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Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Do you know of DISH / Echostar's plans for new satellite launches? I know DirecTV has one planned over the next couple of years. But, I am surprised that DISH / Echo don't. Instead, they seem to be leasing from Telesat and Ciel. I don't understand why they would not launch their own birds!

Thoughts?
21 Replies · 5412 views
D
Do you know of DISH / Echostar's plans for new satellite launches? I know DirecTV has one planned over the next couple of years. But, I am surprised that DISH / Echo don't. Instead, they seem to be leasing from Telesat and Ciel. I don't understand why they would not launch their own birds!

Thoughts?

DirecTV is also leasing satellite slots from others, as is Dish. I think Dish leasing some satellites (the birds) reflects Dish's long term plans of not needing them in the coming years (although the lease is for the full 15 years) and may represent a savings in costs, but these leased satellites are built to Dish requirements/specs for primarily Dish's needs, so it is really more of financial legerdemain that provides Dish with pretty much the same satellite had they owned it. The failed launch of AMC 14 is but one good example: although built and owned by AMC, it really was built customized for Dish. Keep in mind that Dish Network owns some satellites while Echostar owns the rest. Charlie is the spreadsheet king, and he is always finding ways to be more efficient. There is NOTHING wrong with leasing these satellites as they are built to suit Dish's needs.

Although Ciel 2 at 129 is a Canadian satellite leased by Dish, the bird has several spot beams that were designed for US coverage as per Dish's needs. The Canadian Govt. wouldn't allow a US sat at it's location (the Canadian Govt. is very protective of Canadian assets and "culture" to the point of being rudely anti-USA), while Mexico has allowed a US sat to be used at its slots. So, leasing a bird at a DBS Canadian slot was the ONLY solution and the Canadian govt. stipulated that the 129 slot MUST be returned for Canadian use for the people of Canada at a later date.

The Ciel 2 at 129 works out well as DBS power allowances has advantages, financial and technical, one being that the Canadian 129 slot is only 10 degrees from a Dish owned slot and satellite allowing for an elegant reflector solution of 3 LNBF's looking at 110, 119, and 129 for the Western Arc. It doesn't get much better than that, and it was a coup for Dish Network to secure the Canadian slot on Canada's terms. Leasing, payments over time can often be the better financial strategy for many households, as well. It isn't always best to spend all the dough, reducing liquidity just so one can "buy", especially if the long-range plan is NOT to need them, and this is DirecTV's plan, IMHO, as well, regarding the slots they lease.

Dish does in fact have satellites planed for launch. One is supposed to be this year, failed AMC 14's replacement at 61.5. I believe another launch to follow for the primary 119 position. and another the following year, 2012. I believe Dish stated in a quarterly conference back in 2009 that there were to average one satellite launch per year for the next 5 years, from 2009. Oh, yeah, they have one bird ready for launch and more on order. Don't worry about a thing. Dish will be fine. But the AMC 14 failure was a setback and is primarily why we don't have RSN's 24/7, IMHO, and the root of current challenges in the Eastern Arc. AMC 14 was an extremely sophisticated (steerable spots) and capable satellite with TONS of efficient capacity. Alas, it was lost. But things will improve for the EA not too long from now.
R
DirecTV is also leasing satellite slots from others, as is Dish. I think Dish leasing some satellites (the birds) reflects Dish's long term plans of not needing them in the coming years (although the lease is for the full 15 years) and may represent a savings in costs, but these leased satellites are built to Dish requirements/specs for primarily Dish's needs, so it is really more of financial legerdemain that provides Dish with pretty much the same satellite had they owned it. The failed launch of AMC 14 is but one good example: although built and owned by AMC, it really was built customized for Dish. Keep in mind that Dish Network owns some satellites while Echostar owns the rest. Charlie is the spreadsheet king, and he is always finding ways to be more efficient. There is NOTHING wrong with leasing these satellites as they are built to suit Dish's needs.

Although Ciel 2 at 129 is a Canadian satellite leased by Dish, the bird has several spot beams that were designed for US coverage as per Dish's needs. The Canadian Govt. wouldn't allow a US sat at it's location (the Canadian Govt. is very protective of Canadian assets and "culture" to the point of being rudely anti-USA), while Mexico has allowed a US sat to be used at its slots. So, leasing a bird at a DBS Canadian slot was the ONLY solution and the Canadian govt. stipulated that the 129 slot MUST be returned for Canadian use for the people of Canada at a later date.

The Ciel 2 at 129 works out well as DBS power allowances has advantages, financial and technical, one being that the Canadian 129 slot is only 10 degrees from a Dish owned slot and satellite allowing for an elegant reflector solution of 3 LNBF's looking at 110, 119, and 129 for the Western Arc. It doesn't get much better than that, and it was a coup for Dish Network to secure the Canadian slot on Canada's terms. Leasing, payments over time can often be the better financial strategy for many households, as well. It isn't always best to spend all the dough, reducing liquidity just so one can "buy", especially if the long-range plan is NOT to need them, and this is DirecTV's plan, IMHO, as well, regarding the slots they lease.

Dish does in fact have satellites planed for launch. One is supposed to be this year, failed AMC 14's replacement at 61.5. I believe another launch to follow for the primary 119 position. and another the following year, 2012. I believe Dish stated in a quarterly conference back in 2009 that there were to average one satellite launch per year for the next 5 years, from 2009. Oh, yeah, they have one bird ready for launch and more on order. Don't worry about a thing. Dish will be fine. But the AMC 14 failure was a setback and is primarily why we don't have RSN's 24/7, IMHO, and the root of current challenges in the Eastern Arc. AMC 14 was an extremely sophisticated (steerable spots) and capable satellite with TONS of efficient capacity. Alas, it was lost. But things will improve for the EA not too long from now.

There's a lot of good information in your post but there are also a few things that beg to be corrected. First, all the spotbeams on Ciel-2 are for use in the U.S. and the Canadian government stipulation for on the 129 W DBS slot was that at least 50% of the capacity had to be offered for Canadian use prior to launching the satellite. Since a major portion of the Canadian population has little or no line of sight for 129 W, there wasn't any Canadian interest in using this slot. Folks in the northeast U.S. have problems with 129 W and it only gets worse the farther north one goes. In addition, since Dish sells their receivers to the only satellite TV provider that uses DBS Bell TV, there may have been a deal that gave Dish use of the entire 129 W slot. In fact Dish has a deal with Bell TV for the 72.7 W slot since Bell TV has the lease with Telesat for the Nimiq 5 satellite at 72.7 W and Dish subleases from Bell TV.

AMC-14 was redesigned after the satellite manufacturer couldn't get FCC approval to use the 105.5 W DBS tweener slot. It did have steerable CONUS beams so that it could be used at other Dish slots but I do not believe it had spotbeams. The E-15 satellite was the replacement for AMC-14 and the E-16 satellite will augment/replace E-12 aka Rainbow-1. I also believe Dish doesn't offer HD RSNs 24/7 because their priority is on HD locals. The new requirements of providing a certain percentage of the local markets with all their HD channels by certain milestone date is also making Dish cautious about dedicating bandwidth to HD RSNs 24/7.
Hall
Instead, they seem to be leasing from Telesat and Ciel. I don't understand why they would not launch their own birds!
If you were to guess, what would you say a satellite costs to design/build/launch and then operate for the lifetime of the satellite ? I fail to see what's wrong with leasing, by the way.
S
Thanks for that reply. It was very helpful. You mention that "they have one bird ready for launch and more on order." Can you elaborate a bit on the ones that are on order? Thanks again!

(And a rookie question: is RSN = regional sports network?)

Dish does in fact have satellites planed for launch. One is supposed to be this year, failed AMC 14's replacement at 61.5. I believe another launch to follow for the primary 119 position. and another the following year, 2012. I believe Dish stated in a quarterly conference back in 2009 that there were to average one satellite launch per year for the next 5 years, from 2009. Oh, yeah, they have one bird ready for launch and more on order. Don't worry about a thing. Dish will be fine. But the AMC 14 failure was a setback and is primarily why we don't have RSN's 24/7, IMHO, and the root of current challenges in the Eastern Arc. AMC 14 was an extremely sophisticated (steerable spots) and capable satellite with TONS of efficient capacity. Alas, it was lost. But things will improve for the EA not too long from now.
S
Nothing wrong with leasing. (Case in point: outside of US, almost all DTH service providers lease.) Here is where I am coming from: (a) they clearly have a lot of orbital slot assets, (b) they have launched own satellites in the past, but (c) lately they have been leasing. So, does that mean (i) their orbital slot assets are not ideal or are at risk, or (ii) is it a temporary shift in strategy towards leasing while they build their own, or (iii) something else?

If you were to guess, what would you say a satellite costs to design/build/launch and then operate for the lifetime of the satellite ? I fail to see what's wrong with leasing, by the way.
D
Thanks for that reply. It was very helpful. You mention that "they have one bird ready for launch and more on order." Can you elaborate a bit on the ones that are on order? Thanks again!

(And a rookie question: is RSN = regional sports network?)

Echostar XVI, last I read press reports has completed construction and testing and is being, if not already, delivered for launch for what was supposed to be a March launch date, but these launch dates can be pushed back for a variety of reasons, but the bird should go up--assuming no problems--no later than the 2nd quarter of this year for the 61.5 slot. I do believe another bird is in construction from my memory of press reports that I termed on order, and I believe Dish/Echo have intentions of possibly another order or possibly try to re-purpose Echo XII, unless I missed something and they either sold it or did whatever with it. Some one here might know.
D
There's a lot of good information in your post but there are also a few things that beg to be corrected. First, all the spotbeams on Ciel-2 are for use in the U.S. and the Canadian government stipulation for on the 129 W DBS slot was that at least 50% of the capacity had to be offered for Canadian use prior to launching the satellite. Since a major portion of the Canadian population has little or no line of sight for 129 W, there wasn't any Canadian interest in using this slot. Folks in the northeast U.S. have problems with 129 W and it only gets worse the farther north one goes. In addition, since Dish sells their receivers to the only satellite TV provider that uses DBS Bell TV, there may have been a deal that gave Dish use of the entire 129 W slot. In fact Dish has a deal with Bell TV for the 72.7 W slot since Bell TV has the lease with Telesat for the Nimiq 5 satellite at 72.7 W and Dish subleases from Bell TV.

AMC-14 was redesigned after the satellite manufacturer couldn't get FCC approval to use the 105.5 W DBS tweener slot. It did have steerable CONUS beams so that it could be used at other Dish slots but I do not believe it had spotbeams. The E-15 satellite was the replacement for AMC-14 and the E-16 satellite will augment/replace E-12 aka Rainbow-1. I also believe Dish doesn't offer HD RSNs 24/7 because their priority is on HD locals. The new requirements of providing a certain percentage of the local markets with all their HD channels by certain milestone date is also making Dish cautious about dedicating bandwidth to HD RSNs 24/7.

I appreciate your corrections (why didn't you respond first :)) and forgot about the new sat already there at 61.5. My memory failed me on AMC 14 as I recall that it had spots according to press reports, but sometimes the press gets it wrong or I get it wrong from my memory, but I believe you. Echo XVI will go to 61.5 to augment (at least I got that right) as you said. Also, I later realized that the new bird at 119 is already there, so that was a goof, too.

As for 24/7 RSN's (here's my memory again) I believe Charlie addressed this on a Chat some time ago ( almost 2 years ago?) saying that it would be a few years out, after when they "launch a number of new satellites" before RSN's would go 24/7. It is a bandwidth problem but one they had planned to solve by 2012 even with HD must carry as an additional burden. They had a plan to do it all. However, with recent events at 77, who know what will transpire regarding RSN's 24/7.
Thanks again for the clarifications that's what makes the forums great.

I should add that I have stopped putting links to on-line press reports for a very long time now as there is a company actively suing people who post such links on forums such as this. All they do is scour internet forums looking for such things. They can do this under the DMRA and they have succeeded in forcing just plain working folk PAY to settle the suit. They sue even without the newspaper's or on-line press entities cooperation. The EFF is fighting them, but the way the law is, they can sue and get cash settlements, and it is all legal.
R
Echostar XVI, last I read press reports has completed construction and testing and is being, if not already, delivered for launch for what was supposed to be a March launch date, but these launch dates can be pushed back for a variety of reasons, but the bird should go up--assuming no problems--no later than the 2nd quarter of this year for the 61.5 slot. I do believe another bird is in construction from my memory of press reports that I termed on order, and I believe Dish/Echo have intentions of possibly another order or possibly try to re-purpose Echo XII, unless I missed something and they either sold it or did whatever with it. Some one here might know.

Everything I have heard about a launch date for the E-16 satellite has been for 2012 but it would be great for Dish is they were able to launch it this year. I have a great deal of doubts about E-16 being launched in the next couple of months because nothing has been filed on it at the FCC and other internet sites that keep up on future launches have nothing on their schedules for it. I was speculating that E-16 would be launched by SeaLaunch based on some sketchy information from another website. I could see Dish using the E-12 satellite elsewhere besides 61.5 W or as a CONUS only satellite because of the number of uplink sites needed to use its spotbeams.
mike123abc
Dish's number one concern right now is the roll out of all the secondary locals in LiL HD markets. They have a deadline by 2013 to get it done. It sounds like a long ways away, but since satellite building and launching is a many year process, this will be their focus. With added spot capacity on 61.5 and a new spot satellite for 77 they will have the eastern markets covered. The EA is the hard one since so many DMAs are packed so close together it takes a lot of spot capacity to cover them all.

National HD is going to take a back seat to locals for the next 2 years. WA conversion to 8PSK would help them the most to free up capacity since they need matching East/West capacity for nationals. WA is not getting any satellite soon, so the capacity is fixed right now for nationals.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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sdfntx
Take It as It Comes - Steve Winwood
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long_time_Dish
Take The Money and Run - Steve Miller Band
EatMyVolts
Run Joe -- Louis Jordan and his Tympany Five
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long_time_Dish
The Long Run - The Eagles
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ClarkGable
Long Train Runnin' - The Doobie Brothers
meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Starting a thread klang !

After an amazing first 2 seasons and an 8 episode 3rd season still coming this year, season 4 has now been greenlit.

Keri Russell Wow GIF by NETFLIX
12 Replies · 1018 views
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K
Finished season 3 last night. Still one of my favorite shows.

Anyone else wonder if there might be something else going on with Callum? Seems to me he has too much access to Russian intelligence.
meStevo
One episode into season 4 that dropped today...

Jon Stewart Popcorn GIF
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meStevo
Renewed for season 5.
K
Finished 4 last night. Great stuff.

They do like to end each season with a Bang!
KAB
KAB
Finished 4 last night. Great stuff.

They do like to end each season with a Bang!
Great ending, but it ran in circles most of the season.
M
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
5 Replies · 205 views
Almighty1
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?
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M
I have a DISH Hopper 3 (Software H713) with Hopper Plus (Software P15403). I have not tried streaming services but I primarily watch TVB Jadeworld international package which is only available by streaming and when I have an issue, I usually have to go to a non-streaming satellite channel first before the streaming channels will work again. What software versions do you have and what is the error message if any are showing on your screen? or is that Dish downloading logo just stuck and never finishes?
I'm on H713 on the Hopper and P15403 on the Hopper Plus. It shows internet connection issues and doesn't finish loading the various services. I see the "loading circle going around. Sometimes I get a message saying that the service is having trouble loading my content and to check the internet connection.
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Almighty1
I'm on H713 on the Hopper and P15403 on the Hopper Plus. It shows internet connection issues and doesn't finish loading the various services. I see the "loading circle going around. Sometimes I get a message saying that the service is having trouble loading my content and to check the internet connection.
Did it ever work correctly before? Hard to say what the problem is. Usually for streaming, it will show the Dish logo with lines sweeping down to show downloading, never seen the circle issue. Did you try a manual reboot, red button reset, power cord unplug/replug to see if it makes a difference.
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S
Did it ever work correctly before? Hard to say what the problem is. Usually for streaming, it will show the Dish logo with lines sweeping down to show downloading, never seen the circle issue. Did you try a manual reboot, red button reset, power cord unplug/replug to see if it makes a difference.
Might be worth just to ditch the hopper plus. No issues here on h713
S
Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?
Buy a roku and dump the hopper plus you'll be better off. If you have a smart tv you don't need either one. No hopper plus here and no issues!!!
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 1 views
Gary Toma
Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum
The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:
​
National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)
​
Additional tabs provide:​
OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders
​
Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8​

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions
2171 Replies · 946052 views
D
Weekly Analysis for 10/28/2026:
K
ElectionHQ mixes testing with BBC News, CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC, MSNOW, NewsMax and NewsNation

Some more reshuffles

Updating the TMSIDs for KSBI and KQCW to use the cable feeds with Thunder games instead of the OTA feeds

An additional commercial PPV channel is now on 9530
coolman302003
Monday 11/2 is a full slate for NBA League Pass as all 30 teams are playing and 14 out of 15 total games are on NBALP. Only one national TV game on Peacock/NBCSN (Thunder @ Cavs).

DirecTV is even having to use several MLB EI channels (from 745-748) and a NHL CI (770) channel to fit all of them in the guide close together. 5 games at 7:30 ET, 3 games at 8 ET, 2 games at 8:30 ET, 1 game at 9 ET, 3 games at 10 ET. Luckily NHL CI is light on Monday (3 games on CI).

DirecTV is providing both broadcast feeds for all League Pass games except Hornets, Magic, Bucks & Raptors that night. These are all teams that have local broadcasts via a OTA channel which is on spotbeams and have streaming deals (DTC) that are not exclusive DAZN teams which DirecTV just signed a deal with (à la Spurs, Grizzlies, Cavs, Pacers & T'Wolves). Its also very common that we don't get Raptors broadcast very often from TSN or Sportsnet Ontario on League Pass.

11/2/26 (MON) EASTERN7:00 PM7:30 PM8:00 PM8:30 PM9:00 PM10:00 PM
Peacock/NBCSNThunder @ Cavaliers
NBA League PassNonePistons (745) @ HornetsKings (755) @ Mavericks (756)Celtics (760) @ Rockets (761)Trail Blazers (764) @ Nuggets (765)Suns (769) @ Warriors (770)
Hawks (746) @ Pacers (747)Pelicans (757) @ Grizzlies (758)Jazz (762) @ Spurs (763)Raptors @ Clippers (766)
Nets (748) @ Knicks (751)Bucks @ T'Wolves (759)Heat (767) @ Lakers (768)
Wizards (752) @ Magic
Bulls (753) @ 76ers (754)
*No Hornets, Magic local broadcasts*No Bucks local broadcast*No Raptors local broadcast
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K
Only the Knicks, Nets, Wizards, Bulls, Celtics, Rockets, Lakers, Warriors, Avalanche, Sharks and Bruins feeds will be using remaps of 24/7 RSNs that night. The rest will be relying on the part time feeds, including the Nuggets, Blackhawks and Kings who will be on their alt/overflow channels, and MSG Western NY will be live on channel 635-1 to carry Buffalo area ads during the Knicks game.

The NHL Network alternate will be live on channel 215-1 with Red Wings @ Panthers for those blacked out of Golden Knights @ Bruins on the main feed.

The Thunder @ Cavaliers game will be on one of Peacock Game Pass channels that night for commercial customers, they'll also have the back to back U-Conn Women's and Men's Basketball. One of the part time feeds will also be in use for WWE Raw via Joe Hand promotions.
dtv757
I could be wrong but the only RSN we dont have is NBC SN Philadelphia .