722 OTA dropout threshold . . .

SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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Yup, I'm seein' the fall of DISH CS. Tonight I was having OTA dropout, 739 Error, all over the place. After "chatting" with a CSR it was determined that it was my local channels all do testing. Yeh, right during prime time. I called a couple and they are not and would only in the middle of the night.

I have a AntennasDirect C4 that is rated for 65 miles and the tower is 15 miles away. All my sets have OTA direct are getting 90-100%. The set that is connected to the 722 shares the antenna, the TV has 95% and the 722 has 72-75% even when the cable is connected directly. PLUS, since the L625 update the tail ends of recorded programs are getting cut off. This is new as of that update. Software issues?

Where on the % scale should/would one expect the receiver to drop the OTA signal?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks . . .
. . . fb
 
KAB

KAB

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Where on the % scale should/would one expect the receiver to drop the OTA signal?

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks . . .
. . . fb

Upper 50s to low 60s on mine...before antenna upgrade.
 
jscud

jscud

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Unless you are having OTA multipath problems. On some stations I have had momentary dropouts in the 70's. Also don't forget that OTA signals can be very inconsistent in quality. Cloud cover, temperature, humidity, even the time of day can affect the signal.

John
 
Yragha

Yragha

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Jan 24, 2006
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Had the same issue, error code 002 and I have a DB8 with signals in the high 90's on all stations.

It was suggested to turn to a strong OTA station when this happens to correct the issue and well, that didn't work nor make much sense to me.

I just gave in and unhooked my antenna, and subscribed to Dish locals. Yea, $5 extra a month but no issues whatsoever for well over a month and a half now.
 
P

pamajestic

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My experience is it depends on what frequency band the channel is on. I get a very solid signal down to 60 on all of my UHF channels, but start to see drops on the VHF channels in the low 70’s. I use two antennas, one for each band. Remember the C4 is a UHF antenna, just something to consider.
 
SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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My experience is it depends on what frequency band the channel is on. I get a very solid signal down to 60 on all of my UHF channels, but start to see drops on the VHF channels in the low 70’s. I use two antennas, one for each band. Remember the C4 is a UHF antenna, just something to consider.

My C4 was given to me by the president/CEO of AntennasDirect to replace what we thought was a failed C2, which when I did some in depth research found out that the locals were transmitting from temporary positions and at a fraction of power. Once they moved to their permanent places on the new tower(s), they were all in one place and went to full power. Also the reason I went with the C series is that they are Hi VHF/UHF (channel 7 and up) antennas. AD was the only purveyor that had a device that did that. It is not a UHF antenna only. This antenna is over kill for my area and I have more signal that I really need. Also this really became a problem after the L625 update. I also am getting the tail ends of programming cut off now. Never did that before.
 
SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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Had the same issue, error code 002 and I have a DB8 with signals in the high 90's on all stations.

It was suggested to turn to a strong OTA station when this happens to correct the issue and well, that didn't work nor make much sense to me.

I just gave in and unhooked my antenna, and subscribed to Dish locals. Yea, $5 extra a month but no issues whatsoever for well over a month and a half now.

Yup. Gotta locals on the box too. But it works out when there are too many things to record to have "dual" access to locals. It frees up tuners. And the changing channels thing never made sense to me neither and never worked. I get the 739 Error Screen and Macroblocking. All my direct connected sets get 100% signal. The DISH gear seems to be "pissy" about this and not want play right.
 
SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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Unless you are having OTA multipath problems. On some stations I have had momentary dropouts in the 70's. Also don't forget that OTA signals can be very inconsistent in quality. Cloud cover, temperature, humidity, even the time of day can affect the signal.

John

Signals on most all station are 95-100% on the boxes and sets direct. And I purposely went over kill on the C2 so teh C4 is even more so. The really strange thing is this happens on crystal clear nights when it is cooler. Radio waves travel better in the cool/cold of the night. I have line of sight on the towers and we never really get anything that would block it except rain or snow which doesn't really matter unless you a low signal to start with and when you would expect the signal to drop due to natural occurrences, it doesn't. Matter of fact the times that this should really happen, it doesn't. It's only when it shouldn't that I have a problem and since L625. I ran since Sept '08 with no OTA drop out.
 
SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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Upper 50s to low 60s on mine...before antenna upgrade.

The one local that I have most of the problems with comes in at 98-100% and is a Hi VHF (7 on 7). Where another is 9 on 9. I thought the point of the "transition" was to free up this bandwidth? Since I got the incredibly feeble excuse from DISH, I am thinking it's more receiver than antenna. Especially since L625.
 
cditty

cditty

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The 722K OTA module is VERY sensitive to multipath. It took me a lot of careful aiming to finally have all my stations dropout free.
 
KAB

KAB

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The one local that I have most of the problems with comes in at 98-100% and is a Hi VHF (7 on 7). Where another is 9 on 9. I thought the point of the "transition" was to free up this bandwidth? Since I got the incredibly feeble excuse from DISH, I am thinking it's more receiver than antenna. Especially since L625.
You need a highly directional antenna to overcome multi-path, which IS your problem. This one (with no amp) did the trick for me. No change since L625.
RadioShack® U-75R UHF Antenna - RadioShack.com
 
SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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The 722K OTA module is VERY sensitive to multipath. It took me a lot of careful aiming to finally have all my stations dropout free.

I have a 722. Not "k". We have only one place to aim. Most all the stations are on two towers in the same location.
 
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SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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You need a highly directional antenna to overcome multi-path, which IS your problem. This one (with no amp) did the trick for me. No change since L625.
RadioShack® U-75R UHF Antenna - RadioShack.com

Thanks for the link, but the problem is not my antenna. Plus this one is only 14-69, although in the description is says VHF/UHF. In the specs it says UHF only. I need 7-69, ABC (HVHF 7), NBC (HVHF 9). Of which the C4 does just fine and has a 70° angle that grabs Lookout Mountain, where the towers are, perfectly. Like I said, I have great strong signals to everything including the 722, but it is not acting like it. Even though the TV that it is hooked up to shows 98-100% on a direct connection.
 
T

tempVAdish

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Makes no difference if a "K" or not, the VIP OTA tuners are very sensitive & subject to mulitpath. Have you tried an attenuator on the line going to the 722? If you're only 15mi away from the TX, you could even be overloading the front end....

just a thought
 
SandFarmer

SandFarmer

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Makes no difference if a "K" or not, the VIP OTA tuners are very sensitive & subject to mulitpath. Have you tried an attenuator on the line going to the 722? If you're only 15mi away from the TX, you could even be overloading the front end....

just a thought


Interesting. I have the DISH 15db attenuator on the RF output of my 625 not to overload my modulator distribution panel. And had a variable attenuator on the input of my old antenna. So if the 722 series is so sensitive, attenuation might be the answer. I'll have to play around with this. But . . . I watch, night mostly, when this happens and lately have paid more attention to when this is happening and the environmental conditions at the time. It seems to be only at night between 11 and 3 am. I have inquiries out to our locals as to any maintenance or "late night power reduction". I have heard back from three of four and nothing that would qualify is happening. But if what you say is true, increased late night signal strength could also be an issue that the attenuator can address. Hopefully without compromising signal the rest of the time. The 722 is the only device in the system that is having any issues.

In checking signal strength, all stations, including MTV3 Local (surprised me too), are 92-100%. While one our ABC affiliate starts at 74% drops to 0%/Not Locked repeatedly, right now. So . . . it could be a myriad of things. With attenuator inline over all signal strength has gone from (the important channels) 68% to, the channels that you would not expect, at 100%. A major variance. With the attenuator the ABC station is dead and I get the 739 screen that I get at night. TV direct I get 74%. Looks like there is a problem with that station or the box at HVHF 7.

Thanks for the info. It's nice to know. Just as important as threshold. After I play more, I will report back.

. . . fb
 
gdarwin

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In checking signal strength, all stations, including MTV3 Local (surprised me too), are 92-100%. While one our ABC affiliate starts at 74% drops to 0%/Not Locked repeatedly, right now. So . . . it could be a myriad of things. With attenuator inline over all signal strength has gone from (the important channels) 68% to, the channels that you would not expect, at 100%. A major variance. With the attenuator the ABC station is dead and I get the 739 screen that I get at night. TV direct I get 74%. Looks like there is a problem with that station or the box at HVHF 7.

Those fluctuating signal strengths indicate a multipath problem. I went through 3 antennas until I found one that would work with the VIP series of receivers.
 
KAB

KAB

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Thanks for the link, but the problem is not my antenna. Plus this one is only 14-69, although in the description is says VHF/UHF. In the specs it says UHF only. I need 7-69, ABC (HVHF 7), NBC (HVHF 9). Of which the C4 does just fine and has a 70° angle that grabs Lookout Mountain, where the towers are, perfectly. Like I said, I have great strong signals to everything including the 722, but it is not acting like it. Even though the TV that it is hooked up to shows 98-100% on a direct connection.
That antenna picks up high VHF just fine....100% for me. Best to stop questioning/blaming Dish and start playing with your antenna or take the good advice that has been given.
 
whatchel1

whatchel1

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Sep 30, 2006
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Get an FM filter

I just left a TV station that broadcast on ch 9 VHF and there was also a ch 7 VHF in the area the problem is highly likely that you have interference for local FM radio stations. We had all kind of problems w/ that on the ch 9 station that we were broadcast on. It was a local college station that had a 3rd harmonic that caused the problem. This is not a well know problem to many and I found out about it since I'm a member of the Socity of Broadcast engineers and our Mag/newsletter had run info on problems other VHF stations were having across the country. I put one in line at my house and it almost completely cleared up my problem.
 
J

Joe99

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Mar 10, 2009
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Massachusetts
Those fluctuating signal strengths indicate a multipath problem. I went through 3 antennas until I found one that would work with the VIP series of receivers.


Care to share which one worked? Do you need to adjust it for different channels?

Thanks.
 
cditty

cditty

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Feb 22, 2006
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Northeast Louisiana
I have a 722. Not "k". We have only one place to aim. Most all the stations are on two towers in the same location.

I told you what your problem was. It's up to you whether or not you listen.

Multipath is when your tuner tries to tune the main carrier and a reflection of the main carrier at the same time. Doesn't matter where your towers are. Something near you is causing the signal to reflect. Could be a hill, building, water tower, etc...

It does not matter how strong your signal is if you have multipath. I picked a direction that actually LOWERED my signal strength on the affected channel... But it got rid of the reflection too.
 

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