522 wont work without the 9-Day EEPG on 110-TP29

[Witschey]

Witschey's rants and claims have me a bit baffled, but I'll stick with the 110-29 issue.

For any given "aim" for a few TPs to be affected, it's almost certainly a "knife-edge" attenuation issue. Moving the dish mount something like 6" in any direction will either cure it, or kill 110 entirely. If you can't make that happen, tough.

As for putting the EEPG on 119, well, if it were convienent, I wouldn't discourage them, but overall, we're looking at something like LESS THAN 1% of the customer base that MIGHT be affected. If E* has ANY reason at all to not do it, then they shouldn't.

BTW, this is being posted by someone that regularly rants about how bad E* is, but this is one case where the exception just might prove the rule.

Unlike you I dont make a habit of ranting about how bad Echostar is. In fact I think they are pretty good overall. I think the level fo expertise of their customer support department (both level 1 and 2) is very poor, and this time I had to complaint about the 522 because it has a bug which they didn't want to recognize as a bug; but other than that, I am pretty happy with them. If I wasn't I would simply switch over to DirecTV or one of the other providers.

Thank you to ALL of you for trying to help me solve the issue, but I need NO TROUBLESHOOTING help on this issue anymore.

I am 100% happy learning (AFTER starting this tread...otherwise I would have never found out) that from Mark Lamutt (whose post was originally a reply to a thread I started at DBSTalk) that:

"here's the real story about this, directly from the Dish engineers working on the 522:

There is a bug in the current 522/625 software that is keeping the timers from being defined after the 2-day guide is downloaded. This is a known issue and it is scheduled to be fixed in the next software release. For what it's worth, the 942 does not have this bug.

Once the new software has spooled, the 522 and 625 will once again work just fine and dandy with the 44 hour guide."

So, as you can see I wasn't really 'ranting and claiming' anything. The 522 unit has a software BUG, that Dish Network customer service (level 1 and 2) either didn't know was there (maybe the software engineers didn't tell them)...or they simply didn't want to admit was there.

In either case, I have been told (although I don't know him), that Mark Lamutt is a reliable source for information about Echostar since he almost sleeps at Echostar. Again I don't know him, but I trust that in the next software release for the 522 the issue will be fixed like Mark said. If that is the case the 522 recurring events will work as I want them to work; and that is the end of my complaint. So no need for YOU or Anybody else to continue to spend your time trying to give me tips on how to troubleshoot the issue with the transponders or with anything else.

What I suggest is that we gear this conversation towards the pros (and cons if you can think of any) of either copying or moving the EEPG (9 day guide) to satellite 119.

Please refrain from building your answers around my personal situation. That situation will soon be solved, so PLEASE just put it aside.

I want to know from those of you who have arguments to put the EEPG on satellite 119 (either in addition to the one on satellite 110 or instead of the one on satellite 110), and also from those of you who object.

My point of view is that is SHOULD be done, because there is people in Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands who would benefit from it; and it wouldn't hurt anybody in the continental USA if it were done that way.

 

[GetMeABeer]

Mark Lamutt: "here's the real story about this, directly from the Dish engineers working on the 522...This is a known issue and it is scheduled to be fixed in the next software release."

LMAO.

Sorry Witschey, but don't hold your breath.

That's the answer that E* throws out all the time for every problem their receivers have, but more often than not, it never gets fixed.

You see, since the 522 came out to the public, people have been complaining about software problems that should not be very hard to fix. But every time they make a software update, they either ignore the problems completely or fix a problem, but create a new one to take its place.

For example, I complained months ago (as I'm sure MANY other people did, too) to E* that for no reason the subtitles would just stop working on the 522. I was PROMISED that it would be fixed in a few weeks in the next software update. Like I said, that was MONTHS ago. I think there has been one or two updates in that time, but they never did anything to fix the problem. It's the same with a lot of other bugs and problems with the receiver.

Either live with it or switch providers, but don't ever believe what anyone tells you about when the next great software fix is coming.

 

[roadrhino]

Witschey's rants and claims have me a bit baffled, but I'll stick with the 110-29 issue.

For any given "aim" for a few TPs to be affected, it's almost certainly a "knife-edge" attenuation issue. Moving the dish mount something like 6" in any direction will either cure it, or kill 110 entirely. If you can't make that happen, tough.

Hmmm... This makes some sense to me, but only if there were some sort of obstruction. I rather doubt that in the middle of a prairie such a problem would be found. Again, I would be happy to be educated if wrong.

Perhaps our friend should attemt moving his dish a bit to see.

SimpleSimon, could it also be a LNB problem?

As for putting the EEPG on 119, well, if it were convienent, I wouldn't discourage them, but overall, we're looking at something like LESS THAN 1% of the customer base that MIGHT be affected. If E* has ANY reason at all to not do it, then they shouldn't.

BTW, this is being posted by someone that regularly rants about how bad E* is, but this is one case where the exception just might prove the rule.

Roadrhino

 

[roadrhino]

...
Thank you to ALL of you for trying to help me solve the issue, but I need NO TROUBLESHOOTING help on this issue anymore.
...

What I suggest is that we gear this conversation towards the pros (and cons if you can think of any) of either copying or moving the EEPG (9 day guide) to satellite 119.

Please refrain from building your answers around my personal situation. That situation will soon be solved, so PLEASE just put it aside.

I want to know from those of you who have arguments to put the EEPG on satellite 119 (either in addition to the one on satellite 110 or instead of the one on satellite 110), and also from those of you who object.

My point of view is that is SHOULD be done, because there is people in Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands who would benefit from it; and it wouldn't hurt anybody in the continental USA if it were done that way.

I don't have a dish DVR, but I would think that those with such DVRS out on the edge of the region E* covers might benefit from such a signal swap as you propose (EEPG+a few stations->119 and a few other stations->110). What fraction of people would benefit? What fraction of people would be hurt by this choice? I don't know. I tend to think that because folks in Alaska and Hawaii aren't in prime E*, they probably aren't pushing the use of this DVR for these markets. Correct me if I am wrong, but I rather doubt that E* would be selling this product to people they know can't use it fully.

Back to your situation. I would like to focus on it just one more time. E* will make their corporate choices in a way that (they believe) will maximize their profit. This could mean that they will never fix this issue in the way you think it ought to be done. They may never move EEPG and they may, in the future, require EEPG to run your DVR. It does seem to me that you can take some control of your issue by attempting to determine if there is a problem with your equipment locally.

So far in this discussion when people have suggested that you can swap LNBs, move receivers, move your dish, you've responded with something along the lines of "it is not just me, there are others in Alaska and Hawaii who have this problem too." This may be true, but waiting for E* to change things to your liking may be silly when you could just move your dish 6" and be a happy camper.

However, this is your choice ... you can choose to wait it out and not use your box (or not use it to its full potential with the EEPG info) until E* makes some sort of change like new software. I would probably grow tired of waiting myself. Shoot, I wired up a 2nd dish myself because I wanted 148 and wasn't interested in scheduling an appointment for 2-6pm on a Wednesday two weeks into the future. Perhaps this is just a comment from someone who wants to try things out himself to someone who isn't interested in testing at all so you should please feel free to ingore my comments.

Roadrhino

 

[Witschey]

I tend to think that because folks in Alaska and Hawaii aren't in prime E*, they probably aren't pushing the use of this DVR for these markets. Correct me if I am wrong, but I rather doubt that E* would be selling this product to people they know can't use it fully.

The 522 unit is being sold in Hawaii and Alaska. I think that when they launched the unit they thought that it would work well with both the EEPG (9 day guide) as well as with the 44 hour program guide; but something went wrong (some programming error) and the recurring events/name based recording features don't work with the 44 hour program guide eventhough that program guide DOES load into the 522 receive if one has the 522 unit connected to a satellite that does not have the EEPG (at the present time that means that you get the 44 hour program guide on every satellite except for when you are connected to the 110 satellite).

If they only wanted the 522 to work with the EEPG they would have designed the unit so that it would not work at all unless the 110 satellite was connected to the unit and the EEPG was downloaded.

So, since this units ARE being installed in places where receiving the 110 is not feasable (or it is extremely expensive, with dishes of $300 or more, plus installation), I think that they will fix the software of the 522 (as stated by Mark L) so that the NBR/recurring events work well with the 44 hour program guide.

Back to your situation. I would like to focus on it just one more time. E* It does seem to me that you can take some control of your issue by attempting to determine if there is a problem with your equipment locally.

I have spent considerable amount of time troubleshooting the issue before comming to this forum. Initially I only have one satellite dish with which I received the 119 signal. I was VERY happy with it and my 508 receiver; but I wanted the two tuner and NBR features of the 522 and I bought it. To my surprise the 522 didn't work well with the 44 hour program guide (like my 508 did) and I went out and bought a 500 series antenna. That one gave me the problem of the being able to receive transponders 1 to 21, but not 21 onwards..including NOT being able to download the EEPG which is sent by transponder 29. Then I decided that maybe I needed a larger dish, so I bought a 3 feet dish only for the 110 satellite. The SAME thing about transponders 1 to 21 working and 21 onwards not working. Then I asked a friend from out of state to bring his 522 to my home during a weekend and he experienced the same problem with 21 onwards not working on both the 500 and the 3 foot antenna. Then I took my 522 out of state and connected it to a 500 antenna that could receive 110 and 119 well; and my receiver also worked well. Then I replaced hte LNB on both the 500 antenna and the new 3 foot antenna; problem stayed the same. Then I replaced the coax cable on both atennas; problem stayed the same. The I realigned the antennas using a satellite signal meter and looking at the screen to make sure I got the strongest signal.

The only thing I haven't done is move the antennas to another part of the building because that is now allowed in my apartment complex; and I don't want to get into FCC vs local rules, vs tennant rule issues. So I have had just about enough and I am not willing to try anything else. As you can see I haven't just given up without first trying, but there is a point where you just put an issue to rest. Specially when you have finally received confirmation that the issue IS considered a bug and will be fixed.

If Dish fixes the 522 software so that the recurring events and NBR work just as well when the receiver has the 44 hour guide as they do when it has the 9 day program guide, I will be completely satisfied.

Sure, it would be nice to have the EEPG (9 day program guide), since it has more information, but I can live without it if the NBR features work. I am not going to spend more time troubleshooting an issue which has already taken so much of my time and interest level. I do hope that Dish will come to its senses and realize that moving the EEPG to satellite 119 will benefit more people. I know they take decisions based on economics, but I also think that they want more and more people to have DVR units and if having the EEPG on satellite 119 can serve the entire USA population, whether they live in Kansas, Florida, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Alaska or some other place is provably better for the purpose of selling more devices and customer satisfaction.

A few angry people can hurt the image of the company quite a bit, so sometimes things can't be viewed just from the eye of economics but need to be viewed from the eye of customer service....and movign the EEPG to 119 will NOT hurt the contigious states of the USA; it will ONLY benefit those who right now are not being able to use the EEPG.

 

[BFG]

ai yi yi, I've never seen so much text put into single posts in my life

 

[roadrhino]

I have spent considerable amount of time troubleshooting the issue before comming to this forum. ... So I have had just about enough and I am not willing to try anything else.

Yes, some peoples, they do write lots

Witschey, something doesn't sit right with me about your story. I'm not going to go into all the details about why, but when an installer volunteered to help you diagnose what was wrong with transponders 21-29 in your setup and you declined, saying you were happy that there would be new software for the DVR it struck me that you aren't so much interested in fixing your setup as getting your DVR to work without the EEPG info or getting the EEPG data moved to 119.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but it seems to me that if one lived in Atlanta one would want to receive all the programming one was entitled to and one would want to use all the features of the DVR ... in other words, one would want to fix one's individual setup.

That you bought a 3' dish to solve the problem (sort of an odd solution if one's apartment complex forbids you to move your dish ... buy a 2nd ... most apartments which would restrict you to only one location wouldn't be the sort that would want a new, considerably larger dish to be added) adds to my suspicion that you live in Alaska, Hawaii or somewhere that doesn't pick up the 110 signal very well.

I don't really care either way, but your responses just don't match up very well with what one would expect from someone in Atlanta who can't get 21-29.

I apologize if you are offended by this post, but I can't seem to wrap my mind around the idea of spending hundreds of dollars and tens of hours to pick up 110 29 but refusing to take help offered by others and insisting on doing it without the help of a professional and refusing to move the dish a foot in any direction (as per SimpleSimon's suggestion).

I wish you the best of luck with your situation ...

Roadrhino

 

[Witschey]

Issue appears to be solved.

Despite my hessitation to start troubleshooting the issue again, I followed the advise given. I moved the dish positioning a bit (in both horizontal and vertical position) and to my surprise I am now able to pickup all transponders, and I am therefore also able to pickup the EEPG. I guess the problem had to do with the fact that I was receiving the signal from Echostar 8, but NOT the signal of Echostar 6.

I have to say that TP 22 to 29 are much WEAKER than TP 1 to 21, which provably has something to do with the fact that TP 1 to 21 are on one Echostar 8, and TP 22 to 29 on Echostar 6. I don't know why Echostar 6 is received with less power, after all both of those satellites are supposed to have 250 watts per transponder.

But anyway, at least I can now get the EEPG and hopefully with this guide the receiver's recurring events and NBR will work properly.

Please NOTE that this thread started because I said that the Dish 522 would NOT work without the EEPG (9 day Guide). That statement is still 100% correct TODAY as it was when the thread first started. Dish Network has a BUG in the 522 that prevents recurring events, NBR, etc. on the 522 receiver from working properly with the 44 hour guide. So nothing has changed. Mark L. mentioned in a previous post that Dish Network engineering recognizes that as a bug and that it would be solved in the next software release. Hopefully it will.

Thanks to all for the tips in helping me get the EEPG to work on my 522 receiver. Now the task remains for Dish Network to fix their software to get it to work with the 44 hour guide.

 

[roadrhino]

Well, slap some glue on me and call me a postage stamp, it worked...

Glad things are going better for you.

Perhaps if you moved it a bit further your signal strength would be even greater ... but I probably wouldn't fuss with it if you are getting enough strength that the EEPG data can be updated often enough to work well.

I'm not going to touch the other issue ... whether EEPG ought to be on 119 to better serve some outlying areas, but if it bumps some programming from 119 onto 110, I would guess that some in those same outlying areas would be just as angry with that choice as you are now. E* can't win with this one unless they somehow push shopping channels onto the wings .

Roadrhino

 

[herzzreh]

"Again, I ask...are you 100% posititve the 522 only works on EEPG? And again, why hasn't someone in Alaska or Hawaii had issues?"

Hi,

Sorry to dig up the old thread but I'm in Alaska and I can confirm this.