722K + OTA Module

[j_met]

I am currently a DISH Network customer and have been for the past 11 years. My current setup is a 40" Samsung LCD (TV 1), HD-DVD player (for up-scaling abilities only), and the Dish DuoDVR 625 receiver. I also have a 32" Vizio (TV 2) in the bedroom connected to the 625 via coax cable (its about 20 feet away).

TV 1 is connect through a S-Video cable (which is the best method for the 625 receiver) and composite audio cable. TV 2 is straight Coax. Last week I bought a 50 ft composite cable and hook up the second TV that method but saw no video quality improvement.

So my next step was to contact DISH and inquire about an HD receiver. My wife called the first time and they told her it would be $299 for a HD-DVR receiver and $150 installation plus sign another 2 year contract. Luckily she didn't say OK without talking to me first.

So I call them the next day and ask them why they have an advertisement on their site that says "Up to 3 HD receivers for free..." yet they are going to charge me, who has been a loyal customer for 11 years over $300 for 1 receiver.

After some discussion we reached an agreement. They are going to offer me 2 HD-DVR's (722 or 722k...cant remember), Turbo Bronze Package, and Free installation for $53/month.

I am more than like going to call back and go with it (I had them put it in my notes so the next CSR knows the whole story).

I have heard/read a few different places the 722/722k receivers come with a OTA module for receiving off the air channels? True?
(I already subscribe to my locals in SD so they will show up in my channel guide).

Currently I have an indoor Phillips antenna that a friend loaned me and I receive about 7 channels (most in 1080i or 720p some are in 480i but those are the latino stations). I can run the antenna out the bedroom window and pick up about 10 stations which led me to purchase a DB8 Multi-Directional antenna last week.

Edit: Does the 722k come with a built in OTA module? I only watch my local channels so that's all I really care about getting, but DISH does not offer my local stations in HD (DirectTV said they can though).

 

[j_met]

Another question would be can I run the coax from the satellite and the coax from the OTA antenna on one line with the use of a diplexer on one end and a separator on the other end or would it be better to run the satellite line and a different line for the OTA antenna and then use splitters to run to the individual receivers ?

 

[CowboyDren]

First, hardware clarification. The 722 has a built-in OTA tuner, the 722k requires a $40 add-in tuner module. The K model is superior to the non-K, and it's worth $40 per unit to have it installed, as it adds TWO OTA tuners to the box, while the 722 will always have only one.

Second, I'm afraid you have the wrong antenna for what you want to do. If rabbit ears were effective, or any indoor-type antenna, you could have gotten away with a DB2 for a third the cost of the DB8, and a DB2 has a much broader beam width (stronger signal off-center). If the DB8 is up, leave it. If you can still exhange it, do so.

For the third question I noticed (second post from you), it is better to run four conductors; one OTA to each receiver and one lead from the LNB to each reciever. Diplexing is technically possible, but you get mixed results, and the installer technician may not be willing to do it for you, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

You'd need four diplexers and a splitter. The splitter would go to the antenna, and each diplexer would have an OTA input and one output from the LNB, then you only need two RG6 cables to penetrate the house instead of four.

PS - If you post your zip code, I'd like to point you to a better OTA antenna option. Antennaweb kinda' sucks; TVFool.com offers a lot more data.

PPS - Just remember that the 625 is probably the best, fastest, and most reliable DVR that Dish has ever made. The 722 has big shoes to fill, and you won't like it at first. You'll get used to it over time, though.

 

[whatchel1]

$30

The OTA module for the 722K is just $30. The $40 is the price to add an ext HDD.

 

[j_met]

First, hardware clarification. The 722 has a built-in OTA tuner, the 722k requires a $40 add-in tuner module. The K model is superior to the non-K, and it's worth $40 per unit to have it installed, as it adds TWO OTA tuners to the box, while the 722 will always have only one.

When I call them back I will request two 722k receivers and I don't mind dishing out the extra $40 for the dual OTA tuners on each.

Second, I'm afraid you have the wrong antenna for what you want to do. If rabbit ears were effective, or any indoor-type antenna, you could have gotten away with a DB2 for a third the cost of the DB8, and a DB2 has a much broader beam width (stronger signal off-center). If the DB8 is up, leave it. If you can still exhange it, do so.

I don't have the antenna yet, last time I checked it will be delivered tomorrow.....My thinking was yes it may be "overkill" but better than too good of an antenna, than a crappy one.... [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SDV2940-27-Digital-Outdoor/dp/B001K7ID60"]Amazon.com: Philips SDV2940/27 UHF Digital and Analog Indoor/Outdoor TV Antenna: Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31JJd1xP1hL.@@AMEPARAM@@31JJd1xP1hL[/ame] is what I currently have.....and not all of the stations come in perfectly but is "sufficient" until I get the outdoor one installed....right now the antenna is sitting right behind the TV and on some channels will "break up & pixelate"...........I suppose I could just return the DB8 tomorrow if you say it might not do as good as a DB2

For the third question I noticed (second post from you), it is better to run four conductors; one OTA to each receiver and one lead from the LNB to each reciever. Diplexing is technically possible, but you get mixed results, and the installer technician may not be willing to do it for you, but it doesn't hurt to ask

You'd need four diplexers and a splitter. The splitter would go to the antenna, and each diplexer would have an OTA input and one output from the LNB, then you only need two RG6 cables to penetrate the house instead of four.

This is the hard part to understand/explain for me.....I think I will understand better once DISH people install everything and then I can tell yall exactly how it looks and what they used..........Is there a program that I can download so that I can actually draw how I perceive it will be ? (Like a wiring diagram/schematic)

PS - If you post your zip code, I'd like to point you to a better OTA antenna option. Antennaweb kinda' sucks; TVFool.com offers a lot more data.

75645

PPS - Just remember that the 625 is probably the best, fastest, and most reliable DVR that Dish has ever made. The 722 has big shoes to fill, and you won't like it at first. You'll get used to it over time, though.

Can you name some of the flaws in the 722(k)?

 

[j_met]

Stations I Currently Receive

Here are all the channels I currently receive:

7.1 720p
7.2 480i
7.3 480i
19.1 1080i
19.2 480i
19.3 480i
51.1 KFXK -DT 720p
51.1 RF51.1 480i
51.2 480i
56.1 1080i
56.2 480i

 

[pabeader]

625 vs 722k, currently the 722k does not do name based recording. That's it.

 

[cummingsje]

625 vs 722k, currently the 722k does not do name based recording. That's it.

?? DishPass? I have 722K and am successfully using DishPass (name-based recording).

 

[j_met]

Is this how I should wire it up? (Keep in mind all the wiring will be ran up underneath the house in the crawl space.)

EDIT: I think the bottom diplexer should be a seperator ? Yes?

EDIT 2: I'll have a VIP 722k receiver for each TV

 

[pabeader]

?? DishPass? I have 722K and am successfully using DishPass (name-based recording).

I think that's name based scheduling. there is slight but important difference between them.

with NBR if your show gets pushed or runs over it continues recording if it can.

at least that's how I remember it.

 

[j_met]

I recieved my DB8 Antenna last night and put it together (actually put it together and had to disassemble 3 different times cause the directions suck..had some of the bolts backwards, etc...)

It was raining last night so I didn't get to test it outside..........I hooked it up to my living room TV, (which previously didn't get a stable signal strength from any station) and I got about 6 channels right off the bat with the antenna laying on the floor.

I am going to test it out at the bedroom TV tonight.....

I think they put the wing nuts on with a air tool......lol I have permenant indintions in my thumbs from trying to loosen them.......lol

 

[CowboyDren]

Looking at your TVFool report, which has better information than the Antennaweb report, the DB8 was probably a better decision after all. The DB8 will do a much better job of attempting to catch channel 7, which a DB2 wouldn't do well at all.

I almost said something dumb about how diplexers are only practical if you have the antenna near the dish...You can put a diplexer in the satellite feed at any point, but if the antenna and dish aren't close together, it may be more practical to just run separate coax for the antenna anyway.

The big disadvantage to any of the HD receivers vs. a 625 is speed. Changing channels takes longer, loading the guide takes longer, doing a search takes longer, creating a timer takes longer. I also have a set of timers that search for the word "Premiere" inside the program info, and that makes my 722 particularly hard to use. The HD boxes are also louder and MUCH hotter than the 625. You cannot put a 722 inside an enclosed cabinet with the rear panel covered and the front door closed; you'll spend more time rebooting than watching TV.

 

[j_met]

Looking at your TVFool report, which has better information than the Antennaweb report, the DB8 was probably a better decision after all. The DB8 will do a much better job of attempting to catch channel 7, which a DB2 wouldn't do well at all.

If I may ask, why do you say that? (I am not questioning your advice, I am just trying to learn...)

I almost said something dumb about how diplexers are only practical if you have the antenna near the dish...You can put a diplexer in the satellite feed at any point, but if the antenna and dish aren't close together, it may be more practical to just run separate coax for the antenna anyway.

I am going to put the DISH and the OTA antenna on opposites ends of the house (just like I have it showing in my drawing) so I will run separate coax for the OTA antenna and Satellite. (Reason being is that there is a less obstructions for the OTA Antenna on the other side from the DISH.)

The big disadvantage to any of the HD receivers vs. a 625 is speed. Changing channels takes longer, loading the guide takes longer, doing a search takes longer, creating a timer takes longer. I also have a set of timers that search for the word "Premiere" inside the program info, and that makes my 722 particularly hard to use. The HD boxes are also louder and MUCH hotter than the 625. You cannot put a 722 inside an enclosed cabinet with the rear panel covered and the front door closed; you'll spend more time rebooting than watching TV.

Hmmm I might have to figure out something for the living room then.......the place where it would go is closed in the back but is open in the front (basically its two shelves with a particle board backing)............Like how much longer? Are we talking like 3 seconds longer or like 7 seconds?


I also want to thank you CowboyDren and everyone else who has responded for the valuable insight and suggestions!

I plan on taking some pics of the entire setup to better explain my situation...

 

[j_met]

Is this how I should wire it up? (Keep in mind all the wiring will be ran up underneath the house in the crawl space.)

EDIT: I think the bottom diplexer should be a seperator ? Yes?

EDIT 2: I'll have a VIP 722k receiver for each TV

So I take it this is how everything would be connected?

What a combiner? What I need one?

 

[CowboyDren]

If I may ask, why do you say that? (I am not questioning your advice, I am just trying to learn...)

Well, you can see how much more information TVFool has, so I'm going to assume that's not your core question.

The previous image from Antennaweb indicated that you were much closer to the Lubbock (?) towers, which also means that they're farther apart on the horizon. The DB2 has moderate gain (works at up to 30 miles) and has a very broad beam width. The DB8, in contrast, has lots of gain and a narrow beam width, which means more gain at longer distances, but the towers have to be closer together on the horizon. The DB8 and other 8-bay bowtie antennas also work better for VHF channels (7-13) because of that big, wide reflector on the back. DB2s and DB4s rarely work for channel 7 at all unless you're less than 10 miles from the VHF transmitter.

I am going to put the DISH and the OTA antenna on opposites ends of the house (just like I have it showing in my drawing) so I will run separate coax for the OTA antenna and Satellite. (Reason being is that there is a less obstructions for the OTA Antenna on the other side from the DISH.)

I understand your needs. Better to just run from the antenna to the bedroom, insert a splitter there, one going to the bedroom TV and the other going off to the living room.

Hmmm I might have to figure out something for the living room then.......the place where it would go is closed in the back but is open in the front (basically its two shelves with a particle board backing)............Like how much longer? Are we talking like 3 seconds longer or like 7 seconds?

As for noise, it doesn't bother me, but some people really complain about it. For ventilation, it's best to have the DVR up on top of a cabinet for maximum airflow. I had my 625 inside a standard $100 TV stand with a masonite board in the back and a glass door in the front. I removed the masonite, removed the door, and put the 722 up on risers (20oz bottle caps painted black), and my overheating problems went away.

Concerning lag, I may be waxing nostalgic, but I don't remember the 625 having any delay at all, whereas the 722 does. Sometimes the delay is worse than others, especially if both or all three tuners are busy doing something and I try to create a new repeating timer. Like I said, you'll probably just get used to it.

The error in your drawing is that there will be a single run of dual-conductor RG6 running all the way from the dish to your living room reciever, and the second conductor will continue on to the bedroom receiver. Each receiver will have a separator from the RG6 to the Sat1 and Sat2 inputs on the box, and a separator comes with each receiver in the box, so you don't have to buy anything extra.

 

[whatchel1]

1st diplexer?

Is this how I should wire it up? (Keep in mind all the wiring will be ran up underneath the house in the crawl space.)

EDIT: I think the bottom diplexer should be a seperator ? Yes?

EDIT 2: I'll have a VIP 722k receiver for each TV

What's the diplexer right after the dish? unless you are inputting an OTA antenna you don't need one. Is that supposed to be a switch?

 

[CowboyDren]

Here's how I'd do it....

Antenna on one corner, dish on the other. Run single RG6 from the antenna to half-way to the dish, run dual RG6 from the dish to the same point (half way to the antenna). Drive a grounding rod at this mid-way point, ground all three wires on a block here.

As the three leads exit the ground block, one splitter turns the antenna into two leads, diplex one each into the satellite leads (requires one splitter, two diplexers). After the SAT leads have been diplexed, run dual RG6 into the house, along the beam in the crawlspace or up through the attic.

At the bedroom, drop one diplexed RG6 to a dual-F wall plate. Behind the wall plate, install a diplexer, so that one F connector is Sat only, one F connector is OTA only. Run a 3' cable from the Sat to a separator (included with all new receivers), and a 3' cable from the OTA to a splitter. (Total equipment required, one each: splitter, diplexer, separator). You only need the splitter if you plan on using the TV's built-in ATSC tuner; otherwise, just run a 3' cable from the OTA on the wall plate to the OTA input on the receiver. Repeat the bedroom situation in the wall behind the TV (also one each splitter, diplexer, separator).

This, I believe, is the most elegant solution possible. You'd need to provide three splitters and four diplexers, as well as two dual-F wall plates to make it work. You can get what you need at Lowe's, but the installer probably has these on the van anyway.

 

[j_met]

What's the diplexer right after the dish? unless you are inputting an OTA antenna you don't need one. Is that supposed to be a switch?

I thought there was 2 cables coming from the actual dish on the roof (one for each receiver)?

 

[j_met]

Here's how I'd do it....

Antenna on one corner, dish on the other. Run single RG6 from the antenna to half-way to the dish, run dual RG6 from the dish to the same point (half way to the antenna). Drive a grounding rod at this mid-way point, ground all three wires on a block here.

Can you elaborate on how to do the "grounding rod" part ?

 

[CowboyDren]

There are, and must be, two wires from the dish, each terminating at a separator near their respective receiver. There is no way to simplify that wiring further.

Grounding: Drive a 48-ish inch copper rod into the soil near the house.

http://www.summitsource.com/4-ft-6-...round-rod-with-clamp-part-gndrod4-p-7957.html

If there's a water pipe half-way between the dish and the antenna, the installer can bond [ground] to that instead of driving a new spike.