isles, which facilities are sad, pathethic and crumbling and with it's circus atmosphere of management. But, how eff'd up can the Oilers and Sabres possibly be if NHLers would rather play in Uniondale?

Holy crap, even this post is long!

Visitor, let me say some things:

1. I wasn't intentionally insulting your team. I didn't know how you'd see it.

2. I have nothing against the Isles. I really don't.

Visitor said:

Wow you both really don't get it. I know I'm over verbose to the point that my eyes get blurred, but c'mon now. Obviously the point isn't people coming from other teams - DUH - the Isles have a bunch from other teams and got back into the playoffs BECAUSE of players from other teams. However that common sense on why I would create such a paradox to be hypocritical doesn't seem to resonate.

You're right though - I lost track of how long my posts were. Personally, I'm not a big fan of short snide quips that are written to sound witty. I'm more from the camp of explaining why I feel a certain way thoroughly. Not a good idea for message boards I'm afraid.

But regardless, Sandra, you epitomize the typical Rag fan for better or for worse and the bottom line is that yes, you won the Cup in the 90s and I could never take that away (for some reason you think that I'm bitter about the Rags winning the Cup. Once again you jumped on to something I never expressed.) Your team is better - but Isles fans recognized that we were going to stink it up months ago. Remember, the issue here that started it all was your 'fact' that the team should move because of the fans. Again to this point, I will continue to take issue with that and find that offensive to any team.

That being said, however, what the most amusing thing of all is how SabresRule continues to take shots at a team in this predicament when on my last visit to the Hockey HOF, I don't remember seeing a Sabres team etched on the Cup anywhere to be found. Coupled with the fact that #1, the Sabres and the Oilers continue to be the two teams that keep the Isles from being last in where an NHLer wants to play (and we're the ones with the lower attendance), and #2, not too long ago the team went through so much uncertainly of its own with the Adelphia fiasco and ownership - that you'd think you'd have an inkling of what the Isles are going through. LOL!

I mean, I'll take a shot at the situation of the Isles, which facilities are sad, pathethic and crumbling and with it's circus atmosphere of management. But, how eff'd up can the Oilers and Sabres possibly be if NHLers would rather play in Uniondale?

Holy crap, even this post is long!

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Maybe your team should do what the Penguins did, threaten to go elsewhere, take tours in other cities, give a deadline, then get a new building.