Cable Thickness

[hckyfn80]

When I had HD Directv installed at my old apartment complex, the tech had to (after I signed a waiver) drill holes in the stucco/drywall in order to get the cables from the dish to inside the apartment. He had to do this because the cables were apparently too thick to run under the patio/balcony door.

I've recently moved and am awaiting installation at my new apartment. I'd really prefer not to have holes drilled into the walls again if at all possible. When walking around the complex, I've noticed that HD Dish Network dishes don't use such thick cables. They seem to be normal size and many neighbors are able to run them under their front doors (with some padding placed on top).

The installation at my last place was done in May 2008, so I'm wondering if there isn't thinner cables being used with Directv HD dishes these days. Can someone else me out by sharing their knowledge?

Btw, the thick cables I'm referring to are almost like two cables bound together. It is a "Directv RG-6 OHM High Performance 3.0 GHZ Digital Cable." They connect to my HD receiver (model HR21-200) via Sup-2400 B Band Converter (BBC) Modules.

 

[raoul5788]

Some people use flat cable to go under doors or windows, but I have read it can cause problems with the hd signals.

 

[Daddy Dithers]

Flat cable can be used. Good flat cable (3ghz) will cost a pretty penny ($12-15 ea.) Customers are supposed to be charged for it. Works pretty good in a window that doesn't get opened/closed much. Sliding glass doors will kill it in time.

 

[kjlued]

Cable thickness has changed but there are different sizes.
However, the cables used for D* and E* of the last several years has not changed.

Like said, flat cables are available but I usually try not use them as I feel they can offer problems, plus my cost on 3ghz flat cables is almost $20 ($16.??) a piece which I will pass on to the customer @ $20 ea.
So, if you have a legacy dish you could be looking in $80 in flat cables that could cause you problems or I could drill a couple holes for free and have the install be rock solid.
I can usually get holes in fairly inconspicuous and where they would be cheap and easy for the renter to patch when they move out.

In all honesty the worst thing you can do is run cables under doors or in other places they will get pinched, bent, or kinked.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Sometimes this can be done.

Cut a 2 x 4 to the width of a window near where the cable has to run. Drill 3 /8"(tight) or 1/2" (loose) holes for the cables you need to run. Run the cable in the window through the holes in the lumber you have placed across the bottom of the window. While this will eliminate drilling holes in your wall you will not be able to lock the window.

Also.....sometimes there is an air conditioner in a window near where you have to run cable. Drill out the sheet metal big enough for a cable push-through bushing (3/8" for single & 3/4" for double). There is a lot of space inside air conditioner boxes.

Also, sometimes you can even mount an 18" dish & mast on a real strong AC unit.

There is a reason why apartment installations are often impossible and / or costly to complete. Nothing in an apartment installation is part of the FREE basic installation.

Joe

 

[kjlued]

I always try to do things where the customer will assume little to no cost.
Such as mounting the mast to the floor of a wood deck instead of selling a customer a tripod.
I will give customers options though. Some will still opt to buy the tripods even though it still takes just as much space and I am still going to bolt it down whenever possible.
Same with flat cables, I will offer customers the cables $20 ea or a free option.

BTW, sometimes with flat cables, you can not properly lock the window or door they come in leaving an easy access for thieves which is another reason I do not like them.

 

[hckyfn80]

Cable thickness has changed but there are different sizes.
However, the cables used for D* and E* of the last several years has not changed.

Like said, flat cables are available but I usually try not use them as I feel they can offer problems, plus my cost on 3ghz flat cables is almost $20 ($16.??) a piece which I will pass on to the customer @ $20 ea.
So, if you have a legacy dish you could be looking in $80 in flat cables that could cause you problems or I could drill a couple holes for free and have the install be rock solid.
I can usually get holes in fairly inconspicuous and where they would be cheap and easy for the renter to patch when they move out.

In all honesty the worst thing you can do is run cables under doors or in other places they will get pinched, bent, or kinked.

Are the problems with flat cables performance related (as in potentially compromising HD quality) or something else (you mentioned security issues in your subsequent post)? Also, do you do many apartment installations? If you do, do you have any issues drilling holes for the cables?

 

[hckyfn80]

There is a reason why apartment installations are often impossible and / or costly to complete. Nothing in an apartment installation is part of the FREE basic installation.

Joe

It sure sounds like the tech who did my previous apartment installation (back in 2008) really hooked me up then. He provided a tripod, weighted down with two cinder blocks, and used a good length of cable to run it to from the balcony to the living room and bedroom tv areas. He didn't charge me anything whatsoever. He wasn't the most friendly guy by any means, but I guess looking back now it sure sounds like he went out of his way for the install. I didn't realize that the free installation was so basic and that anything special was chargeable (makes sense though). Ha, I probably should have tipped that guy (is that appropriate?).

In any case, the statement "apartment installations are often impossible and / or costly to complete" only further solidifies my conclusion that the tech who came out the other day just didn't want to even bother (see my other thread "horrible installation tech?"). I mean, the first words out of his mouth were "I didn't realize this was an apartment" (which is silly because the address says the apartment number on it!) and then "I can't do apartment installations." He then proceeded to act like he would need supervisor permission and that he "didn't want to lose his job."

 

[Joe Diamond]

It sure sounds like the tech who did my previous apartment installation (back in 2008) really hooked me up then. He provided a tripod, weighted down with two cinder blocks, and used a good length of cable to run it to from the balcony to the living room and bedroom tv areas. He didn't charge me anything whatsoever. He wasn't the most friendly guy by any means, but I guess looking back now it sure sounds like he went out of his way for the install. I didn't realize that the free installation was so basic and that anything special was chargeable (makes sense though). Ha, I probably should have tipped that guy (is that appropriate?).

In any case, the statement "apartment installations are often impossible and / or costly to complete" only further solidifies my conclusion that the tech who came out the other day just didn't want to even bother (see my other thread "horrible installation tech?"). I mean, the first words out of his mouth were "I didn't realize this was an apartment" (which is silly because the address says the apartment number on it!) and then "I can't do apartment installations." He then proceeded to act like he would need supervisor permission and that he "didn't want to lose his job."

Apartments (MDU = Multiple dwelling units) are not what the small dish systems were designed to serve!

Apartments are wired for cable (CATV) feeds from a single source that enters the building where the cable feed can be grounded / bonded according to electreical code requirements. While it is possible to establish a signal by bolting a dish to a railing or some similar technique....almost every apartment installation violates the electric code, UNLESS the interior cable system is used and the dish is located near the main ground bond for the building. Only in that case can the system be bonded per code.

So the installer is placed in the middle. It is the installer who violates the code and may be sought for damages if the system he installed injures someone.
Directv and or the Home Service Providers do not usually fire tech unless something they did causes a problem. So techs tend to not take chances with the real obvious violations....they do use the obvious need to violate electrical codes or Line of Sight (LOS) requirements to decline time consuming jobs..like apartment installations.

They are penalized for being late for appointments on overbooked schedules so ....something has to go...and it is the questionable jobs that get dumped. There is a long list of reasons not to do an installation and no benefit for the tech to attempt to do every job on the list.

It goes like that,

Joe

 

[kjlued]

Are the problems with flat cables performance related (as in potentially compromising HD quality) or something else (you mentioned security issues in your subsequent post)? Also, do you do many apartment installations? If you do, do you have any issues drilling holes for the cables?

I think it has more to do with the fact that often they go through places that are opened and closed which causes bending and eventually breakage when they go through doors.
In same cases, certain types of windows and doors will not close properly.

I also don't like having to charge for things like that but can not afford to not.
Many installs don't pay $80 so giving $80 away is not in my best interest.

 

[kjlued]

It sure sounds like the tech who did my previous apartment installation (back in 2008) really hooked me up then. He provided a tripod, weighted down with two cinder blocks, and used a good length of cable to run it to from the balcony to the living room and bedroom tv areas. He didn't charge me anything whatsoever. He wasn't the most friendly guy by any means, but I guess looking back now it sure sounds like he went out of his way for the install. I didn't realize that the free installation was so basic and that anything special was chargeable (makes sense though). Ha, I probably should have tipped that guy (is that appropriate?).

Different HSP's are different.
All that stuff may have been provided for that tech if he was in house which meant he didn't pay for it and can't charge for it.
You got lucky but that is just a roll of the dice.

We are allowed to charge $75 for tripods (I don't know why as they are a fraction of that price and there is not much to them.
However, if I charge that much, I usually throw in 2 flat cables with it for free myself (something I do not every tech will).

In any case, the statement "apartment installations are often impossible and / or costly to complete" only further solidifies my conclusion that the tech who came out the other day just didn't want to even bother (see my other thread "horrible installation tech?"). I mean, the first words out of his mouth were "I didn't realize this was an apartment" (which is silly because the address says the apartment number on it!) and then "I can't do apartment installations." He then proceeded to act like he would need supervisor permission and that he "didn't want to lose his job."

I actually find most apartments easier especially those that involve a tripod.
I could do a 4 room apartment HD on a tripod in under 2 hours and clear about $100 after materials.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I think it has more to do with the fact that often they go through places that are opened and closed which causes bending and eventually breakage when they go through doors.
In same cases, certain types of windows and doors will not close properly.

I also don't like having to charge for things like that but can not afford to not.
Many installs don't pay $80 so giving $80 away is not in my best interest.

Kjlued,

We come from different worlds.

The ads I responded to for fulfillment work all said..."All custom charges go to the installer." This was the only way that work could be done when the offered money was 55/15.

It did make installation customers crazy to be told that even though they were entitled to a FREE installation nothing on their property would allow the installation to proceed without "custom" work. Steel pole, concrete, cable dig in, long cable runs, amplifiers, cavity work (wall fishes) and the occasional hang the flat screen or run a phone line.....all that stuff had a price. FREE installations just ain't FREE.

Things are changing...and many otherwise competent techs will not work for the money offered. But the installations are getting more FREE.

Joe

 

[kjlued]

Oh, I agree, all that stuff used to be custom for me too.

I used to be able to charge for all pole mounts.
Then Mastec started supplying 2" poles for high def installs and we could no longer charge for that since they supplied the pole but we could still charge for standard pole mounts.
Then everything for D* went to 2" poles and guess what, no pole mount charges anymore.
Forget the fact that the majority of the money made was in the labor of digging a 3 ft bell shaped hole big enough to put 120lbs of concrete in it and trenching 20ft of cable.
Of course, for free, I am not going to put $15 of concrete in a hole (sorry if that makes me a bad tech, but I do still need to make a living).
When I started with Wilblue years ago, every pole mount was 100% to spec. even if I cut the customer a deal.
Now, sometimes I cut the customer a deal and did it for cost of materials, but I made them dig the hole and trench the cable. lol

We still get to charge for a few things like wall fishes but it is getting to be less and less.
Of course, when I got in this industry it was a far cry different.
Made about $25k more a year, busted my ass half as much, and the cost of doing the job was also less.