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dlhoppe2001

Last reply Jun 8, 2004 · posted in Old YAHOOGROUPS - VOOM! Archives

[VOOM] Question for Wilt (or anyone else who has the answer)

Are any of the HD "feeds" that VOOM receives from companies like HBO
or DiscoveryHD compressed in any way? In other words, do you start
out with the original raw uncompressed HD broadcast before
compressing it to send over the sat to subscribers? Or are you
dealing with an encode/decode cycle just to get the "feed"? If
the "feed" is compressed, what technology is used, and what is the
price (in PQ loss)?

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kafowler10

Jun 8, 2004

[VOOM] Re: Question for Wilt (or anyone else who has the answer)

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "dlhoppe2001" <dave_hoppe@h...> wrote:
> Are any of the HD "feeds" that VOOM receives from companies like
> HBO or DiscoveryHD compressed in any way?

Yes, all HDTV outside a HDTV is compressed. Discovery, HBO,
and everyone else currently uses MPEG-2 for their HD distribution.
With a few exceptions, the original feeds are generally <20Mbps.
There's no way one could fit an uncompressed 1.5Gbps HDTV feed on a
45Mbps satellite transponder.

> Or are you
> dealing with an encode/decode cycle just to get the "feed"?

If VOOM had the bandwidth, it could just remodulate the signal and
retransmit the original MPEG-2 source intact, without any extra
compression. VOOM does not have the bandwidth to do that (and even
if they did, it wouldn't be very efficient), so they re-compress and
mux feeds. So while StarzHD might be transmitted at 18.2Mbps, it
might be 16Mbps or less by the time it gets to your receiver.

Dish Network was known to remodulate their few available HD feeds at
one point, though I don't know whether they still do that. Comcast
claims to remodulate HD when their system permits (two HD feeds per
6Mhz slot on 750+MHz systems). DirecTV and many cable providers do
re-encode (recompress) just like VOOM. In many instances, they give
their HD channels less bandwidth than VOOM.

VOOM markets itself as a HDTV provider, so obviously they are not
going to do very well if their HDTV isn't as good (or better) as
that available from most other sources.

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kafowler10

Jun 8, 2004

[VOOM] typo (Was Re: Question for Wilt)

--- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "kafowler10" <kafowler10@y...> wrote:
> --- In VOOM@yahoogroups.com, "dlhoppe2001" <dave_hoppe@h...> wrote:
> > Are any of the HD "feeds" that VOOM receives from companies like
> > HBO or DiscoveryHD compressed in any way?
>
> Yes, all HDTV outside a HDTV is compressed.

That may be true, but the full line was supposed to be "all HDTV
outside a HDTV acquisition source is compressed." Even then,
broadcast products use various techniques to reduce the storage
requirements of HD.

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zippyfrog

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 24 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

110/119 Listings Post 129 Transition (Updated 11/01/2026)

Over the past year I have been tracking the changes on Western Arc. The past 3 months have had a lot of changes that I posted in the other MPEG2 Western Arc shutdown thread. Now that 129 is (basically) out of commission, here is where Western Arc stands. This is just a national channel list, (no local channels) based off what I can see and what others have contributed. Thanks to everyone who has helped me come up with the locations of some of the channels – I would try and list all of you out, but I know I would forget someone! As has been suggested in other parts of the forum, it would be great to collect the spotbeam data for those who could contribute!

A couple of pieces of info:

Out of the 64 transponders between 110/119, there are currently 50 transponders that Dish is licensed to use. 22 are Spotbeams, 28 are ConUS transponders (14 transponders are licensed to DirecTV and Dish doesn't have access to them)
Those 28 ConUS transponders are divided as follows:
- 10 are dedicated to National HD channels (ESPN, CNN, Disney Channel, etc). Dish is maxing out at 16 HD channels per transponder (note – in an earlier post I said there was one transponder with 17 HD channels, that was an error on my part. When I double checked my listings, one channel changed transponders). Before the transition, there was a maximum of 14 HD channels per transponder.
- 1 transponder is dedicated to adult content
- 2 are a mixture HD PPV Movies/4k channels
- 3 are set aside for HD Sports channels that are only on for live games (NBA League Pass, the PAC 12 alternate channels, some PPV events, etc); 3 SD PPV Sports Channels are there as well.
- 7 are for SD and/or music channels. Dish is maxing out at 26 SD channels per transponder thus far on the SD transponders.
- 5 transponders on 110 I have no channels listed but Dish operates. (they are labeled as ConUS on my chart below) There are other things that could be on those transponders, like RV Distant Networks, internal testing channels, etc, that I can't see. They might be able to be used for additional content, but I am not sure exactly what is on those transponders.

There are two transponders that have lower than normal SD channels – 110, TP 21 and 119, TP 19. Previously those transponders contained the programming guides that get downloaded from the satellite when the receivers download EPG. I assume that is where the programming guides are still downloaded from, thus less channels there.

When I talk about number of channels on a transponder, all my numbers are unique channels – for example, channel 101 and 199 are the same channel mapped to two different numbers, but in terms of space, only takes up 1 channel worth of bandwidth on the transponder.

Finally, I have to give Dish a ton of credit. When it was 110/119/129, Dish had 82 transponders they were using – it took a lot to get it down to 50 transponders and figure out where all the pieces were going to go. What are the things they did to get there? Here are the things I saw:

During this migration from 129, Dish converted 7 ConUS transponders on 119 into Spotbeams – that is how they ended up fitting on all the HD locals that used to be on 129. (for those interested, TP 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 are the ones that used to be ConUS on 119 that are now Spotbeam)
Removed almost all SD duplicate channels that are offered in HD
Converted remaining SD channels from MPEG2 to MPEG4
There are also 2 subtle things that changed from the HD channel perspective
- At the beginning of the transition, Dish decreased the number of PPV Movie channels – prior to this transition the PPV channels HD PPV movies were 502-522; now they are 502-517.
- At the beginning of April when MLB, NBA, and NHL regular seasons were all going on at the same time and this transition began, there were a ton of games "joined in progress" for the HD feeds. That wasn't common since the days before the full time HD RSN's. The reason for that was prior to the transition, Dish had 4 transponders set aside for HD Sports – 2 transponders was the bandwidth set aside from the HD RSN's before Dish dropped the RSN's, then 2 transponders were for alternate channels. Now we are down to 3 transponders for HD sports.

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zippyfrog

Yesterday at 5:11 PM

Dish has officially removed all the locals from 119 and they are all on 110 now. TP 02, 04, 06, 08, 10 were all functioning as Spotbeams as of last week, but now they are ConUS.

This means all 21 transponders that Dish has access to at 119 are now ConUS.

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dishrich

Yesterday at 9:34 PM

zippyfrog said:
Dish has officially removed all the locals from 119 and they are all on 110 now.

Might be a silly question, but does this mean ALL 29 TP's on 110 are positively spot beams now?

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zippyfrog

Today at 5:20 AM

dishrich said:
Might be a silly question, but does this mean ALL 29 TP's on 110 are positively spot beams now?

Nope - TP 1-13 are still ConUS on 110. Which is crazy...there are so many different spotbeams on the new 110 satellite compared to the older 110 or 119. Now, someone can correct me if I am wrong on this - but aren't there two satellites at 110 right now? If so, it looks like TP 1-13 are coming from the old satellite at 110 and 14 onward are spotbeams on the new satellite.

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dishrich

Today at 12:47 PM

zippyfrog said:
Now, someone can correct me if I am wrong on this - but aren't there two satellites at 110 right now?

Hopefully nelson61 can chime in on this one, because I'm not sure, either.
I guess the thing I'm really perplexed about, is if there are NO more locals - at least on spotbeams - on 119, then how DID they cram ALL the locals on 110 & NOT have ALL those x-ponders in SB mode by now?

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zippyfrog

Today at 6:07 PM

dishrich said:
Hopefully nelson61 can chime in on this one, because I'm not sure, either.
I guess the thing I'm really perplexed about, is if there are NO more locals - at least on spotbeams - on 119, then how DID they cram ALL the locals on 110 & NOT have ALL those x-ponders in SB mode by now?

Here was a comment by nelson61 last year:

nelson61 said:
EchoStar 23 (Conus beam) will still be at 110W so there can be some Conus beam coverage from 110W depending on how many transponders they use for the spots.

In the same thread, he gave all the kml files for the spotbeams to put on Google Earth, and it looks like there are a lot more spotbeams per transponder available than the old satellite. My gut is that there is just a more technilogically advanced satellite, and can handle more channels.

I would love an analysis of how many channels could be fit on all the spots!

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dishrich

24 minutes ago

zippyfrog said:
My gut is that there is just a more technilogically advanced satellite, and can handle more channels.

My only trouble with that explanation, is the fact that they are wasting at least 1 TP (TP 10, to be precise) on a local market (part of the Chicago locals are on that TP) that could be used for more CONUS channels (namely more HD!)

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 45 minutes ago · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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HipKat

Yesterday at 4:27 PM

Balls
Bears. Took care of the elite Seahawks defense in a great performance.
NFC North. The entire division is 2 games above .500
Lions. Finally handed an L to that weird Minnesota team. Good vibes for Jack Campbell.
Pitt. Took the lead of the division convincingly.
Bengals vs Titans game. Fireworks game. Not sure it was a well-played game, but it sure was fun. JoeyB with 6 scores... and 4 turnovers.
Denver. They keep winning, man. Payton is a baller of a coach.
Packers. Thorough beatdown of the hard-to-read Panthers.
Jags. Demolished the hapless Colts.
Rams. The Super team finally wins back-to-back games.

Goats
Vikings. Took their first L. I know their D is insane, but their offense is setting back football to the 1950's.
Cowboys. Lost a 2-score lead vs. the Gardner Minshew-led Cards... at home. Embarrassing.
Browns. Playing for the division lead by scoring 6 points.
Bucs vs Falcons game. Setting modern football back to the ice age. Honorable mention to Tua Penix err ... Michael Tagov .... well, you know what I mean.
Bengals fans acting like Burrow just won the MVP after his performance. I get it. 6 scores is awesome. But. He also turned the ball over 4 times and required overtime to beat the 1-win Titans. So spare me the parade.
Chiefs. Not because they lost. It was a close game decided on the last play vs. a divisional rival on the road. That's always rough. But because of their whining over the CLEAR flag they got on the would-be winning play. They are used to getting the calls, and when they don't, they complain. Honorable mention to Mahomes for this quote: "I mean, at the end of the day, you have to go with whatever is called, but a lot of times in those big moments, the little stuff doesn't get called like that"... so you admit it was a penalty?? Just shut up, man.
Colts. They began the fire sale earlier in the week, and it showed. This team is cooked; Daniel Jones should go to the bench, and Steichen will be fired pretty soon.
Chargers. Wow. That's all I got.
Miami. For having the Pats sort of on the ropes and letting them go.
Eagles. Another team that should consider selling some assets. They are going nowhere.

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Howard Simmons

Today at 11:24 AM

HipKat said:
Balls
Bears. Took care of the elite Seahawks defense in a great performance.
NFC North. The entire division is 2 games above .500
Lions. Finally handed an L to that weird Minnesota team. Good vibes for Jack Campbell.
Pitt. Took the lead of the division convincingly.
Bengals vs Titans game. Fireworks game. Not sure it was a well-played game, but it sure was fun. JoeyB with 6 scores... and 4 turnovers.
Denver. They keep winning, man. Payton is a baller of a coach.
Packers. Thorough beatdown of the hard-to-read Panthers.
Jags. Demolished the hapless Colts.
Rams. The Super team finally wins back-to-back games.

Goats
Vikings. Took their first L. I know their D is insane, but their offense is setting back football to the 1950's.
Cowboys. Lost a 2-score lead vs. the Gardner Minshew-led Cards... at home. Embarrassing.
Browns. Playing for the division lead by scoring 6 points.
Bucs vs Falcons game. Setting modern football back to the ice age. Honorable mention to Tua Penix err ... Michael Tagov .... well, you know what I mean.
Bengals fans acting like Burrow just won the MVP after his performance. I get it. 6 scores is awesome. But. He also turned the ball over 4 times and required overtime to beat the 1-win Titans. So spare me the parade.
Chiefs. Not because they lost. It was a close game decided on the last play vs. a divisional rival on the road. That's always rough. But because of their whining over the CLEAR flag they got on the would-be winning play. They are used to getting the calls, and when they don't, they complain. Honorable mention to Mahomes for this quote: "I mean, at the end of the day, you have to go with whatever is called, but a lot of times in those big moments, the little stuff doesn't get called like that"... so you admit it was a penalty?? Just shut up, man.
Colts. They began the fire sale earlier in the week, and it showed. This team is cooked; Daniel Jones should go to the bench, and Steichen will be fired pretty soon.
Chargers. Wow. That's all I got.
Miami. For having the Pats sort of on the ropes and letting them go.
Eagles. Another team that should consider selling some assets. They are going nowhere.

Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

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reubenray

Today at 11:49 AM

Howard Simmons said:
Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

So is Kelce.

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meStevo

Today at 12:14 PM

Just the same vilification as players like Brady experienced, a product of their success and largely overblown (just like them 'getting all the calls').

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Yespage

Today at 1:31 PM

Howard Simmons said:
Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

Well you see him more because he is incredibly talented. And yes, typically players try to spin things being in their favor. This isn't cricket where sportsmanship (except in Australia) is expected.

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HipKat

46 minutes ago

Howard Simmons said:
Mahomes is the biggest cry baby I have ever seen. He thinks he's privileged or something.

He wants to be Brady

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HipKat

45 minutes ago

meStevo said:
Just the same vilification as players like Brady experienced, a product of their success and largely overblown (just like them 'getting all the calls').

The only people who deny what Brady got from the officials are Brady fans

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 55 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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dishstaller

Today at 2:58 PM

Coming Back to Life - Pink Floyd

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gms49ers

Today at 5:18 PM

Echos - Pink Floyd

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dishstaller

Today at 5:20 PM

Echoes in the Rain - Enya

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gms49ers

Today at 5:32 PM

Fool in the Rain - Led Zeppelin

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long_time_Dish

55 minutes ago

Mandolin Rain - Bruce Hornsby

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ewindowman

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 6:54 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual

Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th

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nelson61

Monday at 12:22 PM

Washington Post

SpaceX has held talks with Boost's parent company EchoStar in recent months about launching its own signature wireless service through a deal with the company, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
Musk, the SpaceX CEO, has discussed the deal personally, meeting with EchoStar chairman Charlie Ergen last month, according to the people. The potential deal may result in SpaceX acquiring Boost Mobile or SpaceX gaining access to its network, which it leases from AT&T and T-Mobile US, the people said.
Access to those lease agreements would be a coup for SpaceX. The back door would allow Musk to make a play for a U.S. wireless market that equity research firm MoffettNathanson estimates is worth $235 billion. But the proposed service may need consent from those carriers for the service to actually launch, the people said.

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Scott Greczkowski

Monday at 1:25 PM

nelson61 said:
Washington Post

SpaceX has held talks with Boost's parent company EchoStar in recent months about launching its own signature wireless service through a deal with the company, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
Musk, the SpaceX CEO, has discussed the deal personally, meeting with EchoStar chairman Charlie Ergen last month, according to the people. The potential deal may result in SpaceX acquiring Boost Mobile or SpaceX gaining access to its network, which it leases from AT&T and T-Mobile US, the people said.
Access to those lease agreements would be a coup for SpaceX. The back door would allow Musk to make a play for a U.S. wireless market that equity research firm MoffettNathanson estimates is worth $235 billion. But the proposed service may need consent from those carriers for the service to actually launch, the people said.

Can't remember where or who I saw predict this.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Elon soon own all of DISH / Echostar in the future.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 10:17 AM

Scott Greczkowski said:
It wouldn't surprise me to see Elon soon own all of DISH / Echostar in the future.

Again, why would Musk want a TV Service, specially one that is losing over a million subscribers a year.

Phone service…maybe, but not TV.

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Scott Greczkowski

Yesterday at 10:22 AM

Bruce said:
Again, why would Musk want a TV Service, specially one that is losing over a million subscribers a year.

Phone service…maybe, but not TV.

I know he wants TV. He wants to deliver EVERYTHING to EVERYWHERE.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 11:30 AM

Scott Greczkowski said:
I know he wants TV. He wants to deliver EVERYTHING to EVERYWHERE.

Again, if so, why would he want Dish/Sling of all the providers?

He could deliver anything without actually owning, for example, watching the Lions game in my Tesla Y on it's screen via the YT app, while on the way to my future in-laws on Sunday.

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rvvaquero

Yesterday at 11:31 AM

If Musk did acquire DISH, he would just convert it to use his own satellites to deliver it. Might be easier than creating a new startup. Change my dish out to one which connects to Starlink? Who knows?

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slow_poke_pete

Today at 4:33 PM

Starlink Mobile: 14 MHz Deal, No Phone Plan Yet [2026]

SpaceX agreed to buy up to 14 MHz of 800 MHz spectrum for Starlink Mobile. No Musk phone plan, price or coverage map exists yet.

shattered.io

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slow_poke_pete

Today at 6:54 PM

AT&T, Rakuten tout integration with AST SpaceMobile for D2D

AT&T makes first call handoff to satellite with AST SpaceMobile and prepares for beta service, while Rakuten targets commercial launch in 'near future.'

www.lightreading.com

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tparker

Last reply Today at 6:09 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

"Bonus View" Channel List

I was bewildered with all the new DISH TV "Bonus View" channels, so I put together a web page table with all the info I could find. It's at:

https://anythingpeaceful.org/dishtv/DISH_TV_Bonus_View_Channels.html

Here's a partial screenshot of the table, as sorted by Channel Name. (You can click on a column header to sort.)

If you have any corrections or suggestions, please post here.

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tparker

Sep 30, 2026

One Bonus View channel added today. And one correction (on my part):

One Removed:

My full list is at: DISH TV "Bonus View" Channels

BTW, not a Bonus View item, but there was a temporary channel 304 Spooktacular added, I imagine just for the Halloween season.

Thanks again to Pat for the many tips.

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tparker

Oct 21, 2026

Three new Bonus View channels today:

My full list is at: DISH TV "Bonus View" Channels

As always, thanks to Pat for the tips.

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tparker

Oct 28, 2026

Four Bonus View channels removed today:

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bnewt

Today at 8:20 AM

Why all the changes?

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tparker

Today at 6:09 PM

bnewt said:
Why all the changes?

I guess the Bonus View world is very dynamic.

And here's two more changes for you:

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 5:43 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Volcanic Eruptions

Continuing the Kilauea thread in the Pub here. Perhaps the Iceland one too next time there's remarkable activity.

Currently there is precursory lava flowing into the crater, leading to the next episode that'll probably start within the next day.

You can see the pace of inflation / deflation here. It serves as the primary predictor for when the expect the eruptions, which coincide w/ inflation turning into significant deflation and last for several hours on average with significant fountaining.

Monitoring Data for Kīlauea

For more information on how electronic tiltmeters and GPS receivers help monitor the deformation of Kīlauea volcano, see the HVO Deformation page.

www.usgs.gov

View: https://youtu.be/Uecu2seh4b4

Wife and I like the AfarTV feeds, for the discussion along w/ them, though they're otherwise just mirrors of the official USGS feeds.

View: https://youtu.be/iws3rh5vLAQ

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Foxbat

Oct 17, 2026

Oooo, quite the show now. All three vents have doming and overflows. The cone that built up around the North vent lost its upper quarter at 02:50 Oct 17 and is now spewing lava at a healthy rate. Don't know if I would say it's a fountain, but it's close.

edit: The USGS has called the official start of Episode 55 as starting at 03:19 HST Oct 17, 2026:

Alert Level: WATCH, Color Code: ORANGE 2026-10-17 13:43:56 UTC
HVO/USGS Volcanic Activity Notice

Volcano: Kilauea (VNUM #332010)

Current Volcano Alert Level: WATCH
Current Aviation Color Code: ORANGE

Issued: Saturday, October 17, 2026, 3:43 AM HST
Source: Hawaiian Volcano Observatory
Notice Number: 2026/H488
Location: N 19 deg 25 min W 155 deg 17 min
Elevation: 4091 ft (1247 m)
Area: Hawaii

Summary: Episode 55 of the ongoing Halemaʻumaʻu eruption began at 3:19 AM HST on October 17, 2026.

Volcanic Activity:
Episode 55 of lava fountaining in Halemaʻumaʻu began at the summit of Kīlauea began at 3:19 AM HST on October 17, 2026.

Fountain heights are relatively low at about 100-150 feet (30-45 m), and it is not clear whether this episode will evolve to the same heights as previous episodes. Continuous overflows from the vents began yesterday, October 16, just before 6 a.m. HST and transitioned into episode 55 fountains at 3:19 a.m. HST this morning. The current forecast is for winds are blowing from the north-northeast direction, which suggests that volcanic gas emissions and volcanic material may be distributed to the south-southwest direction from Halemaʻumaʻu.

All eruptive vents and lava flows are confined to Halemaʻumaʻu crater within Hawaiʻi Volcanoes National Park. Tephra fall from volcanic ash clouds is greatest within 3 miles (5 km) of the vents, lighter ash and Pele's Hair may stay suspended for large distances from the vents.

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Foxbat

Oct 17, 2026

Kīlauea seems to be returning to the "normal" eruption script, impressive fountaining from the North Vent. For once, the V2 Cam has the best overall shot:

The lava flows have covered a good portion of the Halemaʻumaʻu crater floor.

Foxbat

Oct 17, 2026

Looks like Episode 55 is over at 09:00 HST, just under six hours. The USGS said the fountains reached 720' or 220 meters.

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 10:25 AM

The USGS Kīlaeua Webcam #1 has been showing overflows and doming from the North vent overnight. Maybe the volcanic plumbing has settled back into its two-three week cycle of fountaining?

But I do miss the little cinder cone that broke up in the last episode.

Foxbat

Today at 5:43 PM

Sorry, I should have posted these earlier:

We're still waiting on the start of Episode 56.

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 5:12 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Intelligent Machines 895

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AzBMcXCMAc

Direct YouTube Link - Intelligent Machines 895
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 4:53 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Deck screws these days are pure garbage

Now first, I'll mention that the area of FL I live in has extremely high humidity and not a lot of wind so things don't dry out very well for extended periods of time.
I'm in the process of tearing down and rebuilding a pergola with a surrounding deck that I built 9 yrs ago. 90% of the deck screws are just sheering off at the head because the screws rusted out. These are the deck screws you buy in the 25 lb box at your lumber yard. Very annoying. So I just ordered some 316L stainless steel screws to use for when I go to rebuild it.

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AZ.

Today at 2:45 PM

dishstaller said:
Now first, I'll mention that the area of FL I live in has extremely high humidity and not a lot of wind so things don't dry out very well for extended periods of time.
I'm in the process of tearing down and rebuilding a pergola with a surrounding deck that I built 9 yrs ago. 90% of the deck screws are just sheering off at the head because the screws rusted out. These are the deck screws you buy in the 25 lb box at your lumber yard. Very annoying. So I just ordered some 316L stainless steel screws to use for when I go to rebuild it.

Screws are all crap, soft and useless! Sick of going through 3 to get one not to break, strip or shear! I aint that strong in my old age!

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telstar_1

Today at 4:22 PM

Well, isn't removal of screws intrinsically much tougher than drive-in, simply because over time they become more adhered to the wood, whether or not they actively rust? Possibly there could be less of that effect with stainless.

dishstaller

Today at 4:53 PM

telstar_1 said:
Well, isn't removal of screws intrinsically much tougher than drive-in, simply because over time they become more adhered to the wood, whether or not they actively rust?

I have seen that happen that not in this case. I had also used some screws from an old box I had that I needed to use up....didn't think much of it at the time. ALL of THOSE screws came out perfectly and had virtually no rust on them. The ones that you find at your lumber yard....those with the orange snap on lids were mostly rust. The problem with the heads sheering off was that I had to get my crowbar and pry each board up one joist at the time. Took a simple job and made it 1000% harder.

As for adhering to the wood...true story. Back when hurricane Michael hit, it almost took the weather vane off of the old milk barn behind my parent's house. I climbed up on the roof and only one nail was still holding it. Grabbed my hammer and tried to pull it out...wasn't budging. Grabbed a short crowbar (all I had access to) wouldn't budge. Ended up cutting the stupid nail so I could get the weather vane. Barn was built in the late 40s, I guess the nail had become one with the pine lumber used to build the barn.