722k crashes -- infant mortality?

ajm80031

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Original poster
Jan 16, 2011
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Denver
Our 722k, which was installed two weeks ago today, 'crashed' twice yesterday. Symptoms were that, when powered on (using TV1 remote), it showed a frozen image of the most recently watched channel and would not respond to any input from the remote or front panel. The only thing it did respond to was the reset button. First time it happened, I hit the reset and it seemed to be okay after the reset. When I turned it on again a few hours later it did the same thing, but this time after I hit reset it seemed to experience another problem while coming up and did another restart on its own. After that it operated normally, and this morning it seems to be functioning okay.

I did the online chat thing with DISH support, hoping they'd be able to extract some sort of useful information from the DVR (or tell me how to do it) to understand why the crashes had happened. Unfortunately all they would tell me was "if it happens again, contact us when the unit is frozen". Not quite what I was hoping for.

I hope crashes like this aren't common for this box. From the forums here I got the impression that the 722k was one of the more reliable ones, but ours is having problems after not quite two weeks of use. Maybe ours is having some sort of infant mortality problem?
 
Also, make sure it is setting out in the open or getting GOOD ventilation. They run hot and heat build-up is the common killer. Don't stack anything on top of it.
 
You mentioned it being when it first powered on. Are you using a power strip? Also, is the TV at the receiver a large TV, likely plasma?

I only mention this because I have seen large TV's draw a huge amount of power when first turned on, and then settle to the normal operating power consumption the TV is rated at. The receiver does the same kind of thing, although it normally "loses" power in the battle with the TV. A power "brown out" condition can happen in power strips and are more likely when using large plasma TV's (I have seen them draw ridiculous amounts of power at startup). The result: The receiver is left with insufficient power to "think" and the box freezes. As the TV warms up it goes to normal power consumption (in the time the receiver resets) and the box comes on and works, until the next time the TV has to power up. High quality power conditioners can isolate the plugs on different circuits to prevent "brown out" conditions between the receptacles.

If you ever wondered why there was such a huge difference in price on surge protectors and power conditioners that is the reasoning right there. A power strip that "blows" when too much amperage comes through runs about $6 and offers $6 worth of protection. Entry power conditioners from renowned names like Monster and Panamax start in the $50's and can go as high as a few thousand dollars. I had a rule at one point... 6-10% of the cost of your gear should be spent in the way power is managed and the equipment is protected. That is an opinion, but should your particular issue continue I would certainly suggest sizing up the way your power is handled to make sure it can adequately serve your needs.

This of course is just a suggestion, and without knowing all the gear you have I am forced to speculate. If the issue is ongoing and you are using a surge protector/power strip on a leased (leased ONLY) box, bypass the strip and see if the issue quits completely. If you catch it soon enough, little to no damage happens to the box. It actually used to be a step in receiver no power, power on/off, and receiver freezing troubleshooting. I personally have been without surge protector on my 722 for more then a year, and not a single issue with regards to freezing, slow menus, lost recordings, or any others to speak of. If you are concerned with a lightening strike, it'll get the gear regardless. You may also want to look into the threads dealing with HDMI connection problems, as there was something there regarding receivers freezing when HDMI used with certain TV's. The issue you are having seems related to startup, and that is usually power related (and not an indication of a power issue, just the management of it).
 
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Anthony, could you please explain the line of thinking about slow menus on the 722 and power strips.
How could a power strip cause days and days of slow menus while everything else continues to work just fine?
Then days of great menu speed for seemingly no reason at all.
Just curious.
 
I have seen reports of slow menus on my type of box (VIP722) and I simply mentioned I have not experienced it with the box plugged directly into the wall. I also have never had it freeze or reset, or do anything else "common" with DVRs in general. Also, my channel changing goes very quickly in relation to some complaints, as it typically takes about a second to change from one channel to another. Long story short, a receiver, like any computer, requires power to think as well as to do. If it does not have that power, or has a limited amount available to it, cannot think or thinks very slowly (in the case of "low" power). Bringing up the guide (a lot of information, especially on a DVR) without enough power can take it a long time to do, relatively speaking. Also things like changing channels, navigating menus, and buffering live TV can be a problem (“freezing”). If you want the long story long, read on.

Example: Laptop computers typically have a power management setting that reduces the amount of power they use when not connected to a power outlet. In the reduced performance mode (typically called "Power Saver") it draws less power. When plugged into a wall, a laptop can run at full tilt because it has a steady charge being put back into the battery. When unplugged it goes to the "power saver" mode (although that can be overridden in the settings) so that it conserves battery power by lowering the brightness of the screen and limiting CPU time (causing applications to run slower). Bringing that back to the receiver, it will operate on less power but the CPU cannot designate the full processor time and power to an application (the guide in your case).

I want to be clear that not all power issues present themselves in the same manner. Some cause hard drives to be inaccessible or "freeze" when buffering, some present themselves as slow channel changing, and some are the slow appearance of the guide. The constant "resetting" of a receiver is also a battle to get more power where it needs to go and it resets "thinking" that that will give it the juice to move past the point where it stopped thinking previously. Again, the myriad of issues that can occur due to low power or a temporary or long term "brown out" condition are not limited to one specific symptom or symptoms in a particular order. Each box deals with it individually with "expected" outcomes (“known receiver issues”) and not "specific" ones.

A little deeper into power limitations, we get to actual power availability. Most modern home power circuits are capable of handling 120V at 15 to 20 amps (older homes are less, as service to the entire home can be 50 amps- I learned from my recent “power” upgrade). Although the voltage can stay pretty close to that 120V mark over multiple plugs, the current drawn by each device is limited by the number of devices drawing power. As I mentioned in the original post, if there is a large TV it will draw a large amount of power (X) on start-up and then require less to continue operating after it warms up (X+ in the event of a similar size plasma). Note: The circuits in your house should run at about 20% (I guess that number depends on who you ask) less then the specified rating for the circuit when applied to continuous loads or the breaker will trip. = 120V is constant (with any luck) and the amperage is limited (16 amps if on a 20 amp circuit). 16 amps needs to power all the devices connected to that circuit continuously. So your TV takes X, the receiver takes Y and any remaining devices take Z divided by the number of devices (no specific order btw, as a larger power supply will generally be able to draw more power then a smaller one). Depending on the equipment, you may have to move devices to another plug to give them sufficient power to operate (and prevent the circuit breaker from tripping). For an added point of reference, coffee makers typically blow a fuse at 10 amps.

Now, toss in a surge protector or power strip. They split the "limited" amount of power available at the outlet and possibly limit that power more to protect your gear from "surges" over a certain draw (sudden increase in amperage, usually "detected" in less expensive ones by temperature). The series of outlets are limited as to how much power they get by the circuit in the strip. A power conditioner isolates each plug and only allows a certain amount of power at each “type” of plug and it is usually labeled what device will plug in where to get the proper power and is usually filtered to prevent noise from one device (DVD/CD players and stereo equipment) from entering the other circuits (and has been proven to improve picture quality in the process). Again, even with a higher dollar strip or a full on power management system, the power is still limited which can lead to the problems described above and in other threads. All of this translates to one amount of power available (X) and a slightly larger amount (Y) of draw required to operate at 100% capacity.

Side note: I had a laugh at this, but if you read ANY of the "instructions" on proper usage of a strip or surge protector device, they actually suggest unplugging the device in an electrical storm (lightening still kills them whether they are the $6 or $10,000 jobbies).

A seemingly easy question to answer and I wrote a novel, yet again, to provide as much detail as I can about possible causes of receiver issues. Sorry for the long-winded read, but I wanted to explain as much as I could rather then just saying “because”. Am I saying that everyone experiencing issues like these are subject to power limitations? Not at all. I am simply saying that the possibility is there and bypassing the strip to give the receiver its own power CAN rectify many situation. Consider it an explanation of the former troubleshooting steps we would use when troubleshooting, and the logic behind them. Hope this makes sense.
 
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