Buy FTA Ku data with Bitcoin - receive with flat dishes?!

[k1cza]

I was very surprised to run across a new use for data transponders, "Blockstream Satellite": Blockstream Satellite: Bitcoin blockchain broadcasts

In short, one of the key companies in the Bitcoin ecosystem is using geosynchronous Ku data transponders worldwide (and one C-Band) to transmit Bitcoin blockstream updates, enabling Bitcoin mining and exchange in places with low bandwidth. For North America, I'm able to get a strong signal on their 123W transponder 12016 H 1000 using my regular Ku dish and LNB. They're also on 113W 12067 V 1000 which isn't as strong up north. In addition to receiving Bitcoin data, you can also bid on transponder time to transmit your own files, up to 1 MB, paying with Bitcoin of course. At current Bitcoin rates, it works out to about $0.50/MB.

What's more fascinating to me is a very wide range of receiving hardware and associated open-source decoding software, ranging from a DBS dish with a common $30 RTL-SDR dongle up to specialized data receivers like the Novra also used by NOAAPort. Most fascinating is the SelfSat IP22 Sat>IP Antenna which appears to be originally designed for TV over IP. is an integrated flat panel Ku antenna, LNB, and 8-tuner receiver powered over ethernet. Anyone here have experience with anything like this? It is very, very tempting to pick one up to see how it performs for FTA video, as it would be much easier to take with me on campervan trips than a 90cm dish and big tripod. If it sucks, I can flip it on eBay to some bitcoin miners

 

[k1cza]

There seems to be very little information online about the SelfSat flat Ku antennas (I won't call them dishes, lol). I did manage to drag up a specifications glossy for the entire SelfSat product line if someone wants to help me decipher it. Most of their models including the IP22 top out at 34dB gain. Compared to a 90cm offset dish with 40dB gain, this is pretty bad, right?

 

[FTA4PA]

I haven't heard anything about this myself but personally I don't think much of it. Bitcoin miners have already ruined the video card market by their insatiable demand for graphics cards with prices rising to ridiculus levels. Now they have found a way to do this with satellites? And are even buying/leasing out transponder space? I can't see that as being good for FTA reception considering the lower and lower bandwidth available due to phone companies buying it up.

 

[k1cza]

And are even buying/leasing out transponder space? I can't see that as being good for FTA reception considering the lower and lower bandwidth available due to phone companies buying it up.

I'll start by saying that I mostly agree with you about Bitcoin. The network design is very primitive and unnecessarily wasteful of resources (GPUs, electricity) for the capabilities it delivers.

But - I don't think there's any shortage of Ku H/V transponder space these days. Cell companies have been buying up C-band, not Ku. From my location I count at least 10 birds equipped with dozens of Ku linear transponders each, and a small fraction of those transponders show up on our blind scans (except for 97w lol). Plus the Blockstream transponders are tiny, symbol rate 1000.

I appreciate that this gives me an affordable and accessible way to transmit medium size amounts of data via satellite. I'm planning to experiment with it for sending unencrypted weather forecast and news data. The receiving side can be as simple as an old DBS dish, LNBF, $100 TBS tuner, and Raspberry Pi. Sending side could be run easily from a small web hosting account.

 

[FTA4PA]

I'll start by saying that I mostly agree with you about Bitcoin. The network design is very primitive and unnecessarily wasteful of resources (GPUs, electricity) for the capabilities it delivers.

But - I don't think there's any shortage of Ku H/V transponder space these days. Cell companies have been buying up C-band, not Ku. From my location I count at least 10 birds equipped with dozens of Ku linear transponders each, and a small fraction of those transponders show up on our blind scans (except for 97w lol). Plus the Blockstream transponders are tiny, symbol rate 1000.

I appreciate that this gives me an affordable and accessible way to transmit medium size amounts of data via satellite. I'm planning to experiment with it for sending unencrypted weather forecast and news data. The receiving side can be as simple as an old DBS dish, LNBF, $100 TBS tuner, and Raspberry Pi. Sending side could be run easily from a small web hosting account.

I can't argue that there are not benefits possible - just worried about far this goes and what resources will be available (or not available) in the future.

 

[comfortably_numb]

If the symbol rate of those services is only 1000 as k1cza mentioned, then they aren't consuming much KU real estate at all

 

[KE4EST]

Bitcoin miners have already ruined the video card market by their insatiable demand for graphics cards with prices rising to ridiculus levels

The impact of Bitcoin mining can be a hot topic, but that is not the reason prices are through the roof on graphics cards.

 

[comfortably_numb]

The impact of Bitcoin mining can be a hot topic, but that is not the reason prices are through the roof on graphics cards.

Chip shortage?

 

[KE4EST]

Chip shortage?

Correct. China banned Bitcoin mining and the market was flooded with GPUs, still the prices are high.

 

[FTA4PA]

The impact of Bitcoin mining can be a hot topic, but that is not the reason prices are through the roof on graphics cards.

Correct. China banned Bitcoin mining and the market was flooded with GPUs, still the prices are high.

Partially agree - bitcoin mining is not the sole cause of higher graphic card prices. Many factors are involved including chip shortages, higher home user/worker needs due to the pandemic, etc. It can't be totally discounted as a factor though since after China cracked down other countries have taken up the slack, including the US apparently.

How the U.S. became the world's new bitcoin mining hub

The U.S. is the second-biggest mining destination on the planet, accounting for nearly 17% of all the world's bitcoin miners.

www.cnbc.com

Bitcoin mining by country 2022 | Statista

Where is Bitcoin mined? China's crypto ban in 2021 significantly changed which country is currently the biggest Bitcoin miner in the world.

www.statista.com

 

[Radioguy41]

Those flat antenna look exactly like what a local company was hawking a few years ago for microwave Internet. It had to be mounted outside pointing directly at the tower (LOS) or no cigar. Winter and the snows & ice came along and by Spring they were boat anchors. Reception was inconsistent and unreliable at best. The general consensus was they were too small. The company folded.

 

[c-spand]

Those flat antenna look exactly like what a local company was hawking a few years ago for microwave Internet. It had to be mounted outside pointing directly at the tower (LOS) or no cigar. Winter and the snows & ice came along and by Spring they were boat anchors. Reception was inconsistent and unreliable at best. The general consensus was they were too small. The company folded.

Way out of my price range.

 

[Titanium]

Been providing equipment to this company for several years. Distribute data on KU in most regions and C-band for a few other markets. Due to the narrow data bandwidth, use a PLL LNB and reliable reception is possible with a much smaller aperture and low gain hardware. BTW... less bandwidth than a single high quality radio service. Definitely not driving up satellite carriage prices.

 

[navychop]

Microcenter near me still limits custies to one video card per month.

 

[k1cza]

Been providing equipment to this company for several years. Distribute data on KU in most regions and C-band for a few other markets. Due to the narrow data bandwidth, use a PLL LNB and reliable reception is possible with a much smaller aperture and low gain hardware. BTW... less bandwidth than a single high quality radio service. Definitely not driving up satellite carriage prices.

I did notice "Titanium LNBF" in the parts list, and was wondering if that was you! The 123w transponder is indeed nice and loud... I'm able to hold a lock on it even with my 90cm dish pointed 2 degrees off at 125. TBS USB tuner is on its way.

Speaking of radio stations and satellite carriage prices... it seems you can get an internet radio stream up on 97w for under $500/month. Exact prices are not published, but this is my estimate based on seeing some online fundraisers. Do we have any more aspiring religious broadcasters hiding out here?

 

[VictoriaFTA]

I haven't heard anything about this myself but personally I don't think much of it. Bitcoin miners have already ruined the video card market by their insatiable demand for graphics cards with prices rising to ridiculus levels. Now they have found a way to do this with satellites? And are even buying/leasing out transponder space? I can't see that as being good for FTA reception considering the lower and lower bandwidth available due to phone companies buying it up.

Bitcoin cannot be mined with graphics cards. The answer you're looking for is Ethereum. And yes, this crypto bull market is awesome. My RTX 3090 has already paid for itself from the mining profits.

PC gaming is the only hobby that makes you money.

 

[Cosmo Blatz]

Those flat antenna look exactly like what a local company was hawking a few years ago for microwave Internet. It had to be mounted outside pointing directly at the tower (LOS) or no cigar. Winter and the snows & ice came along and by Spring they were boat anchors. Reception was inconsistent and unreliable at best. The general consensus was they were too small. The company folded.

I have a microwave setup for internet service at my place in rural Nevada. Works fine 90% of the time. When I'm not in Nevada they put my system in 'idle mode' which only costs $15 per month. In idle mode I can still view my outdoor WiFi security camera and receive the camera motion alerts.