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AcWxRadar
Last reply · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion
This request is just to solicit your honest opinion regarding a procedure to calibrate a motorized Ku band dish to the satellite arc.

I have read and believe in the recommendation from Tim Heinrichs (CEO of DMS International).

He has suggested and recommended an approach for aligning a motorized dish to the arc. Here is his statement in its entirety:

Tracking the arc with your SG2100
By Tim Heinrichs, HSD, SMM, MRD
CEO of DMS International
January 4th, 2008

Tracking the arc has always been one of the most mis-understood parts of satellite installations. The SG2100 is ingeniously built to follow the satellite arc PERFECTLY if it is properly set to do so.

The SG2100 has a feature called "Go to 0". It simply drives the motor to a position that should be "0" on the degree of rotation scale of the SG2100. For installation purposes, Go to "0" is a simple way of aligning everything in a nice straight line and should only be used for a starting point. If the "0" point is off, drive the motor using the manual buttons until it is at the "0" position on the motors degree of rotation scale.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Always remember, The mounting pole being perfectly plumb and the declination being set exactly on is the
foundation for good tracking. To make your mounting pole plumb you need a good quality level or other instrument that will give you a plumb reading.

Everything you need to know about declination is in the manual that came with your SG2100. Follow the instructions carefully and your declination will be correct. Correct setting of your declination is critical to how your dish will track the satellite arc. Set the declination and tighten the bolts. If you have set it correctly you won't need to move it again.

Now at this time you should have the motor and dish set on the mounting pole and all of the adjustments made carefully following the manual. Here's what I believe to be the best and most accurate method of tracking your dish. It simply gives you a way of matching the satellite arc in space with the arc your dish follows as your motor turns it.
After setting up the motor and dish you will start by pointing the dish south and snugging the motor to the mounting pole. Now motor to the east most satellite that you can get a signal on and adjust your elevation ONLY for best possible signal. Snug the elevation. Motor to the west most satellite and adjust your azimuth ONLY for the best possible signal. Snug the azimuth. Repeat this process until no improvements can be made in signal strength. Each time you make an
adjustment it should be less than the time before. If not, you are doing something wrong.

Of course this is the quick explanation. It will take you a while to get the hang of it and certainly longer to do it than it took you to read this.

If you are a installer doing this often and using the same equipment (same dish), take some readings in the "0" position with your angle finder on this now perfectly aligned motorized system. Take a compass heading of the dish in "0" position. Record the angle of the LNBF support. Record the angle of the motor tube. Now motor to the first satellite close to the "0" degree of the motor and record that setting.

Keep these recorded findings in and safe place and your next
installation will be a breeze. When you go to install your next SG2100 motorized system, simply plumb the mounting pole and motor to "0" position on the SG2100. By using the readings that you took from your first install, set the angle of motor tube and set the angle of the LNBF support. Now motor to the known degree of the satellite and you're
set. Just turn the dish and motor on the mounting pole until you get a signal. You should be very close to perfectly tracking the arc. Check your work using the method described above. You just went from a grueling hour or more of tracking the dish to a smooth 10 minute install.

This will work within a reasonable distance from where you took the first readings. If your service takes you more than 50 miles from the original site (where you took the readings) you may need to make some small adjustments. I certainly hope this helps you do not only faster installs of motorized systems, but more accurate installs.

Good installs are critical to avoiding service calls that don't pay. Faster installs allow you to make more money and be more professional.
Always do your installs on the ground whenever possible. Ground installs allow for better and faster access in case of service calls and they also avoid most dish movement that happens on roofs that tend to warp and buckle in changing weather conditions. A roof mounted dish that moves a fraction of a inch at the base can translate into a inch or more at the top of the dish. The next time you have a service call for a system that has signal in the day time but not at night
(or vice versa), check out where the dish is mounted. I'll bet it's on a roof.

Keep us in mind for your equipment needs. DMS International is the only exclusive wholesaler of the official SG2100. If it doesn't have DMS International on the box and on the labels, it's not the original SG2100.


I wish to recruit your advice, comments and critique of my personal elaboration on Mr. Heinrichs instructions.

I have not yet attempted this, so it is just theory at this point. Please listen to my idea and tell me if you think I am locked onto something valid.

My proposal is that you locate the nearest satellite to true south and set up your dish and motor for the best possible signal and quality level. Set the MOTOR LATITUDE and the DISH ELEVATION and the MOTOR AZIMUTH to fine tune this signal.

Then, (using USALS) motor the dish to a satellite east of your center position and pick out a HORIZONTAL transponder with a consistent signal broadcast. On this HORIZONTAL TP, adjust your DISH ELEVATION to peak the signal.

Next, motor the dish to a satellite on your western horizon and select a VERTICAL TP. When you are able to detect the signal from this VERTICAL transponder, adjust your MOTOR AZIMUTH position to peak the signal level.

Go back and forth between these two satellites and transponders and readjust the DISH ELEVATION for the best possible signal from the HORIZONTAL TP on the eastern satellite and adjust the MOTOR AZIMUTH for the best possible signal from a VERTICAL TP on the western satellite.

When you have peaked the signal from these two satellites, you move on to two new sats which are further east and further west and repeat the process. Adjusting the DISH ELEVATION to peak the signal on a HORIZONTAL TP to the east side of the arc and adjusting the MOTOR AZIMUTH to peak the signal on a VERTICAL TP to the west side of the arc.

Since there is no written or formal procedure that has been proven or adopted, I am wondering if this procedure might have any merit and be applicable in a generic or universal sense.

My dish is already aligned, so I really cannot test this procedure until I set up an entirely new dish and motor from scratch to prove if it works or determine how well it works.

I would like to request your honest opinions on my procedure. Does it make sense, is my approach logical and most importantly, does it work well?

Thanks everyone!

AcWxRadar (Gordy)
40 Replies · 7569 views
skysurfer
ok, I"m about 90% or better of the way there!

I think Tim's aiming instructions can be modified to do elevation at center arc and azimuth at either extreme sat - I don't think it necessarily has to be elevation at east extreme and azimuth done at west extreme. Center arc is very important as I found out - get that set right (and use the right due-south sat) and your arc should be good enough to find a extreme sat to the east or west in order to proceed to finer arc tuning.

I moved my dish a smidge west (polar axis adjustment), found AMC-5 with my signal meter, peaked up on elevation a little bit better just so I could help assure center arc would show up, then went to zero position and found my correct due-south sat of Anik F1R was waiting for me, then repeaked elevation for best signal and went back to AMC-5 and adjusted azimuth for best signal and now the whole arc appears to be fairly locked in.
It's fairly breezy now so the 120cm is bouncing around so my test of db s/n measurements will have to wait for a calmer day to see if I'm done or if more fine tuning needs to be done.

I'm sitting here amazed the angular difference between 2 deg spaced sats at center arc causes that big of tracking error! Using a sat 2 deg east of due south caused the arc to fall off after about 20 deg of arc on either side, while using true due south sat to peak keeps the whole arc in line.

Considering the results are better with my 120cm than with the 90cm dish, I think I"m fine. I"ll try it out for awhile as peaked and if I find any problem signals, I may go try some fine peaking adjustments to get the arc in better than I have it now.

I'll have to go hit up my c-band dish soon as I changed out its feedhorn and repeaked it a few weeks ago and did the same thing of mistakenly using AMC-15 as my due south sat instead of Anik F1R, so it may have its tracking arc slightly out of phase with the true c-band arc. A aiming correction should make things go from pretty good to great I would think.
AcWxRadar
ok, I"m about 90% or better of the way there!

I think Tim's aiming instructions can be modified to do elevation at center arc and azimuth at either extreme sat - I don't think it necessarily has to be elevation at east extreme and azimuth done at west extreme. Center arc is very important as I found out - get that set right (and use the right due-south sat) and your arc should be good enough to find a extreme sat to the east or west in order to proceed to finer arc tuning.

I have found that making the dish elevation adjustment at the due south or zero position of the motor is a better policy.

I have observed that if you try to adjust the dish elevation (I am speaking of an offset Ku band dish here) when positioned at any satellite east/west of center, gravity works against you.

The weight of the dish and LNBF and hardware tends to pull or twist on the mounting brackets/hardware related to the dish elevation and that allows the dish to fall or twist to the left or the right. If you make the dish elevation adjustment on either side of the arc, you might unknowingly introduce an azimuth error because of this.

If you make the elevation adjustment at dead center, gravity works with you and helps center and retain the square of the dish brackets or at least it doesn't fight you as much and it reduces these errors.

It may not appear to be much of an error when you are viewing the dish bracket, but overall it creates a very large change in the dish aim. The error is small at the source of the error, but it is amplified like a lever arm when it comes to the reflector pan aim.

Therefore, I don't like Tim H's recommendation in the light of this problem.

Radar
skysurfer
one more followup - today was a calm wind day so I popped in a few of my most visited sats.

USALS moved the dish to H2, AMC-5, G17, G19, AMC-21 accurately but for some reason was inaccurate on G18. I had to give G18 a few manual bursts east to get it at max signal.

I am thinking I might use USALS setting when the sats accurate and use the diseqc 1.2 setting when inaccurate (such as G18, do the diseqc 1.2 control unstead of USALS missing the bird every time).

If I can't do a hybrid setup, I might as well use diseqc 1.2 and my spectrum analyzer to program in each one. My dish is on arc with no obvious polar axis issues since USALS has hit 4-5 of them spot on going by signal strength on the screen, my tuning meter and what it looks like on my spectrum analyzer with no co-sat interference seen.

EDIT: something occurred to me. I could just edit G18's "longitude" in the USALS menu until it is spot on - so it might read 117.5 or whatever in the menu just for the USALS calculation for that satellite to work correctly.
Wescopc
EDIT: something occurred to me. I could just edit G18's "longitude" in the USALS menu until it is spot on - so it might read 117.5 or whatever in the menu just for the USALS calculation for that satellite to work correctly.
That is the way I do it - works great.
Bob
AcWxRadar
EDIT: something occurred to me. I could just edit G18's "longitude" in the USALS menu until it is spot on - so it might read 117.5 or whatever in the menu just for the USALS calculation for that satellite to work correctly.

I have had to do that on occasion with 74.0 W Horizons 2.

Every once in a while, the signal quality from ONN will drop on me but I can peak it back up by changing the satellite orbital degree in USALS. I change it to about 74.2 to 74.4 W and it is maxed out again.

A few days later or maybe the next week, it will change and I can put it back to 74.0 W. This is the only satellite I have to fuss with and it seems strange why it is doing this.

Radar

EDIT: I have to state that when the signal drops for me on ONN, it is still well above the threshold level for my Coolsat 5000 receiver. Normally it it 90-94%, when it drops, it is mid 80% range, so still excellent, but I don't understand why it is doing this. This does not only happen with my own installation, but at least two others nearby.
mjac
EDIT: something occurred to me. I could just edit G18's "longitude" in the USALS menu until it is spot on - so it might read 117.5 or whatever in the menu just for the USALS calculation for that satellite to work correctly.

That works for me only I used the method in the other direction on 72.0 west AMC-6.

Thanks
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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Take It as It Comes - Steve Winwood
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Take The Money and Run - Steve Miller Band
EatMyVolts
Run Joe -- Louis Jordan and his Tympany Five
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The Long Run - The Eagles
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Long Train Runnin' - The Doobie Brothers
meStevo
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Starting a thread klang !

After an amazing first 2 seasons and an 8 episode 3rd season still coming this year, season 4 has now been greenlit.

Keri Russell Wow GIF by NETFLIX
12 Replies · 1023 views
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K
Finished season 3 last night. Still one of my favorite shows.

Anyone else wonder if there might be something else going on with Callum? Seems to me he has too much access to Russian intelligence.
meStevo
One episode into season 4 that dropped today...

Jon Stewart Popcorn GIF
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meStevo
Renewed for season 5.
K
Finished 4 last night. Great stuff.

They do like to end each season with a Bang!
KAB
KAB
Finished 4 last night. Great stuff.

They do like to end each season with a Bang!
Great ending, but it ran in circles most of the season.
M
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
5 Replies · 210 views
Almighty1
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?
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M
I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?
I'm on H713 on the Hopper and P15403 on the Hopper Plus. It shows internet connection issues and doesn't finish loading the various services. I see the "loading circle going around. Sometimes I get a message saying that the service is having trouble loading my content and to check the internet connection.
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Almighty1
I'm on H713 on the Hopper and P15403 on the Hopper Plus. It shows internet connection issues and doesn't finish loading the various services. I see the "loading circle going around. Sometimes I get a message saying that the service is having trouble loading my content and to check the internet connection.
Did it ever work correctly before? Hard to say what the problem is. Usually for streaming, it will show the Dish logo with lines sweeping down to show downloading, never seen the circle issue. Did you try a manual reboot, red button reset, power cord unplug/replug to see if it makes a difference.
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S
Did it ever work correctly before? Hard to say what the problem is. Usually for streaming, it will show the Dish logo with lines sweeping down to show downloading, never seen the circle issue. Did you try a manual reboot, red button reset, power cord unplug/replug to see if it makes a difference.
Might be worth just to ditch the hopper plus. No issues here on h713
S
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
Buy a roku and dump the hopper plus you'll be better off. If you have a smart tv you don't need either one. No hopper plus here and no issues!!!
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
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