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DishSubLA said:

except for those 100" white walls or motorized screens that are so common in living rooms today. Talk about the Wife Factor!

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gregleg said:

Seriously. I can't even get the wife to sign off on a projection setup for my mancave *that she never even sets foot in*. (I could probably do almost anything I wanted down there except for the "slip that into the household budget" part )

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mdavej said:

Native resolution has a lot of fans on the DirecTV side, but I can't figure out why. I could only tolerate it for a few minutes myself. I suppose they think it gives them a better picture. AFAIK, most displays simply scale instead of upconvert, so native on 480i will result in simply zooming on an already terrible picture. 720 is better, but I highly doubt the video processing in your average TV is better than the Hopper's. As others have said, all it provides is an excruciatingly slow channel changing experience and at best a false sense of better picture quality.

The poster that speculated native may be the reason DirecTV has slightly better picture quality is incorrect. DirecTV has better picture quality because it's higher resolution than Dish to begin with.

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jborchel said:

You might be right that the Hopper has improved the scaling over Dish's previous DVRs but I don't understand your last statement. How does Directv have higher resolution than Dish to begin with?

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DishSubLA said:

I think he is referring to the fact that for 1080i channels, Dish re-encodes it at the 1440X1080 HD approved standard and not the 1920X1080 resolution that is sent to MVPD's by the channel content providers. Some folks grumble about this slightly lower resolution, but it is among the approved HD standards (some OTA broadcasters are doing this, too). However, it is often bit rate, not necessarily slightly lower resolution, that can have a much bigger impact on HD PQ (DirecTV's Ka sats used for its HD channels have transponders with greater bandwidth than Dish's DBS Ku sats it uses for HD channels, so DirecTV has an advantage there). In other words a full 1920X1080 at a lower bit rate can look WORSE than a 1440X1080 higher bit rate. In addition, the Dish STB's can further take advantage of low bit rates and resolutions with software and processing before outputting to your HDTV that can provide a PQ that looks like it was sent at higher bit rate and resolution. Also, there are other ways of reducing the data needed on a xpndr or OTA channel that could also be worse to PQ than slightly lower resolution such as lower chrominance data, lower luminance data, etc., but the use of Turbo Coding (used by Dish for HD channels) can allow for higher throughput (more data) in the same limited bandwidth, thereby not having to reduce other picture data nor use as much compression than without Turbo Coding.

Also, one has only to view some of our LA OTA digitals to see how inferior the HD PQ is when local broadcsters are running an HD channel at about half the bit OR LESS, even at a presumed full resolution, rate to accommodate other multiplex (sometimes referred to as sub-channels) channels on the same stream, and KABC shoving TWO HD channels (at 720P with the 2nd HD channel at a noticeably inferior PQ that is probably at a lower bit rate, and it could also be at a lower horizontal resolution) and an SD takes it toll, especially since OTA broadcasters are stuck using MPEG2 (instead of the far more efficient MPEG4--more channels using less bandwidth with superior PQ--as Dish and Direct do) and an effective maximum 19Mbs bandwidth in which to cram all this. I have found Dish's 1440X1080 to be often superior to some of our big network locals I have viewed LIVE using OTA antenna via TiVo or DIRECTLY into my HDTV. Yes, FiOS would be noticeably superior at the full 1920X1080 at a generous bit rate, and I would love that in the perfect world (FiOS can't necessarily improve the inferior OTA being sent to it) but I've found that Dish HD running directly into my TV can be pretty impressive, and even more so with my AV receiver processing chip and a DVDO on another HDTV. I find it an acceptable compromise. However, I understand why some do not, and are irked by it, and I agree it ought to be full resolution for those fancy HDTV's we buy, but except for FiOS, nobody achieves that, not even most broadcasters. I will say that KCBS seems to be noticeable superior to ANY other LA OTA and I wouldn't be surprised if they are running full resolution at full bit rate. Keep in mind that while Blu-ray can provide around 30Mbs, I don't think there is any HDTV channel content provider running at more than 19Mbps per content "channel" to MVPD's. Once you start watching Blu-ray enough, even the best full resolution at full bit rate OTA starts to look pretty diminished and not so impressive, after all.

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DishSubLA said:

I think he is referring to the fact that for 1080i channels, Dish re-encodes it at the 1440X1080 HD approved standard and not the 1920X1080 resolution that is sent to MVPD's by the channel content providers. Some folks grumble about this slightly lower resolution, but it is among the approved HD standards (some OTA broadcasters are doing this, too). However, it is often bit rate, not necessarily slightly lower resolution, that can have a much bigger impact on HD PQ (DirecTV's Ka sats used for its HD channels have transponders with greater bandwidth than Dish's DBS Ku sats it uses for HD channels, so DirecTV has an advantage there). In other words a full 1920X1080 at a lower bit rate can look WORSE than a 1440X1080 higher bit rate. In addition, the Dish STB's can further take advantage of low bit rates and resolutions with software and processing before outputting to your HDTV that can provide a PQ that looks like it was sent at higher bit rate and resolution. Also, there are other ways of reducing the data needed on a xpndr or OTA channel that could also be worse to PQ than slightly lower resolution such as lower chrominance data, lower luminance data, etc., but the use of Turbo Coding (used by Dish for HD channels) can allow for higher throughput (more data) in the same limited bandwidth, thereby not having to reduce other picture data nor use as much compression than without Turbo Coding.

Also, one has only to view some of our LA OTA digitals to see how inferior the HD PQ is when local broadcsters are running an HD channel at about half the bit OR LESS, even at a presumed full resolution, rate to accommodate other multiplex (sometimes referred to as sub-channels) channels on the same stream, and KABC shoving TWO HD channels (at 720P with the 2nd HD channel at a noticeably inferior PQ that is probably at a lower bit rate, and it could also be at a lower horizontal resolution) and an SD takes it toll, especially since OTA broadcasters are stuck using MPEG2 (instead of the far more efficient MPEG4--more channels using less bandwidth with superior PQ--as Dish and Direct do) and an effective maximum 19Mbs bandwidth in which to cram all this. I have found Dish's 1440X1080 to be often superior to some of our big network locals I have viewed LIVE using OTA antenna via TiVo or DIRECTLY into my HDTV. Yes, FiOS would be noticeably superior at the full 1920X1080 at a generous bit rate, and I would love that in the perfect world (FiOS can't necessarily improve the inferior OTA being sent to it) but I've found that Dish HD running directly into my TV can be pretty impressive, and even more so with my AV receiver processing chip and a DVDO on another HDTV. I find it an acceptable compromise. However, I understand why some do not, and are irked by it, and I agree it ought to be full resolution for those fancy HDTV's we buy, but except for FiOS, nobody achieves that, not even most broadcasters. I will say that KCBS seems to be noticeable superior to ANY other LA OTA and I wouldn't be surprised if they are running full resolution at full bit rate. Keep in mind that while Blu-ray can provide around 30Mbs, I don't think there is any HDTV channel content provider running at more than 19Mbps per content "channel" to MVPD's. Once you start watching Blu-ray enough, even the best full resolution at full bit rate OTA starts to look pretty diminished and not so impressive, after all.

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